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Strongest Non-Smurf Character For Every Tier

His Fate hax is countered by every servant with B luck or above, which there are a lot, so he can't take the spot
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I mean that, if he used his Briah on another member of the legion while Rein was ascended, would his Briah effect them?
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Tubal Cain becomes 1-A when Reinhard becomes 1-A, so his poison gets stronger too.
 
Overlord775 said:
His Fate hax is countered by every servant with B luck or above, which there are a lot, so he can't take the spot
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I would assume that his Fate hax would counter their's. And anyway, that is in universe only, so it doesn't really apply to a list like this even if it does effect. I don't think their basic fate hax would trump the sword that manipulates victory
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Warren Valion said:
What does this mean?

And if she is passively becoming a zombie from being in his presence wouldn't that classify as a win?
Click to expand...
I mean that, if he used his Briah on another member of the legion while Rein was ascended, would his Briah effect them?
No, cuz fate hax
Click to expand...
Reinhard's Atziluth brings the members of his legion on his level of existence.

Tubal Cain's poison effects the other members of the legion when he's on the same level of existence as the other members.

If he is 1-A, then his poison is 1-A. If he's a 3-D being, then it can only effect 3-D beings without resistance.

He isn't a smurf.

And is the fate hax passive?

Because I'm pretty sure Saber gets ******* eroded into a corpse long before she pulls out her hax.
 
B luck counters Gae Bolg, which should be as strong if not better then his sword, since it was described as even better than Gognir, Odin's spear

Also it does apply in a list like this, because there's a lot of servants aka a lot of opponents he can't defeat
 
Overlord775 said:
B luck counters Gae Bolg, which should be as strong if not better then his sword, since it was described as even better than Gognir, Odin's spear
Also it does apply in a list like this, because there's a lot of servants aka a lot of opponents he can't defeat
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Yes, but that is causality manip, not fate manip.

He can definitely still defeat them, it just means he needs to draw his sword twice to win. Their luck will only save them once or twice unless its someone with EX luck. I don't think their luck would trump his fate manip anyway, because its minor fate manip vs major fate manip. Even if it isn't inevitable, they still have to surmount the skill gap which is hard considering he is one of the most skilled servants in the nasuverse
 
Warren Valion said:
Reinhard's Atziluth brings the members of his legion on his level of existence.

Tubal Cain's poison effects the other members of the legion when he's on the same level of existence as the other members.

If he is 1-A, then his poison is 1-A. If he's a 3-D being, then it can only effect 3-D beings without resistance.

He isn't a smurf.

And is the fate hax passive?

Because I'm pretty sure Saber gets ******* eroded into a corpse long before she pulls out her hax.
Click to expand...
I am giving a hypothetical here. I know how Reinhard's legion works. I also know that a good number of the briahs and relics still effect being on the level of a hadou god, so I am suspicious that his suddenly wouldn't.


No, his victory stuff comes in as soon as he draws his sword, and they both starts with their weapons drawn
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I am giving a hypothetical here. I know how Reinhard's legion works. I also know that a good number of the '''''briahs''''' and relics still effect being on the level of a '''''hadou''''' god, so I am suspicious that his suddenly wouldn't.
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Clearly, you don't.

Nobodies ******* Yetzirah or Briah works on Hadou Gods, sans Reinhard and partly Ren. And they are massive exceptions to the rule.

You are probably confusing Die Ewigkeit with Distortions from KKK.

Which have multiple people with abilities that work on 1-A levels, like Habaki's 1-A attack reflection.

Tubal Cain is from Dies Irae, not KKK. He has Die Ewigkeit, not a Distortion.

Tubal Cain is not a smurf.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
No, his victory stuff comes in as soon as he draws his sword, and they both starts with their weapons drawn
Click to expand...
What does this mean?

Are saying he doesn't have the ability that I say he does?

Because that is factually wrong.

Here:

Briah
Tubal Cain Curse: As a member of the Sakurai clan, Kai can use the Briahs of his ancestors (Musashi Sakurai and Rei Sakurai) instead of one standard Briah. Kai is a special case as when he turned into Tubal Cain it also absorbed Beatrice, so he is able to use a total of four Briahs.

  • May sasurahime carry all such taint, shoulder all such malice liberating me from woe and misery:Musashi Sakurai's Hadou Briah, his desire "I want to pass on the curse" which changes others into corpses over a certain area. Their limbs discolor to black and start cracking, blood stops flowing, the heart stops beating and entire vitality expires from the body, with the target collapsing under their own weight. Simply put, it's the ability to poison the entire surroundings.
  • Begone, exile, for the realm of the gods welcomes you no longer: Rei Sakurai's Hadou Briah, his desire "I want to force the curse onto others". It turns Longinus into a cannon, which can shoot out poison at long distances. Like the first Briah, it corrodes and poisons anything it touches.
  • Koko da kuno wazawa imeshitehayasasura itamaechi kuranookikura: Kai Sakurai's Gudou Birah, "I want to take the curse onto myself". In this form, Kai's body becomes completely covered from head to toe in poison, allowing him to decompose anything he strikes while also being having anything that touches him rot to dust (even attacks such as Wilhelm's stakes are unable to pierce through him while this is active). Among the three generations of Tubal Cain, Kai is the strongest of them all.
  • Donner Totentanz Walkure: Beatrice's Briah, which Cain obtained after Kai and Beatrice were absorbed. This allows Cain to gain the properties of lightning, becoming intangible and moving at the speed of lightning in addition to using his previous ability of Kai's. After Kai and Beatrice split, Tubal Cain lost this ability.
 
Yeah in Dies Irae only really Merc, Rein and Ren have smurf stuff, although the 3 commanders have indirect 1-A immortality.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Yeah in Dies Irae only really Merc, Rein and Ren have smurf stuff, although the 3 commanders have indirect 1-A immortality.
Click to expand...
This ^

And Ren's smurf stuff comes from Marie, not his own laws, so even he is kind of iffy.

I feel like people overinflate how overpowered Masada characters. Not everyone is like Reinhard, geez.
 
Honestly people say that everyone in Masada has a 1-A ability but the only part thats really like that is KKK, some parts have no tier 1 hax at all iirc.
 
Eyyy I suggested this ages ago

Vecna should still take Strongest 2-C equalized

Gotta sinking suspicion the D&D Low 1-Cs would take that, and I'm 99.9% certain The Lady takes strongest non-smurf High 2-A.

I also believe Digimon keeps the 2-A spot, SMT has smurfy 10-D Immortality so that's a big nope.
 
Also was Clockwork a smurf? Coz he beat Misogi.
 
also I would strongly disbelieve Ban and homeboy for Low 2-C but that's just a game theory
 
Ah. I guess that is kinda smurfy. Fair 'nuff.
 
In that case... Lurue would be the strongest Low 2-C on the site rn.

Gods >>> Demon Lords (mostly), and Mal is far from an incredibly strong Lord.
 
Gods have better mindhax. Mal is probably more used because she's a better character, whereas Lurue is kinda unimaginative. But she's a Low 2-C god and has essentially the same powers (minus passive Soul/Lust) on a somewhat higher scale.

Also. 2-A mindhax isn't smurfy for a Low 2-C. Smurf refers to higher dimensional hax- 2-A is not higher dimensional.
 
Yes. 's why I didn't suggest them. There are probably 5-Bs/High 6-As that could fight for that spot in-verse but they aren't on here.
 
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