Stomps involving powers and abilities not used in character

[Andytrenom]

I guess if it's a case of not preferring your wincon over other abilities it wouldn't be a "unfair matchup".

But if it's a case of the character's personality actively preventing him from using that wincon ability under any circumstance, it would be an "unfair matchup"

The reason I didn't say stomp btw is because I don't think that word will be accurate most of the time.

 

[Agnaa]

I guess if it's a case of not preferring your wincon over other abilities it wouldn't be a "unfair matchup".

But if it's a case of the character's personality actively preventing him from using that wincon ability under any circumstance, it would be an "unfair matchup"

The reason I didn't say stomp btw is because I don't think that word will be accurate most of the time.

Then we get to Medaka Kurokami being a mix between the two. It's not that she prefers other abilities over her wincon, it's that she refuses to make the first move, and she refuses to use her hax before other options. Her personality doesn't prevent her from using it under any circumstance but it does prevent her from using it under normal circumstances.

 

[Andytrenom]

The second part of the comment is more important, not using your wincon ability under, figuratively speaking, any circumstance

The reason someone doesn't normally use their ability doesn't have to be a thing about taste, it could be because of stupidity, some subconscious trauma anything, as long as it's not a case of "you would rather lose or die than even think about using this ability" it's a viable matchup in my eye.

 

[Wokistan]

This is an example I brought up when this "OoC stomps" thing was brought up before.

Shinobu Oshino has a 9-A key. However, she would automatically transform into her 6-B/5-B key if her bond with Koyomi Araragi were severed, such as if he was killed. She has the power to kill Koyomi in-character, but she'd never in a million years use that as an option to win a battle. In fact, if Koyomi ever died she'd destroy the world in a fit of rage.

Given this, is it not a stomp to put Shinobu Oshino against higher-tiered characters because she could theoretically kill Koyomi Araragi to gain enough AP, even if that's completely out of character for her?

No, since you can restrict abilities that jump tier anyways.

 

[PaChi2]

I have had threads closed because of OoC wincons.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, that's a problem this wiki has, almost nobody has the rules completely figured out, so its easy for a thread to get closed even through there was nothing wrong with it because someone either misremembered the rules or understood them wrong. That and everyone seems to have a different oppinion on what the rules are, plus them changing constantly, so your thread getting closed for unfair reasons might happen a few times.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Pachi's threads get closed as revenge for his Lucius spam

 

[Bobsican]

I´ll go ahead and contact some Discussion Moderators to discuss this issue, as I know Ant really doesn´t know much regarding Versus Threads.

 

[Wokistan]

Vs threads aren't exactly the domain of content mods though, they're in theory focused more on the profiles.

 

[Bobsican]

Fixed the comment, I always confuse the staff names.

 

[Paul_Frank]

It's pretty simple as is

If a character has a wincon even an ooc one it's not a stomp

If they don't have a wincon it's a stomp

Just look at the profiles before making matches so that you don't make stomps

 

[Andytrenom]

Content mods do content, Discussion mods do discussions how do you confuse those two?

 

[Bobsican]

The characters should actually stand a fair chance against each other, with the virtual rate of one winning the other as fair enought so it isn´t just one-sided (aka, "stomp" from not being able to use the wincon in character before just being beaten), at least for my part.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The characters should actually stand a fair chance against each other, with the virtual rate of one winning the other as fair enought so it isn´t just one-sided (aka, "stomp" from not being able to use the wincon in character before just being beaten), at least for my part.

See this is where the problem starts and where the last couple threads went downhill

What defines "fair" in a versus match

Having a chance to win no matter how slim is fair to some, while to others they would rather both characters have an equal chance of winning which would make every match an incon

 

[The_Calaca]

Exactly. Unfair =/= Stomp.

 

[Bobsican]

Not exactly "equal", but rather, say, X character beats Y character fairly because it simply has more skill, but not in a gap of like say, Haruhi Suzumiya Vs. Goku (which is just mismatch really), for example.

As far I remember, the latter was usually more agreed on by staff, but it definitely has to be written somewhere at this point, to avoid further issues of this sort.

 

[Agnaa]

No, since you can restrict abilities that jump tier anyways.

Being able to restrict certain abilities has nothing to do with my question of putting a 5-C against a 9-A and saying it's not a stomp because the 9-A could do something insanely out of character to become 5-B.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Putting a 5-C against a 9-A is a mismatch no matter what

Either the 5-C breathes or the 9-A hax stomps depending on the character so that would be closed regardless

 

[Agnaa]

Well if the character's 5-B then the 9-A just has to do something completely out of character and then it's a fair fight (5-B vs 5-B). Not a hax stomp or an instant win for the 5-B.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Can Shinobu actually do that?

Like even ooc is that possible

 

[Agnaa]

Yes, when Koyomi Araragi dies Shinobu Oshino goes back to her prime.

 

[Bobsican]

That´s obviously and logically a stomp as the character virtually won´t do that sort of stuff.

Then again, the most agreed on idea of what exactly a "stomp thread" is the one that´s probably to be used to update/explain more the Stomp Thread page to fix these issues.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yes, when Koyomi Araragi dies Shinobu Oshino goes back to her prime.

Yeah but araragi isn't in the fight so he can't be killed

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah but araragi isn't in the fight so he can't be killed

They're generally linked together so they can't go very far from each other, but there is one point in the series where The Darkness (Monogatari Series) severed their bond that could be assumed for battles.

 

[Agnaa]

However, the importance of it isn't so much the specific circumstance, just the question of "Is it a stomp if the character would rather die/lose than use the ability they need to not be stomped."

 

[Bobsican]

And that´s why we are here practically having to give a more detailed definition of what constitutes a "Stomp", rather than examples by themselves.

 

[Andytrenom]

"Stomps" aren't what we should be focusing on, there are also other ways of having a bad matchup than one character being insta defeated without being able to do anything.

Borrowing an example from Saikou, if you put a mid godly character against someone with little more than some basic offensive abilities, the match isn't fair just because the character cannot instantly defeat his opponent without effort, it is still impossible for the non mid godly character to win.

 

[Bobsican]

Knocking out the opponent via it running out of stamina is an option most of the time, however, but I get your point.

In that case, more examples should be debated upon?

 

[Paul_Frank]

tie them up and they get incapped simple

Our current consensus is if a character has 0 wincons it's a stomp. If you have no way to kill or incap your opponent it's a stomp otherwise it is just decisive

If a character has ways to beat their opponent but are stopped due to not using it in time it's a decisive match, as long as the opponent doesn't passively kill or incap

 

[Bobsican]

In time =/= Using it in character

For example, are you going to tell me the Medaka Vs. Spongebob match was not stompy? Take in account that it was agreed on that Spongebob knows how to use the page, but simply didn´t use it in character. How the staff took it?

Stomp.

If you´re going to tell me that if the before-mentioned premises are true the match is not a "stomp", then that should be debated upon.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe a new thread should be made?

 

[Ludokresh90]

Stomp threads
A place where people debate Stomps to prevent losses on their favorite characters

pretty much

 

[Bobsican]

This needs attention

 

[Ludokresh90]

Maybe a new thread should be made?

[serious stare]

DEW IT

 

[Bobsican]

In time =/= Using it in character
For example, are you going to tell me the Medaka Vs. Spongebob match was not stompy? Take in account that it was agreed on that Spongebob knows how to use the page, but simply didn´t use it in character. How the staff took it?

Stomp.

If you´re going to tell me that if the before-mentioned premises are true the match is not a "stomp", then that should be debated upon.

This needs attention

 

[Schnee_One]

I don't see why a character gets stomped if they have a viable win con but don't use it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I agree that OOC should not be a reason why a match is a stomp. As I said, even if a character had a 1% chance to win with their abilities alone, it's still a chance. When there is absolutely no chance whatsoever, it's a stomp.

 

[Andytrenom]

My opinion is the same

If the character's wincon is something that he would rather lose the fight than resort to, then the matchup is bad.

If it's something he simply doesn't start out with, then it's valid.

 

[Schnee_One]

^Sora vs Dante is the Latter