Stomps involving powers and abilities not used in character

[Bobsican]

Noticed from this thread, as an example

According to the Stomp Thread page:


The problem in the before mentioned case, is that, while one has wincons, the character itself doesn´t use them in character, and the other one totally does, leading into a matchup with one beating the other with no effort, with virtually no chance to win.
This has been done similarly in other threads, such as this one, and while "accepted" at first, when a staff actually checks, it´s said that it´s simply as too stompy/mismatchy/unfair to be addable to profiles.

In other words, I think something should be added to the Stomp Thread page regarding "wincons" not virtually used in character and the standards of such.

 

[Paul_Frank]

here we go agai

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm just here to see how this is going to end like the previous threads.

 

[Wokistan]

Personally I don't even agree with the notion that ooc wincon means they get stomped. Not using your abilities is a disadvantage just like any other, but it doesn't mean the match would have been impossible for you to win. TO me a stomp is more a match that the character can't win rather than won't win, I wouldn't think that Matt (Epic Battle Fantasy) is stomped by Sigismund due to being a dumbass and never using his hax or something.

 

[The_Calaca]

Gilgamesh's matches where he loses are stomps because he doesn't use his wincons in-character then.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Let's see how this'll go. I guess I'll say that a character simply being unable to use their abilities before an opponent does them in shouldn't be considered a stomp (unless said opponent's power is passive). If a character has ways to win/genuine advantages and they simply fall short then it's just decisive.

 

[Bobsican]

Is this related?

 

[Wokistan]

Not really, no. TMQ's issue is more that despite considering his own death a win in his own mindset, that doesn't just alter how the site works so he still gets stomped by people it's impossible to win against.

 

[The_Calaca]

Not really. That's a misconception with McQueen's powers I think rather than the definition of a stomp.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Matches where the character doesn't start using hax are stomps because they get killed before using it, and matches where they do start with hax are stomps because the opponent gets killed before they could use their own hax; all threads are stomps now.

 

[Bobsican]

Matches where the character doesn't start using hax are stomps because they get killed before using it, and matches where they do start with hax are stomps because the opponent gets killed before they could use their own hax; all threads are stomps now.

Normally such threads fall as mismatches to my knowledge, as it boils down into who haxes the other first.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

"Who hits first" fights aren't mismatches.

 

[Bobsican]

"Who hits first" fights aren't mismatches.

Really? I remember matches that were closed from stuff like that, but I don´t remember the examples themselves, and that isn´t the main point anyways.

Also, if we start to accept matches so long there´s a "wincon" for both sides, matches will turn into stuff like this eventually

 

[Wokistan]

That match wasn't allowed because goku didn't have a wincon.

Also, that's your match. If you don't want matches to end up like that, you can just not make them.

 

[Bobsican]

He had, just punch Spongebob or any attack really.

As for the second part, well, back then I was far more new, so such mistakes are more... normally expected. It´s meant more like an example anyways.

 

[Wokistan]

Thought you linked the casper one, with that one due to spongebob not even knowing how to use the book he's the one getting stomped by Goku literally just moving. Again though, nobody even makes matches like this but you, outside of the fun and games board.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Randall Flagg Vs Hatchworth, whoever hits first, Xeno Goku Vs EoH Jotaro, whoever hits first, Bill Vs Asriel, was a whoever hits first at the time, all accepted and added.

 

[Bobsican]

It has been agreed on already that Spongebob actually knows how to use it, just not in character, which is different.

 

[Bobsican]

"Who hits first" fights aren't mismatches.

Really? I remember matches that were closed from stuff like that, but I don´t remember the examples themselves, and that isn´t the main point anyways.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, Cole vs Thanos was effectively who shoots first and that got added just fine. Goku vs Spongebob is a stomp because Sponge's "win condition" is something he doesn't know how to use while Goku literally just has to breath in his general direction or even just exert energy in his direction just by getting to close.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, but it is relevant to the main point, since if they both can hax each other instantly, but one is more likely to do so, then it might be or not be a stomp, depending of what is decided here.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, but it is relevant to the main point, since if they both can hax each other instantly, but one is more likely to do so, then it might be or not be a stomp, depending of what is decided here.

Fair point.

Anyways, the main problem is regarding the potential stomp territory of a character with good hax but OoC to the point it´s virtually not used Vs. a character with good hax that´s used as the main leading move totally in-character.

The first one not being "able" to use its powers before being stomped, is by definition, a stomp, but that is still up to debate right now.

Normally, matches that go into "who haxes/hits the other first" depend on the likelyhood, like, if the chances are practically equal, then it can just be added as an incon, but if one is more prone to using X, which wastes time that Y can use to deal the blow, then it´s probably an stomp, unless bloodlust is in the line (but isn´t normally).

 

[Agnaa]

This also relates to Medaka Kurokami non-bloodlusted. Who in-character always waits for the opponent to have the first move and only uses hax when desperate, usually going through half a dozen non-hax attacks/abilities first.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, Medaka usually has All Fiction to cover the vulnerability while doing that stuff normally, but she´s also affected in certain circumstances, of course.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not even 100% sure on that one since Medaka turns all of her other passives off. It's never explained if she leaves All Fiction off or on constantly, the only time we see her die is in a situation where AF wouldn't work anyway.

 

[Bobsican]

SBA says at "peak", which should translate in Medaka´s case as simply having AF by default.

You may make a separate thread for that particular topic, however.

 

[Agnaa]

It doesn't make sense to separate AF like that from her other passives which she always has off.

 

[Bobsican]

That sort of stuff is better gone to some Medaka Box CRT, TBH.

 

[Schnee_One]

Stomp threads

A place where people debate Stomps to prevent losses on their favorite characters

 

[Paul_Frank]

Versus threads

A place where people cry Stomp to prevent losses on their favorite characters

Ftfy

 

[Bobsican]

Anyways, assuming the "wincon" OoC is fine as it is, something has to be mentioned regarding it in the Stomp Thread page in the end.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ftfy

Damn, debunked.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyways, assuming the "wincon" OoC is fine as it is, something has to be mentioned regarding it in the Stomp Thread page in the end.

Why?

No chance to retort is fine as is

 

[Bobsican]

Retort?

 

[Schnee_One]

No chance to retort is fine as it is.

No chance=/=An out of character chance.

 

[Bobsican]

How different the gap is needed for the OoC chance to reach into being stomped without being able to virtually use it to begin with? As Spongebob often falls into that territory.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Spongebob is said to not use his abilities in character because of a few things

Half of his abilities were 1 time uses that he arguably didn't have control of

The other half were also 1 time uses but he has never used them to harm someone so it can't be argued he would use them to fight someone or open with them in character

 

[Bobsican]

Mmm... maybe we should make a thread for how Spongebob´s character is within SBA after this in another thread.

Anyways, some measurement of the before-mentioned gap is likely a good idea.

 

[Agnaa]

This is an example I brought up when this "OoC stomps" thing was brought up before.

Shinobu Oshino has a 9-A key. However, she would automatically transform into her 6-B/5-B key if her bond with Koyomi Araragi were severed, such as if he was killed. She has the power to kill Koyomi in-character, but she'd never in a million years use that as an option to win a battle. In fact, if Koyomi ever died she'd destroy the world in a fit of rage.

Given this, is it not a stomp to put Shinobu Oshino against higher-tiered characters because she could theoretically kill Koyomi Araragi to gain enough AP, even if that's completely out of character for her?

 

[Bobsican]

This case really needs to be checked, TBH.

For my part, I really think it would be stompy as it´s totally out of character to the point not even SBA covers it as far I´m aware.