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Sternritter Profiles Revision [Bleach]

I support Tsotso’s proposal, good work!

Also, apologies for not responding to your argument you put a lot of time into. There’s just a lot more stuff I’d rather get into, so I shot forward to the compromise as opposed to continuing the debate. If you wish to continue debating you can hmu on discord.
 
I support Tsotso’s proposal, good work!
It would appear that we have reached a consensus.

Also, apologies for not responding to your argument you put a lot of time into. There’s just a lot more stuff I’d rather get into, so I shot forward to the compromise as opposed to continuing the debate. If you wish to continue debating you can hmu on discord.
Not responding is not a problem. Since we agree on the proposals and therefore don't need to continue the debate, you recognizing the amount of time I put into my post and giving it the respect it deserves is more than enough.
 
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I appreciate the understanding and humility! I’m glad we could reach a resolution without any animosity being born from it.
 
Attack Potency: Country level (Comparable to Bazz-B, should also be superior to the rest of the female Sternritter)

Why is Bambietta being assumed to be comparable to Bazz-B?

Note: Base Äs Nödt is Island level+ because in order for his Quincy: Vollständig key to be Small Country level+, it would need to be at least 4 Teratons, and since the highest multiplier I can imagine being accepted for Vollständig is 5 times, it would make Äs Nödt's base at least 800 Gigatons which is Large Island level+.

We're not using any multiplier value for Vollstandig currently, and I don't think you can backscale multipliers like that either. As Nodt should just be scaling to Large Island level like the others.

capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē

That isn't a statement explicitly for Attack Potency. Nobody has ever said that to "stand atop the Soul Reapers" means that your base form is superior to every other Soul Reaper at their maximum strength.

I think that statement is too vague to use; especially when trying to compare Ichibe to a specific character like Yama with his Bankai active.


My recommendation for Yhwach's ratings would be this:

At least Country level (Defeated Tier Harribal single-handedly after she used her Resurrección. Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as Yhwach defeated and imprisoned him. Easily defeated Yamamoto by cutting him down after stealing his Bankai), possibly Continent level+ (He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and is possibly comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption)
 
@Arc7Kuroi; updated my post with it. I think Tsotso's primary justification for him should make him "possibly Continent level+".

Also, his base rating can be either "At least Country level" or "At least Large Country level". I'm neutral about it being either one because I can see both working.
 
Why is Bambietta being assumed to be comparable to Bazz-B?
Actually I wondered about this myself when I saw her justification but forgot to bring up your question when making my proposals.

We're not using any multiplier value for Vollstandig currently, and I don't think you can backscale multipliers like that either. As Nodt should just be scaling to Large Island level like the others.
I mean, if he's only Large Island level (max 550 Gigatons) and his Vollstandig is Small Country level+ (at least 4 Teratons), then he would have gotten an at least 7.27x multiplier for going Vollstandig. The reason I proposed him to be at least Large Island level+ was because earlier in the thread you said this in response to something else I said:
Since a character needs to be in the upper half of a tier to have a + then base As Nodt should be at least 4 Teratons, which multiplied by 5 (as Vollständig is implied to be comparable to Bankai) ends up as 20 Teratons, which is Country level.
@Tsotso; we don't accept that multiplier for Vollstandig. Not on any Sternritter profile.
This implied to me that Vollstandig is considered a lower multiplier than Bankai's 5x. Unless I misinterpreted what you meant which is possible.

That isn't a statement explicitly for Attack Potency. Nobody has ever said that to "stand atop the Soul Reapers" means that your base form is superior to every other Soul Reaper at their maximum strength.

I think that statement is too vague to use; especially when trying to compare Ichibe to a specific character like Yama with his Bankai active.
The reason I think it could be used is because Yhwach wasn't aware of Ichibe's Shikai and Shin'uchi/Bankai at the time of the statement, therefore the only abilities of Ichibe's he was aware of were:
Yhwach can make that last ability mostly irrelevant by returning his power to himself. Despite being able to do this, he still praises Ichibe as the one who stands atop the Soul Reapers and makes a big deal out of Ichibe having to resort to cutting his power in half, bragging that he "must have feared his power". That statement is significant as it's not actually about Yhwach praising Ichibe's ability to cut the name/power of things in half (which is mostly irrelevant against Yhwach). The implications of that statement are that Yhwach respects Ichibe's level of power, and is trying to brag about his own level of power being high by using Ichibe's level of power as a standard and making a comparison between them with the claim that Ichibe feared how strong Yhwach was. When Ichibe implies he has more abilities in his arsenal and could have done more than just cut his power in half, Yhwach is surprised, meaning he wasn't anticipating that Ichibe would have more relevant abilities than the ones listed above which were displayed before the "atop the Shinigami" statement. And since all of those listed abilities besides the one which was rendered mostly irrelvant are all raw power based, that is the only thing Yhwach could have been impressed by going off process of elimination and him trying to make himself out to be strong by comparing himself to Ichibe. And keep in mind that while all of that was happening, Yhwach had Yamamoto's Bankai in his pocket.

Yhwach can't have been praising Ichibe only because of Ichibe's position as the leader of the Zero Division. Yhwach doesn't seem to care about the Shinigami's hierarchy when it comes to who he respects. He didn't have respect for Yamamoto during the TYBW arc despite him being the head of the Soul Reapers of the Gotei 13. In contrast, Yhwach respected Yamamoto's old self due to his more ruthless nature. Despite them being the same individual holding the same position in both time periods, there is a big difference between Yhwach's respect for the old and young Yamamoto. This proves that Yhwach's respect is earned through qualities, not through position.


If you aren't convinced by this and still insist on Yhwach being rated as "At least X, likely Y", then that's fine too. I'd be ok with that and Arc seems to be ok with it too.


If Yhwach's accepted at Continent level+, his rating would look something like this:

Attack Potency: Continent level+ (Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him. He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and should be comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption, capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)


If Yhwach's accepted at being at a lower tier with an "At least" and a "likely" for Continent level+, then his rating would be like this:

Attack Potency: At least Large Country level (Easily defeated Tier Harribel single-handedly after she used her Resurrección, with Quilge Opie stating that she was no match for him. Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him. Easily defeated Yamamoto by cutting him down after stealing his Bankai), likely Continent level+ (He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and should be comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption, capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)

Yhwach is undoubtedly "At least Large Country level" instead of "At least Country level" due to the following:

From the CFYOW novel:

Gremmy Thoumeaux.

The name of a boy who is reputed to be the strongest Sternritter, in fact, it was said that in all likelihood, no one could hope to defeat him outside of Yhwach.


The above quote is representative of the beliefs of the other Sternritter, indicated by the words "reputed" and "said". Among those Sternritter who believe what was said is Bazz-B, who is Country level to Large Country level in Vollständig.

Bazz-B is clearly not as powerful as Gremmy and feared his power like the other Sternritter, as he was freaking out when he saw the meteor Gremmy made with just one clone.

Gremmy is confirmed to be weaker than Yhwach due to the statement from CFYOW and Yhwach clearly stating he's the only Quincy strong enough to handle Yamamoto's Bankai.

There is far too much narrative consistency between both the novel statement and the manga to deny Yhwach being stronger than Bazz-B and Gremmy, both of whom reach Large Country level.
 
Attack Potency: At least Large Country level (Easily defeated Tier Harribel single-handedly after she used her Resurrección, with Quilge Opie stating that she was no match for him. Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him. Easily defeated Yamamoto by cutting him down after stealing his Bankai), likely Continent level+ (He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and should be comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption, capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)

I can accept this for Yhwach.

I'd also be fine with Ichibe being "At least Large Country level, likely Continent level+" as well.

Actually I wondered about this myself when I saw her justification but forgot to bring up your question when making my proposals.

We'd need to change Bambietta a bit then.

This implied to me that Vollstandig is considered a lower multiplier than Bankai's 5x. Unless I misinterpreted what you meant which is possible.

We don't currently use any multiplier for Vollstandig, we just rate them higher than their base, or we rate them based on new feats if they have any.
 
I can accept this for Yhwach.

I'd also be fine with Ichibe being "At least Large Country level, likely Continent level+" as well.
Very well.

We'd need to change Bambietta a bit then.
The only thing that needs to be changed is her justification. There's nothing that definitively scales her to Bazz-B but she does scale to or above the other female Sternritter, so that justification should remain.

We don't currently use any multiplier for Vollstandig, we just rate them higher than their base, or we rate them based on new feats if they have any.
So you're saying As Nodt should be rated at "At least Large Island level" instead of "At least Large Island level+" because the Vollstandig multiplier can be...whatever? And since all the Sternritter should be at least Large Island level due to being captain class, that's where you suggest would be the most definitive rating for base As Nodt?
 
The only thing that needs to be changed is her justification. There's nothing that definitively scales her to Bazz-B but she does scale to or above the other female Sternritter, so that justification should remain.

Okay.

So you're saying As Nodt should be rated at "At least Large Island level" instead of "At least Large Island level+" because the Vollstandig multiplier can be...whatever? And since all the Sternritter should be at least Large Island level due to being captain class, that's where you suggest would be the most definitive rating for base As Nodt?

Yeah. Either that, or superior to whatever Renji scales to.
 
Yeah. Either that, or superior to whatever Renji scales to.
Renji scales to Large Island level at the time of the first Seireitei invasion, though that rating seems to be for his Bankai and he only fought As Nodt with his Shikai. So that can't really be used to put base As Nodt higher than Large Island level with no +.

Well, I guess he's gotta stay there until the Vollstandig CRT.
 
To sum up the revisions:



Cang Du

Attack Potency:
Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. Cang being one of them]), Small Country level with Daiguren Hyōrinmaru (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable and Cang has trained with it) | Small Country level (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai], broke out of Hitsugaya's ice which froze his base state)


BG9

Attack Potency:
Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. BG9 being one of them], fought on par with Suì-Fēng and was able to damage her), Small Country level with Jakuhō Raikōben (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable) | Small Country level (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai], activating Quincy: Vollständig allowed him to survive after being hit with Jakuhō Raikōben)


Suì-Fēng (Post-Timeskip key which is scaled to BG9)

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Fought BG9), higher with Shunkō, Small Country level with Bankai


Äs Nödt

Attack Potency:
At least Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. Äs being one of them]), Small Country level+ with Senbonzakura Kageyoshi (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable) | Small Country level+ (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai])


Bambietta Basterbine (Changed justification)

Attack Potency: Country level (Should be superior to the rest of the female Sternritter) | At least Country level (More powerful than base), The Explode also ignores conventional durability


Yhwach (Base/Pre-Almighty key)

Attack Potency: At least Large Country level (Easily defeated Tier Harribel single-handedly after she used her Resurrección, with Quilge Opie stating that she was no match for him. Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him. Easily defeated Yamamoto by cutting him down after stealing his Bankai), likely Continent level+ (He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and should be comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption, capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)


Ichibē Hyōsube

Attack Potency:
At least Large Country level, likely Continent level+ (Put up a fight against Yhwach and destroyed his Blut Vene Anhaben, is considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami by Yhwach, who has fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)



Are we all in agreement?
 
To sum up the revisions:



Cang Du

Attack Potency:
Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. Cang being one of them]), Small Country level with Daiguren Hyōrinmaru (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable and Cang has trained with it) | Small Country level (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai], broke out of Hitsugaya's ice which froze his base state)


BG9

Attack Potency:
Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. BG9 being one of them], fought on par with Suì-Fēng and was able to damage her), Small Country level with Jakuhō Raikōben (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable) | Small Country level (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai], activating Quincy: Vollständig allowed him to survive after being hit with Jakuhō Raikōben)


Suì-Fēng (Post-Timeskip key which is scaled to BG9)

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Fought BG9), higher with Shunkō, Small Country level with Bankai


Äs Nödt

Attack Potency:
At least Large Island level (Should at least be at this level [stated by Akon that the Sternritter in the first invasion of Seireitei had comparable to or greater power than a Captain level Shinigami. Äs being one of them]), Small Country level+ with Senbonzakura Kageyoshi (Despite a stolen Bankai being implied to be less powerful than when its Shinigami owner uses it, it should still be somewhat comparable) | Small Country level+ (Should be at least comparable to the Bankai he stole as Quincy: Vollständig and Quincy: Letzt Stil accelerate the rate of Reishi absorption to the user's limit, allowing them to make use of their maximum power as a Quincy [stated by Yhwach that you needed to be sufficiently powerful enough to control the stolen Bankai])


Bambietta Basterbine (Changed justification)

Attack Potency: Country level (Should be superior to the rest of the female Sternritter) | At least Country level (More powerful than base), The Explode also ignores conventional durability


Yhwach (Base/Pre-Almighty key)

Attack Potency: At least Large Country level (Easily defeated Tier Harribel single-handedly after she used her Resurrección, with Quilge Opie stating that she was no match for him. Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him. Easily defeated Yamamoto by cutting him down after stealing his Bankai), likely Continent level+ (He is the only Quincy capable of handling the power of Yamamoto's Bankai and should be comparable to it as Yhwach is most likely always making use of his maximum power as a Quincy due to never using a Quincy: Vollständig to accelerate the rate of his Reishi absorption, capable of fighting Ichibē Hyōsube who Yhwach considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami despite having fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)


Ichibē Hyōsube

Attack Potency:
At least Large Country level, likely Continent level+ (Put up a fight against Yhwach and destroyed his Blut Vene Anhaben, is considered the pinnacle of all Shinigami by Yhwach, who has fought Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto two times, having killed him the second time and possessing his Bankai at the time of the statement about Ichibē)



Are we all in agreement?
Nice job thanks for putting that together!
 
All looks good.

Though I'd re-word this bit:

Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he granted him his powers and imprisoned him.

To:

Far stronger than Gremmy Thoumeaux as he defeated and imprisoned him.

Simply bestowing the Visionary on him is not a feat of superiority.

I'll update the profiles tonight and start the next phase of the revision tomorrow.
 
Damage is applying changes and he’s going to post his issues with the SS’s justifications today supposedly
 
Not today, busier than I would have liked. But I will continue with the profiles and will post here tomorrow to continue the discussion.
 
The changes have been made. This next step is about the Elite Sternritter and characters connected to them. Primarily one of them is Oetsu:

Regarding Oetsu's durability:

Durability: Country level (Did not even faze after cutting his own neck to drain his blood just to counter Askin's The Deathdealing and was still able to move to attack Askin and have a talk with him)

Cutting his own neck and being able to fight does not seem like a Durability feat. More of an endurance / stamina feat. The damage he took wasn't reduced for his neck-cut.

For Askin Naak Le Varr;

Attack Potency: Country level (Comparable to Bazz-B), Unknown with The Deathdealing (Ignores conventional durability)

I think we need a better justification for his base stats. I can't think of a reason for why he's directly comparable to Bazz-B and if it is to do with his promotion to the Elite Sternitter, I don't think we know for certain that the only reason why he was promoted were because his base stats were better. It might be due to his Schrift just being that much better that he was recruited at the last minute.

Also, instead of "Unknown" with the Deathdealing, we just just state that it ignores conventional durability without giving it a rating.

Just starting off with this for now.
 
My only thought for Oetsu would be “should be comparable to his AP via Newton’s laws”

Pre-Auswahlen Askin has like no dura feats either lol, maybe you could backscale him to base Yoruichi since Post-Auswahlen took attacks from her. Or maybe you could say “should be comparable to Bazz, stated that SS are unparalleled in the Sternritter by Liltotto”

Edit: Askin should get sumn like this “Unknown, possibly [Bazz’s dura] (Liltotto states that the Elite Sternritter are unparalleled among Yhwach’s soldiers)”, alternatively since Liltotto made the statement just rate Askin above Lil since she believes the Elite are above her

Oetsu deadass has like no durability feats, I think he blocks base Gerard’s attack but I don’t remember.
 
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My bad.

I think we could probably give Askin a "Likely" rating for being comparable to Liltotto, but then again he wasn't an actual member of the elites until the final arc. It'd be a bit weird if she considered Askin to be an "unparalleled" fighter before then.

Oetsu, I think he just dodged Gerard's attacks. The only attacks he "blocked" were when he split Lille's bullets in two with the sharpness of his sword.
 
If he’s comparable why would he only get a likely? Still if he fought Yoruichi who’s a peer to Urahara I don’t see any reason to downgrade him
 
If he’s comparable why would he only get a likely? Still if he fought Yoruichi who’s a peer to Urahara I don’t see any reason to downgrade him
That's Post-Auswählen Askin who fought Yoruichi.

And it's debatable whether or not he is comparable to Liltotto in raw stats, which is why I suggested the "Likely".
 
My bad.

I think we could probably give Askin a "Likely" rating for being comparable to Liltotto, but then again he wasn't an actual member of the elites until the final arc. It'd be a bit weird if she considered Askin to be an "unparalleled" fighter before then.

Oetsu, I think he just dodged Gerard's attacks. The only attacks he "blocked" were when he split Lille's bullets in two with the sharpness of his sword.
Likely works.
 
That's Post-Auswählen Askin who fought Yoruichi.

And it's debatable whether or not he is comparable to Liltotto in raw stats, which is why I suggested the "Likely".
Whoops didn’t even see the pre auswahlen part. Then yeah I agree with likely too given his circumstances of getting in the elites
 
I think we could probably give Askin a "Likely" rating for being comparable to Liltotto, but then again he wasn't an actual member of the elites until the final arc. It'd be a bit weird if she considered Askin to be an "unparalleled" fighter before then.

Oetsu, I think he just dodged Gerard's attacks. The only attacks he "blocked" were when he split Lille's bullets in two with the sharpness of his sword.
Sounds fine.

Does this look good for Pre-Auswählen Askin's Attack Potency?

Attack Potency: Likely Country level (Should be at least comparable to Liltotto Lamperd who stated that the Schutzstaffel, whom Askin became a part of during the second invasion, were unparalleled among the Sternritter), The Deathdealing ignores conventional durability
 
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