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After I update Askin and Oetsu, I've got proposals for Quilge. Will get back to this thread later.
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Sternritter Profiles Revision [Bleach]
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
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I could see fullbring bankai Ichigo getting an at least High 6B likely 6A based off his feats
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He burnt pre-Almighty Yhwach’s arm, and while that Yhwach wasn’t 100% serious, Ichigo was running on like 0 reiatsu, so I mean fatigued FB Ichigo ~ casual Juha.
Considering Fullbring Ichigo (not even FB Zanpakuto Ichigo) has statements that he’s surpassed his prior self, which is arguably his Striped Mask Bankai self (or his Dangai self if you’re that bold jk). It’s not surprising he’s a beast.
Considering Fullbring Ichigo (not even FB Zanpakuto Ichigo) has statements that he’s surpassed his prior self, which is arguably his Striped Mask Bankai self (or his Dangai self if you’re that bold jk). It’s not surprising he’s a beast.
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Agreed. Not too mention he one shot a sternritter upon entering SS, blitzing multiple sternritter’s perception and blocking attacks from Yhwach as well
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He accidentally obliterated Shaz lol, and in Quilge’s own words “how is he so easily surpassing me!?”
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Ichigo slightly burning a casual off-guard Yhwach's arm with a Getsuga Tensho doesn't really scale him to Yhwach, who was trying to incapacitate and capture Ichigo instead of killing him. And no, Ichigo wasn't at 0 Reiatsu as if he was, he wouldn't be able to use a Getsuga Tensho which is a technique that works by firing Reiatsu.
His Fullbring being stated to be stronger than his Fullbring Striped Mask doesn't exactly support 6-A, as Ichigo pre-Dangai was only Country level at his peak.
Him casually blitzing and one shotting Shaz doesn't mean much considering Shaz is pretty unknown in terms of how strong a Sternritter he is. All we know is that he's at least Large Island level which doesn't compare to Ichigo even if he's not 6-A.
I'm not saying it's inconceivable for FB Ichigo to be 6-A, I'm just not seeing anything which definitively supports it.
His Fullbring being stated to be stronger than his Fullbring Striped Mask doesn't exactly support 6-A, as Ichigo pre-Dangai was only Country level at his peak.
Him casually blitzing and one shotting Shaz doesn't mean much considering Shaz is pretty unknown in terms of how strong a Sternritter he is. All we know is that he's at least Large Island level which doesn't compare to Ichigo even if he's not 6-A.
I'm not saying it's inconceivable for FB Ichigo to be 6-A, I'm just not seeing anything which definitively supports it.
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Ok you missed the point or took everything I said at face value. First I know he wasn’t at literal 0, have you ever heard the term “running on empty”, I was using it in the same vein. My point merely being that, even though Yhwach was being casual, Ichigo was extremely low on reserves and thus wouldn’t be at full power either. I think you interpreted this as me saying FB Bankai Ichigo = Yhwach, which I never said. To correct you Yhwach wasn’t off guard, he sees Ichigo roll into the battlefield.
In hindsight, maybe English isn’t your first language or you just missed my use of “like” to indicate that he wasn’t at literal 0 reiatsu.
Fullbring Striped Mask isn’t a thing, but I assume you mean his FKT Striped Mask Bankai self. Also no one said “he should be 6-A for upscaling his FKT self”, don’t know where this is coming from. Someone said they could “see him being 6-A” but that was unrelated.
True
Not with what vsbw has currently yuh, there’s loads of calcs and whatnot that have to still be evaluated. I don’t think anyone was making a serious argument for it. Someone was just spitballing while waiting for damage to make his proposals.
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That’s pretty debatable upon rereading it fair enough.
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There was one more revision point that came to me a while after I wrote the original OP, and it's to do with how we word Sternritter's profile with the "higher with Blut" for their durability sections.
Now, understandably whenever a Quincy character has a durability feat we can't always 100% assume they were using Blut Vene to defend themselves if it isn't noted (and sometimes the pattern isn't visible even if they are so it is even harder to tell) but I also don't feel great about assuming every durability feat is done without Blut Vene either, so we can speculate that their durability can become even higher than what is shown.
So my proposal is that unless there is a specific case for specific characters to differentiate between their base statistics and their statistics with Blut Vene, we just remove the "higher with Blut" line. This change shouldn't really downgrade anyone specifically, since nobody has a specific rating with just their Blut IIRC, only mentions of them being "higher with Blut".
Now, understandably whenever a Quincy character has a durability feat we can't always 100% assume they were using Blut Vene to defend themselves if it isn't noted (and sometimes the pattern isn't visible even if they are so it is even harder to tell) but I also don't feel great about assuming every durability feat is done without Blut Vene either, so we can speculate that their durability can become even higher than what is shown.
So my proposal is that unless there is a specific case for specific characters to differentiate between their base statistics and their statistics with Blut Vene, we just remove the "higher with Blut" line. This change shouldn't really downgrade anyone specifically, since nobody has a specific rating with just their Blut IIRC, only mentions of them being "higher with Blut".
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Seems fine
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@Tsotso , just wanna point out that while Ichigo oneshotting Shaz may not seem impressive but you have to remember he was low on reiatsu and his body was torn up to the point even Yhwach called him out on it.
And honestly, the only people who were able to take out a sternritter easily were Kenpachi and Yamamoto. Kenpachi was fresh and none of his opponents used vollstandig. Yamamoto, the only other Quincy he killed other than Royd was Driscoll, and Yamamoto was pissed as hell so he wasn’t holding back.
now consider those situations to an Ichigo who was just running circles around a vollstandig Ayon absorbed Quilge. proceeded to hit himself point blank with getsuga tenshou’s and wreck his body trying to break out of a cage even Yhwach said only Quincies should be able to break out of, and then oneshotting Shaz, blitzing multiple Quincies reiatsu perception, and even able to put up any kind of fight against Yhwach is what really impressed me. I think you’re underestimating how strong FB Bankai Ichigo is
Oh, also an exhausted bloodlusted Ichigo was able to do more Damage to the real Yhwach then a bloodlusted shikai Yama did to Royd who’s much weaker than the real Yhwach. And going by the novels where people like Shikai Yama are considered more powerful than anyone there (except Kenpachi and Hikone of course) then that’s also a testament to how strong Ichigo was at that point
And honestly, the only people who were able to take out a sternritter easily were Kenpachi and Yamamoto. Kenpachi was fresh and none of his opponents used vollstandig. Yamamoto, the only other Quincy he killed other than Royd was Driscoll, and Yamamoto was pissed as hell so he wasn’t holding back.
now consider those situations to an Ichigo who was just running circles around a vollstandig Ayon absorbed Quilge. proceeded to hit himself point blank with getsuga tenshou’s and wreck his body trying to break out of a cage even Yhwach said only Quincies should be able to break out of, and then oneshotting Shaz, blitzing multiple Quincies reiatsu perception, and even able to put up any kind of fight against Yhwach is what really impressed me. I think you’re underestimating how strong FB Bankai Ichigo is
Oh, also an exhausted bloodlusted Ichigo was able to do more Damage to the real Yhwach then a bloodlusted shikai Yama did to Royd who’s much weaker than the real Yhwach. And going by the novels where people like Shikai Yama are considered more powerful than anyone there (except Kenpachi and Hikone of course) then that’s also a testament to how strong Ichigo was at that point
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I interpreted your "running on like 0 reiatsu" thing as "he was almost out of Reiatsu" which is why I felt the need to point out how he fired a powerful Getsuga Tenshou with Reiatsu concentration strong enough to slightly burn Yhwach's arm. Also, as Loyd pointed out, when I said Yhwach was off-guard I was talking about when he thought he had successfully incapacitated Ichigo and as soon as he saw the Blut Vene pattern, he had a Getsuga Tensho fired at him.
The things I wrote weren't rebuttals to any claim, as no one had made any claims. I just wanted to make clear what tier the points didn't exactly support.
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Even if FB Ichigo hypothetically was so weakened that he was an entire tier below his optimal state, he would be Country level while Shaz is Large Island level. Still a huge difference.
You mean the only other people, right? Anyways, I don't see a relevant point being made here.
Yes, he was much faster than Quilge, who admitted that Ichigo's speed was the biggest problem for him.
Ichigo was wasting Reiatsu trying to break out of the cage but that doesn't mean he was far less powerful than his optimal state after arriving in Soul Society. Also, as you pointed out yourself, the reason he broke out of it was not because he was powerful enough to break it, but because Quilge's Schrift was designed not to imprison Quincies and released Ichigo once he activated his dormant Quincy Reiatsu.
I already went over why that isn't impressive.
What do you mean by blitzing their Reiatsu perception? Everyone sensed Ichigo's Reiatsu when he appeared.
Yhwach wasn't just being casual. He was holding back to a great degree as he didn't want to kill Ichigo and was aiming to capture him.
I'm not underestimating him. I'm just responding to someone's exaggerated interpretation of his feats.
Ichigo doing more damage to Yhwach than Shikai Yamamoto did to Royd is not true. The only damage FB Ichigo caused to Yhwach was slightly burning his arm with a Gentsuga Tensho when Yhwach was off-guard. We know he was off-guard and that it's the only reason he was damaged because in the beginning of the fight, Ichigo fired a Getsuga Tensho which Yhwach blocked with one hand with absolutely no damage sustained, proving what I said about him being off-guard when Ichigo burned his arm.
Shikai Yamamoto, on the other hand, was able to cut through Royd's Blut Vene and make him bleed.
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I have a feeling we’re gonna go in circles with this lol. You think I’m exaggerating his feats while I think you’re underestimating him. Going by Damage liking your posts I have a feeling he’s gonna agree with whatever tier you propose for them soo yeah, kinda hard to argue when the only staff member in this thread is probably in agreement that he’s not impressive and his opinion is pretty much what decides everything.
when Ichigo used shunpo to get to Byakuya is when Cang Du, Mask and Bambietta all showed surprise with Mask commenting his reiatsu vanished, so yeah he did blitz their reiatsu perception.
You keep saying just because Yhwach was off guard when Ichigo harmed him it’s unimpressive when Yama, literally the strongest shinigami they had on the battlefield was causally split in half by Yhwach without putting up any of a fight whatsoever. The fact that Ichigo was able to do anything to Yhwach is impressive. There’s like 5 people who saw Ichigo fight Ginjo and they and everyone else were relieved when they heard Ichigo was coming to help in the fight, which shows they know he could make a big difference in the fight.
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Any objections to me handling the "higher with Blut" edits first for the relevant Quincy profiles?
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That would only happen if you start repeating the same things.
I merely pointed out why those feats aren't as impressive as you made them sound, especially the Shaz and Yhwach ones.
Have you considered that maybe the reason he liked my post was because it made sense?
Yes, he's certainly faster than them which nobody denied. It is reflected in Ichigo's and their profiles with his FB self being at least one tier above the three Sternritter in both Speed and AP. So I don't see any relevence your point holds.
There are two important things you're forgetting here:
- Yhwach wanted to kill Yamamoto but didn't have any intention of killing Ichigo and was instead trying to capture him.
- Yama was in Shikai (Country level) when Yhwach killed him with intent to kill him while Ichigo was in Fullbring Bankai (Large Country level) when Yhwach was trying to incapacitate and capture but not kill him.
I already proved why the only reason Yhwach was damaged by the Getsuga Tensho was because he was off-guard. Since you haven't responded to that in any way, I'll just quote it:
The only damage FB Ichigo caused to Yhwach was slightly burning his arm with a Gentsuga Tensho when Yhwach was off-guard. We know he was off-guard and that it's the only reason he was damaged because in the beginning of the fight, Ichigo fired a Getsuga Tensho which Yhwach blocked with one hand with absolutely no damage sustained, proving what I said about him being off-guard when Ichigo burned his arm.
Yes, and? No one denied FB Ichigo being strong enough to make a difference in the conflict. That just doesn't support him being 6-A.
My stance on Fullbring Ichigo is that he should remain as he is:
At least Country level (Far stronger than before, as he has regained all his Shinigami powers, on top of his Fullbring powers), Large Country level with Bankai (Fought and overpowered Quilge Opie even after he had absorbed Ayon and activated Vollständig)
As there's nothing which points to him being 6-A.
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- #463
Currently updating the Sternritter profiles.
Regarding Quilge, first point I want to sort out is this:
I don't think there's any feats putting those three Fraccion at Country level (they don't actually have profiles currently btw), nor is it suggested that each of them scale to a third of Ayon's strength. I can't think of a reason why Ayon can't be more powerful than the sum of his parts.
Regarding Quilge, first point I want to sort out is this:
I don't think there's any feats putting those three Fraccion at Country level (they don't actually have profiles currently btw), nor is it suggested that each of them scale to a third of Ayon's strength. I can't think of a reason why Ayon can't be more powerful than the sum of his parts.
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I agree that base Quilge's current justification is wonky.
All base Quilge did against Fullbring Shikai Ichigo was fire an arrow at him and dodge it once Ichigo deflected it with his bare hands.
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I’m pretty sure Bambi and Quilge have a statement saying they’re relative, so whatever tier Bambi is in base would prolly be pretty spot on.
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This chick? 6-B then
Loyd
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Im also eager to see that statement
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- #479
Technically Ichigo's appearance in Hueco Mundo was an unexpected surprise that Yhwach took advantage of.
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So does he just need a justification change and we’re pretty much done with thread?
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