Stamina: A veritable clustertruck

[KingTempest]

What are the minimum required standards for Acrobatics? Or Stealth Mastery? We don't need iron-solid, set in stone standards for the most minute stuff, that just makes the entry level to profile-making way too high and makes all past profiles obsolete for very little gain.

Acrobatics and Stealth mastery aren't measured physical traits with tiers, and we currently don't measure it. You can't have "Acrobatics 4". You'd have "better acrobatics, can do this and that". We actually measure stamina in every profile, which is why they get Stamina: SoSo&So

While with stamina, its a direct comparison between others that varies dramatically between each single person.
Stamina has the length of time that you can fight. The amount of energy you can produce until you're tired. How much damage you take.

Stamina is such a complex concept that it can't just be thought about and slapped on profiles as if it's the same level of importance as the age of the character, it's way too complex for just an abrupt "high" without

I personally disagree with leaving it up to interpretation, but that's just me

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We can have very broad and very simple stamina results TBH

Unknown

Below Average Human

Average Human

Peak Human

Superhuman

Infinite

Irrelevant

Superhuman is extremely broad and would basically encompass every stamina result that is above Peak Human, but is still below Infinite, stuff like that, obviously comparisons of stamina will still mostly be based on actual feats and descriptions, but if we categorize all these stamina's under Superhuman, it's fine

I mean I really don't know what a separation point would be for two categories for Superhuman

 

[RandomGuy2345]

We can have very broad and very simple stamina results TBH

Unknown

Below Average Human

Average Human

Peak Human

Superhuman

Infinite

Irrelevant

Superhuman is extremely broad and would basically encompass every stamina result that is above Peak Human, but is still below Infinite, stuff like that, obviously comparisons of stamina will still mostly be based on actual feats and descriptions, but if we categorize all these stamina's under Superhuman, it's fine

I mean I really don't know what a separation point would be for two categories for Superhuman

I'm not really sure how to feel about this...

Like, someone who can last weeks in a fight would just be labeled "Superhuman," along with many other characters that have stamina that's not comparable.

 

[Everything12]

Honestly, based off all the stamina feats I've seen on profiles and in fiction, as well as how they are used in threadsm just get rid of them. Stamina classifications aren't very helpful unlike Attack Potentcy and Speed, the feats are just too ambiguous and the levels are just too broad to ever be that helpful and sometimes are a detriment. It would be far better to just have explanations and scans in the stamina section instead.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Honestly, based off all the stamina feats I've seen on profiles and in fiction, as well as how they are used in threadsm just get rid of them. Stamina classifications aren't very helpful unlike Attack Potentcy and Speed, the feats are just too ambiguous and the levels are just too broad to ever be that helpful and sometimes are a detriment. It would be far better to just have explanations and scans in the stamina section instead.

I honestly agree.

 

[Crabwhale]

Honestly, based off all the stamina feats I've seen on profiles and in fiction, as well as how they are used in threadsm just get rid of them. Stamina classifications aren't very helpful unlike Attack Potentcy and Speed, the feats are just too ambiguous and the levels are just too broad to ever be that helpful and sometimes are a detriment. It would be far better to just have explanations and scans in the stamina section instead.

I agree as well.

 

[Promestein]

Stamina is elaborate, complicated, and inherently variable. Maybe we can simplify it with some sort of system but why do we need to, honestly? Stamina is inherently gonna be somewhat inconsistent in combat, we're looking more at a range of endurance feats rather than any singular concrete rating. No rating could accomplish what a good explanation with scans could.

 

[Everything12]

As for people saying "if we get rid of what little classification we have now what about pages that just say Very High with no explanation?" How is having this in the section helpful as a indexing site which is used to inform users in a simple but descriptive manner, or useful for compare character's stamina in Versus threads. It would be better if we got rid of the ability to just take the lazy way out with such nondescript empty titles.

 

[Promestein]

That's the responsibilty of the page creator, not the stamina page.

With this said, sometimes you really can't put much in the stamina section. Ratings wouldn't help with that if the character in question doesn't have any notable stamina feats.

 

[Crabwhale]

In case anyone didn't guess from the OP, I'm fairly neutral on the standard term or nothing at all issue. My main gripe is on removing the whole High, Very High, etc. ratings from the profiles. This thread isn't just a standard revision, it's also something to bring awareness to that.

My one proper demand is that the stamina page NEEDS to notify new users that there is a difference between endurance, tolerance, and mental fortitude, as Kru put it above. Moreso than it already does, at least.

 

[Therefir]

Are you suggesting we make them mandatory for Stamina as well?

No, I just think they shouldn't be outright
banned.

However, terms like "High" or "Very High" don't mean absolutely anything by themselves, so I agree to stop using them. I'm fine with terms like "Superhuman" or "Limitless" being used as long as they are well explained, especially the latter.

 

[Promestein]

I can try to rewrite the page.

 

[GyroNutz]

We can have very broad and very simple stamina results TBH

Unknown

Below Average Human

Average Human

Peak Human

Superhuman

Infinite

Irrelevant

If we are going to do it I think this would be the best way. Stamina is less variable than intelligence, we shouldn't have a problem with creating a system for this, but the emphasis should be on the justification.

 

[Armorchompy]

We can have very broad and very simple stamina results TBH

Unknown

Below Average Human

Average Human

Peak Human

Superhuman

Infinite

Irrelevant

Superhuman is extremely broad and would basically encompass every stamina result that is above Peak Human, but is still below Infinite, stuff like that, obviously comparisons of stamina will still mostly be based on actual feats and descriptions, but if we categorize all these stamina's under Superhuman, it's fine

I mean I really don't know what a separation point would be for two categories for Superhuman

bruh thats just my idea

 

[Promestein]

the Intelligence system is dumb too (coming from the person who wrote it)

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Yeah, our intelligence ratings are like, really subjective and a character with better feats in one verse could easily get a lower rating than someone else in another

Stamina and Intelligence basically suffer the same problems

 

[Armorchompy]

I think Stamina would be even more subjective honestly, at least with Intelligence you only need feats in one regard to qualify, maybe you're a complete moron but if you build a perpetual motion machine you're EG, with stamina it's several factors that are unrelated yet cannot really be separated from each other

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I was speaking more in regards to fighting skill, rather than outright intelligence

 

[Antoniofer]

One may compare it with the human condition, with few real life examples, but that's it.

 

[Promestein]

Anyways, I'm willing to write a new draft of the Stamina page with some basic guidelines and ideas; terms to avoid, terms to use, general broad stroke things and explanations of the different facets of what we collapse underneath Stamina

 

[Armorchompy]

Even then it's all over the place. If I sucker punched someone equal to me they'd probably be at a serious disadvantage in a fight, but giving someone athletic stamina for "Was punched in the face once and could still fight without issue" would raise plenty of eyebrows.

 

[Antoniofer]

In order for that feat to qualify as an endurance one, that punch should have caused massive damage, such broken jaw or where the nose used to be, a wound that would otherwise immobilize the typical human due the pain; simply punching someone in the face and leaving just bruises and minor bleeding is not the something beyond average human.

 

[KLOL506]

In order for that feat to qualify as an endurance one, that punch should have caused massive damage, such broken jaw or where the nose used to be, a wound that would otherwise immobilize the typical human due the pain; simply punching someone in the face and leaving just bruises and minor bleeding is not the something beyond average human.

Does getting stabbed in the abdomen or getting shot through the back multiple times count?

 

[Antoniofer]

If those attacks cause actual wounds, and the character is dampened a little, or nor dampened at all due the pain, then it counts as endurance feat. If the character receives a bunch of attacks and those attacks only leave a bunch of bruises and scraps (akin to what happened to DB), then endurance is not notale (I mean, it counts is the attacks caused pain, but it not nowhere near to fight while having some depth holes in your flesh).

 

[Armorchompy]

... but you can even knock someone out IRL without causing any immediate visible damage

 

[Nierre]

the Intelligence system is dumb too (coming from the person who wrote it)

Below Average Intelligence System.

 

[Promestein]

yeah it's not easy for any normal person to take an actual solid, full-force punch to the face and keep on going just fine in a fight

 

[Armorchompy]

tldr stamina is fake

 

[Promestein]

Here.

I'm reluctant to list any suggested rankings. People will just use them in place of good justifications.

 

[KLOL506]

Here.

I'm reluctant to list any suggested rankings. People will just use them in place of good justifications.

Hmmmmmmm, what if they can withstand fatal organ damage but still die of old age? Can you really call it Immortality at that point?

 

[Promestein]

a) That's an immortality question. Type 2 immortality is not Type 1 immortality.

b) Extreme injury tolerance is not Type 2 immortality. FSN Lancer still dies from stabbing himself in the heart, he just takes a while. Zombie Jason is fine regardless of physical injury on account of being undead.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Marvel ratings, I think they're decent.

We'd just have to add a few more levels, but that's a good starting point.

 

[KLOL506]

a) That's an immortality question. Type 2 immortality is not Type 1 immortality.

b) Extreme injury tolerance is not Type 2 immortality. FSN Lancer still dies from stabbing himself in the heart, he just takes a while. Zombie Jason is fine regardless of physical injury on account of being undead.

I see, I see. Aight then.

 

[GyroNutz]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Marvel ratings, I think they're decent.

We'd just have to add a few more levels, but that's a good starting point.

Link doesn't work for me

 

[KLOL506]

Link doesn't work for me

remove the /revision/latest and everything else after it from the link, and it will work.

Usually the "revision" thing prevents the image being properly linked. Annoying stuff really.

 

[Promestein]

The issue with Marvel's system is that it applies to a single form of Stamina. How do we compare someone who can fight for, say, a day straight to someone who can fight for say, 6 hours, but can do so even when under way, way worse harm?

This has been suggested a billion times over the past many years and suggesting it as a solution completely ignores what the problem actually is. Marvel's system is not sufficient for our needs.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

The issue with Marvel's system is that it applies to a single form of Stamina. How do we compare someone who can fight for, say, a day straight to someone who can fight for say, 6 hours, but can do so even when under way, way worse harm?

This has been suggested a billion times over the past many years and suggesting it as a solution completely ignores what the problem actually is. Marvel's system is not sufficient for our needs.

Hence why I said we just need to add a few more levels.

It's not a bad starting point.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Prom's draft looks good.

Only thing I can suggest is perhaps an example or two, for each type of stamina, although it probably isn't necessary.

 

[Promestein]

Hence why I said we just need to add a few more levels.

It's not a bad starting point.

For what? How do these levels compare to each other? What're the levels gonna be?

Only thing I can suggest is perhaps an example or two, for each type of stamina, although it probably isn't necessary.

Feel free to suggest examples if you'd like that. I can provide some as well, at least for injury tolerance.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

The best thing I can come up with is that the Doctor was subjected to his own bespoke torture chamber for approximately 4.5 billion years. He was forced inside a pocket reality with a creature constantly following him only giving him a maximum resting time of 82 minutes to eat sleep and work out the way to escape. He'd come to the realisation that he'd have to slowly chip away at a solid diamond like structure, before having to painfully drag his dying body to copy himself into a machine. Because of his body dying, and only being able to crawl, it takes an entire day to get from the wall to the machine, Every time he realises what has to do, he remembers everything he has done thus far.