Staff Only: Possible Fairy Tail statistics adjustments

[Lina_Shields]

I think that Kuuichigo makes sense here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Question. Why can't the Spriggan be 6-C? Going by Irene's feat? Yes Irene in Dragon Form is much stronger than a normal spriggan, but I wouldn't say she's THAT far above them seeing as she still lost to Erza( Outlier or not it happened and even though she killed herself.). The Spriggans should all be within the ballpark of 6-C which means Erza and any top tier like Cana and Mirajane as well as whoever else scales to Erza should stay 6-C.

Also I understand we don't always accept calcs from OBD. But why now of all times can we not accept it? Why of all times that if it makes since can we not accept it? Just why? It honestly does not make sense whatsoever that now we cannot accept these things in this case.

 

[Antvasima]

We do accept calculations from the OBD. The problem here seems to be that two of their best calcers disagree with this calculation.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

See okay that's what I was confused about. I thought they accepted it but we didn't. Okay then. Also what about my first point?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally think that it makes better sense for them to be 6-C, but if there are no valid feats of that level to scale from, we might have to rate them as "At least 7-A" instead.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Wait we can't just down scale from Irene? Instead of High 6-C the Spriggan could still be at 6-C. It makes perfect sense for them not to be far weaker than Dragon Irene.

I don't understand the "Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's right" comment. Don't we always decide a statistic if it "makes sense"? What makes this so different?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we have wait and see what the others think.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dragon

It means that "It doesn't make sense that they'd be much weaker" isn't a valid argument.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But do we not use that logic all the time?

 

[The_Everlasting]

No?

It's like trying to upgrade Batman to 4-B because he's a member of the JLA and "It doesn't make sense that Batman would be so much weaker than Superman or Wonder Woman".

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. However, somebody has to find the links to the old calculations that we scaled from, and change the statistics accordingly.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

This is a completely different situation. That's like saying a normal human should be comparable to a planet busting dragon due to them being in the same series and said human is a decent fighter(With prep). The gap here is not nearly that large. Like at all. Dragon Irene is easily stronger than the other Spriggan individually. However that is why she is High 6-C. I however don't see why we have to suddenly drop every Spriggan to 7-A at best. I highly doubt Irene got THAT much of a boost in power.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Ant would you mind ScarletFirefly commenting here?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that should be fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Do any calc group members remember why we decided to use the OBD's Brandish calculation over our own?

I think it had something to do with that we were mistaken about the nature of her powers, in that it was later stated that she manipulates the mass of objects, not just their size.

 

[LordXcano]

"That's like saying a normal human should be comparable to a planet busting dragon due to them being in the same series and said human is a decent fighter(With prep)."

That's like saying a normal human should be comparable to a quasar because they both exist in real life and said human is a decent fighter (With prep).

I mean, granted, I know like nothing about Fairy Tail. But just because they both coexist on a planet and one has training doesn't mean they are anywhere near each other.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I know that. I was comparing examples. I mean that would not work for scaling. If it did every human would be like 4-C. I was more or less comparing Spriggan scaling to Batman and Superman scaling and such. Saying the scaling is in two different leagues.

 

[RadicalMrR]

If the gap in tiers isnt large we can somewhat scale.

 

[LordAizenSama]

The quote from Brandish about the spriggan being in the same calibre as eachother was a introduction to the spriggan, further in the arc this becomes heavily contradicted with the direct introduction and comparisons of Irene and August.


While you can use Brandish's quote to justify scaling amongst the other spriggan it does not work with Irene or August. The "well they shouldnt be that much weaker" Is not a legitimate point.

They either scale or they don't scale and they do not. Doing things that way leads to guesswork, uncertain and wanked profiles

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Can't 6-C's still stomp other 6-C's? You are literally saying that Irene in base is over 100x stronger than the other Spriggan.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^They can, look at the Ginyu force, all 5-B but Ginyu is completely superior to anyone of them.

Erza was on even ground and wounded both Ajeel and Human Irene, meaning they should be in the same ballpark. Of course Irene is stronger but the suggested tier makes her 100x stronger in the best scenario, at worst is much higher. Neither of those is comparable.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also going by this quote Zeref should be below August and Irene in which is not true. Just because characters are comparable does not mean some cannot be much stronger than others. It simply mean some are on a higher stage of said tier.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Can't 6-C's still stomp other 6-C's? You are literally saying that Irene in base is over 100x stronger than the other Spriggan.

Like I said above that is not a argument. Authors do not care for that. We go by feats and hard evidence, not guestimation.

For example Ichigos Shikai is Country, and his bankai is at least moon level. That's 10s of thousands of times stronger. Theres even a quote in the series that a bankai is 5 to 10 times stronger than shikai. But do I use it to scale to downscale to his shikai? No because he has no showings to prove he should be that close to his bankais power. It leads to wanked results.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I can agree to Erza hurting Dragon Irene as an outlier. But her hurting human Irene should not be.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Okay. However, somebody has to find the links to the old calculations that we scaled from, and change the statistics accordingly.

Maybe the Spriggan can be rated at 7-A? Mard Geer scales from the CSK, who has a City level+ feat (50+ MT) and Gray said that the Spriggan were vastly superior to anything he felt before (Yes, I know he saw Zeref and Acno, but Zeref never showed his true power to him until now, and Acno never fought seriously there) and should be considered that Mard itself could be 7-A in Etherious Form (Considering all the other gates go from 7-C to Low 7-B, Mard being, what? Twice stronger, wouldn't be outlierish or anything)

Also, Serena defeated the other God of Ishgar (Who were > Jura, who already was City level in the GMG Arc)

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I can agree to Erza hurting Dragon Irene as an outlier. But her hurting human Irene should not be.

She only harmed Dragon Irene via Wendy's Dragon Slaying Magic

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Sure whatever, do what you want. I guess 7-A Erza it is. Because apparently it is too difficult to accept Erza hurting human Irene because everything Erza does is an outlier. It's "Nakama Power" when a FT character does it but it is "Surpassing Limits" when another character does it. Fine downgrade the characters if you wish. Despite us being simply able to place a Spriggan on the much lower end of 6-C...since as I've said a 6-C can sill stomp a 6-C. But apparently that's not an argument. Apparently it's wanking. I guess a second thing I firmly disagree with here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I can agree to Erza hurting Dragon Irene as an outlier. But her hurting human Irene should not be.

She only harmed Dragon Irene via Wendy's Dragon Slaying Magic

How did she harm Human Irene?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So can we all agree to 7-A or High 7-A at the very least?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So can we all agree to 7-A or High 7-A at the very least?

For what?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Spriggans, Erza, Gray, Natsu, etc

 

[AidenBrooks999]

How did she harm Human Irene?

That was PIS because even when she received Wendy's Boosts, Irene was still having the advantage. IIRC, Irene was only damaged after/during the hole "Wendy Belserion" stuff, where she was above Erza even on Wendy's body

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well I think we are finished here. Let's hope Dragon's Cry gives us some Island to Country level stuff.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

City level for the characters listed at "At least Small Island level+"

Likely Mountain level for all those listed at "Likely Island level"

Mountain level for "Island level"

At least Mountain level for Larcade, FDKM Natsu, DS Gray, Laxus, God Soul Dimaria, WSDF Sting, etc.

"Likely Large Mountain level" for August and Irene

"At least Small Island level normally, Large Island level with Deus Sema" for Dragon Irene and "At least Small Island level normally, possibly Large Country level via suicidal attack" for August

Likely Island level for Zeref, Natsu with Igneel's Power

As for Dragon Acno and Igneel: Acno's Durability "At Large Island level, possibly Large Country level" since neither August and Irene can defeat him (And you already saw what I posted for them. Also, Acno is listed 6-B even the statements of "country busting" is for countries of the size of Fiore and even bigger) and since Igneel harmed him, this would scale to his and Acno's AP.

I can impliment the changes (Because I explained the justifications kind of vaguely here, but they'd be better in the profile of course) later. I'll just need Natsu's Zeref's and Acno's profiles unlocked.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Well I think we are finished here. Let's hope Dragon's Cry gives us some Island to Country level stuff.

Sorry, but pretty sure the movie won't be canon...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Based on the new trailer it seems it is. I posted it on the discussion thread.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

[Sorry to break it to you]

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Post it again. It didn't go through.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

August and Irene likely stay the same at full power.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

August and Irene likely stay the same at full power.

That's would kind of f*ck up the scaling

But this calc, would make the characters I mentioned before from "At least Mountain" to "Small Island level", so Human Irene/Base August could be Island level, and the rest of the top tier would remain the same (Except for Acno and Igneel, I already suggested to upgrade them to "At least High 6-C, possibly High 6-B".)