SSJ3 Goku/Innocent Majin Buu issue & Jiren scaling to the GoD's

[Eseseso]

Not necessarily. Beerus could be shook since Jiren’s power is so close to him (all he says is; “Is this really the energy from just one warrior?!”), it doesn’t have to mean Jiren is stronger than him.

And there’s more evidence for Beerus to scale above Broly Saga SSB Goku/Vegeta than there is for him being below restrained Jiren, UIS1 Goku and the others.

Restrained Jiren being close in power to Beerus (since we never found out whether Whis was serious about Beerus < Belmod) works. He could be comparable/equal to Beerus while still being above Belmod.

But what about the World of Void shaking?

That was literally accepted and put in until AKM abused his power and threw a temper tantrum.

 

[LordTracer]

Restrained Jiren being close in power to Beerus (since we never found out whether Whis was serious about Beerus < Belmod) works. He could be comparable/equal to Beerus while still being above Belmod.

But what about the World of Void shaking?

That was literally accepted and put in until AKM abused his power and threw a temper tantrum.

I have no problems with the WoV shaking stuff, I agreed with it in the last thread and I still agree with it now.

 

[CloverDragon03]

But why would Goku and Vegeta scale to suppressed Jiren?

I mean, for SSBE Vegeta it'd make sense since he beat a GoD (Toppo) who also IIRC shook the world of void.

Because Goku (both his SSB and SSBKKx20 selves) could fight a Suppressed Jiren (with the latter being able to stifle him alongside SSBE Vegeta)

 

[CloverDragon03]

That was literally accepted and put in until AKM abused his power and threw a temper tantrum.

Calm yourself. You're letting your emotions do the talking and that's never a good thing

 

[Eseseso]

Because Goku (both his SSB and SSBKKx20 selves) could fight a Suppressed Jiren (with the latter being able to stifle him alongside SSBE Vegeta)

Ehhh, they still got clapped while doing no damage.

Jiren literally glared at a final flash and destroyed it.

Calm yourself. You're letting your emotions do the talking and that's never a good thing

You're right.

I ain't wrong though, I saw the thread.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Calm yourself. You're letting your emotions do the talking and that's never a good thing

He's not wrong though.

 

[Damage3245]

That was literally accepted and put in until AKM abused his power and threw a temper tantrum.

Don't go slinging around stuff like this Eseseso; it's not appropriate.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, from 0:46 to about 3:55, this video gives a good analysis of Jiren's pre-Full Power level of strength, not sure if it'll affect anything but still:

Don't go slinging around stuff like this Eseseso; it's not appropriate.

You're right. I let my anger get the better of me, and I apologize to you and the other staff here.

It's just that stuff like this, especially when done by one person rejecting the will of many others, is so damn frustrating.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ehhh, they still got clapped while doing no damage.

Jiren literally glared at a final flash and destroyed it.

The "just glared at it" thing isn't actually a valid reasoning because that's actually a named attack

Also they were able to hit Restrained Jiren on multiple occasions and could take multiple hits from him. Whis was the one to mention that they'd actually managed to stifle him

 

[Eseseso]

The "just glared at it" thing isn't actually a valid reasoning because that's actually a named attack

Also they were able to hit Restrained Jiren on multiple occasions and could take multiple hits from him. Whis was the one to mention that they'd actually managed to stifle him

That's fair.

 

[LordTracer]

Ehhh, they still got clapped while doing no damage.

SSB Goku traded blows with Jiren for a significant amount of time on two separate occasions, and Belmod specifically states that he senses a rise out of Jiren and he hasn’t seen him like this in a long time, making him stronger than when he shook the World of Void earlier in the tournament.

 

[Eseseso]

SSB Goku traded blows with Jiren for a significant amount of time on two separate occasions, and Belmod specifically states that he senses a rise out of Jiren and he hasn’t seen him like this in a long time, making him stronger than when he shook the World of Void earlier in the tournament.

That's fair.

Also, if I get DDM, since you and Clover agree with 2-C Void stuff and making Restrained Jiren comparable but not above Beerus, would that be the 3 necessary staff votes (assuming DDM agrees)?

Or would we need another?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Again, my vote isn't the kind of vote needed. You need 3 Thread Mods/Admins/Bureaucrats. CGMs are specialized to calcs

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Again, my vote isn't the kind of vote needed. You need 3 Thread Mods/Admins/Bureaucrats. CGMs are specialized to calcs

I still find it kind of lame that CGMs don't count as valid votes on CRTs despite being staff members.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll elaborate my thoughts later but I do agree with Lord Tracer's statement.

 

[Golden_Void]

I still find it kind of lame that CGMs don't count as valid votes on CRTs despite being staff members.

Or retired mods

 

[Eseseso]

I'll elaborate my thoughts later but I do agree with Lord Tracer's statement.

Do you agree with 2-C World of Void Scaling?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Do you agree with 2-C World of Void Scaling?

LordTracer is in favor of the 2-C scaling so I assume DDM is as well

 

[Eseseso]

LordTracer is in favor of the 2-C scaling so I assume DDM is as well

He just wasn't specific on which Tracer statement he was talking about.

 

[Mageman460]

The issue I've seen with the Restrained Jiren being above 3 GoDs is that GoD Candidate Toppo would then scale to that as well.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The issue I've seen with the Restrained Jiren being above 3 GoDs is that GoD Candidate Toppo would then scale to that as well.

I don't see how this is an issue. Some GoDs are superior to others.

The weaker GoDs (such as those 3) would be "At most 2-C" while stronger ones like Beerus and Belmod would be straight up 2-C

 

[Eseseso]

The issue I've seen with the Restrained Jiren being above 3 GoDs is that GoD Candidate Toppo would then scale to that as well.

That's fine.

Nothing says that the GoD's are equal, or that the shockwaves that can destroy universes are the maximum the GoD's can do, since Vados seemed to imply that the GoD's could each survive the universe destruction of 2 GoD's fighting.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

For one, regarding the Buu saga scaling. Yeah, SSJ3 Goku was clearly a lot stronger, he was blitzing Buu and the one punch Buu gave him barely did anything. And he could have overpowered Kid Buu had it not been for the stamina depletion he got upon losing his halo. But Fat Buu is still far stronger than Majin Vegeta upon getting serious and it's possible that Fat Buu might have gotten stronger when it was time to face Kid Buu albeit he was still weaker at the time.

I agree with Tracer that there are plenty of characters who scale from suppressed Jiren including UIS Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSB Goku and stuff like that. And I agree with WoV thing being something that casual Jiren had that would make him above those three GoDs. So most of the Low 2-C's who aren't Zamasu could just have the 2-C scaling.

 

[LordTracer]

Give me a minute and I’ll make a list of all the characters that would be upgraded to 2-C because of this.

 

[Eseseso]

For one, regarding the Buu saga scaling. Yeah, SSJ3 Goku was clearly a lot stronger, he was blitzing Buu and the one punch Buu gave him barely did anything. And he could have overpowered Kid Buu had it not been for the stamina depletion he got upon losing his halo. But Fat Buu is still far stronger than Majin Vegeta upon getting serious and it's possible that Fat Buu might have gotten stronger when it was time to face Kid Buu albeit he was still weaker at the time.

So what do you think is right and thus should stay?

Goku's profile statement that his SSJ3 easily beat Buu, or that Fat Buu can hold his own against SSJ3 Goku?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So what do you think is right and thus should stay?

Goku's profile statement that his SSJ3 easily beat Buu, or that Fat Buu can hold his own against SSJ3 Goku?

Definitely the former. That's what DDM is saying, given how he's talking about how Goku was easily beating Buu

 

[LordTracer]

All the characters here with Low 2-C or At most 2-C statistics would be upgraded to 2-C, assuming this CRT is accepted.

• Jiren (DBS Anime)
• Son Goku (DBS Anime)
• Vegeta (DBS Anime)
• Frieza
• Piccolo
• Android 17
• Kefla
• Anilaza
• Toppo
• Broly (Dragon Ball Super)
• Gogeta (Dragon Ball Super)
• Son Gohan (Dragon Ball Super)
• Gamma 2
• Gamma 1
• Beerus
• Piccolo
• Champa
• Cell Max

 

[Eseseso]

This would be like the lowest 2-C level that isn't just baseline.

 

[Eseseso]

And IMO, as I tried to discuss here, base SH Gohan held his own against Gamma 1, so he should also be 2-C if Base SH Piccolo is also 2-C

 

[Godernet]

All the characters here with Low 2-C or At most 2-C statistics would be upgraded to 2-C, assuming this CRT is accepted.

• Jiren (DBS Anime)
• Son Goku (DBS Anime)
• Vegeta (DBS Anime)
• Frieza
• Piccolo
• Android 17
• Kefla
• Anilaza
• Broly (Dragon Ball Super)
• Gogeta (Dragon Ball Super)
• Son Gohan (Dragon Ball Super)
• Gamma 2
• Gamma 1
• Beerus
• Piccolo
• Champa
• Cell Max

Toppo has an At Most 2-C rating as well.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agreed with 2-C before for this reason , I still do now

 

[Eseseso]

Toppo has an At Most 2-C rating as well.

Didn't Toppo also shake the world of void when he went GoD?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

In regards to ToP 2-C scaling, could Jiren being the heaviest Ki Vegeta encountered up to that point be supporting evidence? Even if in the food fight Beerus/Champa weren't ramped up to their 2-C level, the TOP takes place after a similar scene in the Baseball episode where Beerus and Champa were to the point of literally bruising and drawing blood injuring the absolute shit out of each other.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Didn't Toppo also shake the world of void when he went GoD?

No he just changed the background as if the World of Void was a computer home screen

 

[CloverDragon03]

In regards to ToP 2-C scaling, could Jiren being the heaviest Ki Vegeta encountered up to that point be supporting evidence? Even if in the food fight Beerus/Champa weren't ramped up to their 2-C level, the TOP takes place after a similar scene in the Baseball episode where Beerus and Champa were to the point of literally bruising and drawing blood beating the shit out of each other.

Using Beerus and Champa as scaling measure for this was something I tried with Fused Zamasu before but it was rejected

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Using Beerus and Champa as scaling measure for this was something I tried with Fused Zamasu before but it was rejected

Well yeah, but that was the food fight from the U6 Arc. I'm referring to a 2nd iteration of the fight that happens after the Zamasu Arc where's a lot less ambiguity to whether they were ramped up or serious enough.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well yeah, but that was the food fight from the U6 Arc. I'm referring to a 2nd iteration of the fight that happens after the Zamasu Arc where's a lot less ambiguity to whether they were ramped up or serious enough.

That could potentially work, yeah

 

[LordTracer]

Toppo has an At Most 2-C rating as well.

Oh yeah, I forgot about him.

 

[BlastX]

I get the feeling this is gonna gonna get through only to immediately be reversed again like last time.

 

[Eseseso]

I get the feeling this is gonna gonna get through only to immediately be reversed again like last time.

No, because this time people are going to follow the rules.

If anyone has issues once the CRT is put in and closed, they should make a counter CRT to reject it.