Sora Vs Shulk 2: Electric Boogaloo (Top 5 non-smurf 2-A)

[Bobsican]

Both at 2-A, speed equalized

Sora

Shulk

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Alrighty so get the points from the last thread done and dusted.

*Shulk's precog lets him know of what Sora is going to do before Sora is even going to do it along with knowing what he would need to do in order to win.

*Shulk resists Sora's fate hax and uno reverses him with his own, which prevents Sora from killing or perma incapping Shulk.

*Shulk is capable of incapping Sora through hax such as sleep hax for example (as Sora's profile and other pages do not have it as a resistance unless it is KH3D but I'm assuming this is KH3 Sora)

*Sora has no way of dealing with Alvis (i don't think Sora can even affect him given you need hella buff conceptual NPI to do so given how ether concentration works).

*Alvis also grants Shulk High-Godly and type 8 negation which gives Shulk the ability to actually kill Sora if needs be (though given his precog and retrocog he'd likely prefer incap but isn't against killing).

*Alvis through the use of his fate hax could make it fated for Sora to die which is a shown use of it. This would affect Sora even if we give him the Type 4 Acausality from the Keyblade (even though its limited but lets ignore that for the sake of the argument) given how the fate hax effects even type 2 and 4 acausality users.

*Shulk also has access to resistance negation which Sora lacks a resistance to according to his page and the 3 other pages I read through, allowing for Shulk bypass Sora's other resistances such as power null, paralysis, etc.

And this is what I thought of from the top of my head with all of these being stuff that doesn't need Shulk's Reactive Evolution to do.


Bonus point, Shulk got a yoshi version. Checkmate.

 

[Lynieryz]

Hulk FRA

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Literally two posts in and the freaking train already arrived? Bruh

 

[JoshSSJGod]

lmao, that was fast

 

[Lynieryz]

FRA Train is immeasurable to even immeasurable with only one being comparable to it: Truck-Kun

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Just to be sure, SBA has this be KH3 Sora correct?

 

[Bobsican]

Just to be sure, SBA has this be KH3 Sora correct?

That'd be the case per SBA, yes

Anyways...

Alrighty so get the points from the last thread done and dusted.

*Shulk's precog lets him know of what Sora is going to do before Sora is even going to do it along with knowing what he would need to do in order to win.

Knowning that isn't going to be of much help if he still has limited alternatives to what Sora can do, note how Shulk shines more intelligence-wise on academic/technological fields over combat ones, but knowning what'd be his wincons is still a point in his favor.

*Shulk resists Sora's fate hax and uno reverses him with his own, which prevents Sora from killing or perma incapping Shulk.

Fair I guess

*Shulk is capable of incapping Sora through hax such as sleep hax for example (as Sora's profile and other pages do not have it as a resistance unless it is KH3D but I'm assuming this is KH3 Sora)

Going by this, sleep manip isn't a viable way to incap as it wears off within a reasonable timeframe.

*Sora has no way of dealing with Alvis (i don't think Sora can even affect him given you need hella buff conceptual NPI to do so given how ether concentration works).

Can you explain on this area? Would he require direct 2-A nuking on a conceptual scale for that, or...?

*Alvis also grants Shulk High-Godly and type 8 negation which gives Shulk the ability to actually kill Sora if needs be (though given his precog and retrocog he'd likely prefer incap but isn't against killing).

Going by how this CRT is going, I don't think so, I'm afraid.

*Alvis through the use of his fate hax could make it fated for Sora to die which is a shown use of it. This would affect Sora even if we give him the Type 4 Acausality from the Keyblade (even though its limited but lets ignore that for the sake of the argument) given how the fate hax effects even type 2 and 4 acausality users.

Type 8 High-Godly just keeps kicking in per the above

*Shulk also has access to resistance negation which Sora lacks a resistance to according to his page and the 3 other pages I read through, allowing for Shulk bypass Sora's other resistances such as power null, paralysis, etc.

He has 1 ResNeg layer (and 27 regular layers, that much was accepted here), I just have yet to get the time to update the pages properly

And this is what I thought of from the top of my head with all of these being stuff that doesn't need Shulk's Reactive Evolution to do.


Bonus point, Shulk got a yoshi version. Checkmate.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Knowning that isn't going to be of much help if he still has limited alternatives to what Sora can do, note how Shulk shines more intelligence-wise on academic/technological fields over combat ones, but knowning what'd be his wincons is still a point in his favor.

Knowing of what Sora can do allows for Shulk to plan around them and know when Sora tries to be tricky. Its more of a point than you're giving it credit for.

Going by this, sleep manip isn't a viable way to incap as it wears off within a reasonable timeframe.

That timers there are for enemies (that is why there is no duration for allies use of it). The sleep that Shulk makes use of has it so the enemies do not wake up unless attacked with it actually being a good way to crowd control.

Can you explain on this area? Would he require direct 2-A nuking on a conceptual scale for that, or...?

Its weird but you'd have to match his ether concentration in order to hit him. Shulk had the same issue when encountering the Fog King who is a similar case when he could hit the Fog Beasts just fine. While not a literal example imagine it like shooting water at a water monster and the water you shot goes through it like a ghost. Its weird but basically need heavily layered conceptual NPI to hit 'em.

Going by how this CRT is going, I don't think so, I'm afraid.

What?? Bob you do know those have nothing to do with the RE since Alvis just has those abilities, right? They're entirely separate things with Alvis even having it before the RE was even a thing for XB.

Type 8 High-Godly just keeps kicking in per the above

Again, Alvis naturally has High Godly and type 8 negation. Ain't gonna be an issue.

He has 1 ResNeg layer (and 27 regular layers, that much was accepted here), I just have yet to get the time to update the pages properly

Then go do that or they can't be used since you cannot use what it not on the profile.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Might as well do this to save time Shulk FRA

 

[Mariogoods]

Shulk FRA

 

[Luckyfun]

Shulk FRA

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Current count

Shulk: 4 (Myself, Lynieryx, Mariogoods and Luckyfun)

Sora: 0

Incon: 0

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

This thread only just started yesterday, and already you're all piling on for Shulk votes. Aren't you guys being a little impatient? Bob has to go apply the overdue changes to Sora's profile since you insisted to only use what's on the profiles.
There's no need to rush the thread under the false guise of saving time, man. If he makes a rebuttal that makes 0 sense or something, then sure, vote ahead, but dude hasn't been given the chance to properly respond to the recent argument before everyone's suddenly getting on aboard the Train.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Shulk FRA

 

[ThanatosX]

Isn't the "High Godly Negation" in Alvis' profile only a "possibly"? How do we treat it in cases like this?
Anyways, I will say that at the moment I am more leaning towards Shulk winning, but please don't count my vote yet. I think it's fair to wait for rebuttals before mass-voting, so I will wait before giving my final vote, althought I think Shulk might take this.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

"Regeneration Negation (Low Godly, Possibly High Godly)" (Wow, finding that profile was a pain...)

 

[ThanatosX]

"Regeneration Negation (Low Godly, Possibly High Godly)" (Wow, finding that profile was a pain...)

Yes, that part.
In a SBA situation, are all the "Possibly" assumed to apply regardless or do they not apply?

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

"Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version."

... I'm sure people are going to specifically use this to justify the possibly rating
Though
We can't certify if that rating is really canon following our standards if it's only possible that it reaches High Godly

 

[ThanatosX]

"Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version."

... I'm sure people are going to specifically use this to justify the possibly rating
Though
We can't certify if that rating is really canon following our standards if it's only possible that it reaches High Godly

Yeah, a description to his High-Godly Negation would help to understand how that works, considering that there isn't one in the profile.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

I would say that until further clarification is provided (Ideally, by a trusted admin/staff member) on how to handle that, or until a proper explanation that fits with High-Godly is provided, we should assume it is Low-Godly.

 

[ThanatosX]

If it is Low-Godly, than I would be more leaning towards Inconclusive. But I will wait for some explanation on how it works and if the "Possibly" are applied in SBA before giving my vote.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

If it is Low-Godly, than I would be more leaning towards Inconclusive. But I will wait for some explanation on how it works and if the "Possibly" are applied in SBA before giving my vote.

Basically in SBA it assumes the characters are at their strongest with these possibly ratings being used. Since they are possibly however the OP is capable of disallowing them just like likely/possibly higher tiers though in a thread like this for top ratings its usually looked down upon.

 

[ThanatosX]

Basically in SBA it assumes the characters are at their strongest with these possibly ratings being used. Since they are possibly however the OP is capable of disallowing them just like likely/possibly higher tiers though in a thread like this for top ratings its usually looked down upon.

And how does his High-Godly Negation works, exactly?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

And how does his High-Godly Negation works, exactly?

Pretty standard, its built into attacks and when used the character Malos he was unable to regenerate from his injuries. Imagine stuff like Vampire Killer from Castlevania and that is basically it.

 

[ThanatosX]

Pretty standard, its built into attacks and when used the character Malos he was unable to regenerate from his injuries. Imagine stuff like Vampire Killer from Castlevania and that is basically it.

Thanks for the explanation!
Malos' Regeneration is listed as Limited, but I guess it should still be enough to deal with Sora's Regen? I don't know, for now I prefer to stay neutral, even thought I believe Shulk have more chances of victory overall. But my vote is still not definitive, so don't count it yet, for now.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Thanks for the explanation!
Malos' Regeneration is listed as Limited, but I guess it should still be enough to deal with Sora's Regen? I don't know, for now I prefer to stay neutral, even thought I believe Shulk have more chances of victory overall. But my vote is still not definitive, so don't count it yet, for now.

No problem. And yeah it should, its limited in the sense of when he does it at that level he loses some abilities as evident by him losing his own monado. Though the higher tiers have workarounds to this.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

bump

 

[Bobsican]

I'm still preparing some stuff, I'll reply properly in a few hours.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Shulk FRA

 

[Theglassman12]

Shulk should win this for the reasons stated above, don’t really see what Sora can do to combat his precognition or Alvis in general.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Aaaaand that's grace.

 

[Bobsican]

Knowing of what Sora can do allows for Shulk to plan around them and know when Sora tries to be tricky. Its more of a point than you're giving it credit for.

Thing is Sora is pretty flexible and knowning what he'll do doesn't inherently mean, say, "Shulk will dodge everything and perfectly catch openings", it's still useful and all, but I wanted to make that part clear, especially given Shulk's overall lower combat skill.

That timers there are for enemies (that is why there is no duration for allies use of it). The sleep that Shulk makes use of has it so the enemies do not wake up unless attacked with it actually being a good way to crowd control.

How Shulk inflicts this, again?

Its weird but you'd have to match his ether concentration in order to hit him. Shulk had the same issue when encountering the Fog King who is a similar case when he could hit the Fog Beasts just fine. While not a literal example imagine it like shooting water at a water monster and the water you shot goes through it like a ghost. Its weird but basically need heavily layered conceptual NPI to hit 'em.

Heavily layered? It sounds just one level above baseline, even then Sora doesn't really have an answer to this at the moment.

What?? Bob you do know those have nothing to do with the RE since Alvis just has those abilities, right? They're entirely separate things with Alvis even having it before the RE was even a thing for XB.

Oh, I see now, although it has no justification, not even the CRT that added that explains it, at it just directly proposed the changes, and of course there's no explanation over there either. Can you explain how it exactly works, and how it's even "possibly" High-Godly negation?

Again, Alvis naturally has High Godly and type 8 negation. Ain't gonna be an issue.

See above.

Then go do that or they can't be used since you cannot use what it not on the profile.

Fine... Eh, this will take way longer than anticipated, so may as well give Shulk the W for now.
However, this is a mismatch as Sora has no real wincon as far I can see (both combatants require a somewhat reasonable wincon for a match to be valid), at least currently, I'd still appreciate an answer to some of the concerns mentioned above for posterity, however.

 

[Deceived3596]

Bob got hit with the goon FRA train.

Sad to see.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, I have no legitimate arguments either way right now beyond checking some details on the match, at least until I whip out some CRTs I had in the back for months.

 

[CurrySenpai]

SHULK FRA

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Sheesh, they didn't even give a chance. This was just misfortunate to watch.

 

[SonicBayo1999]

...

Shulk FRA despite him being a brit lol

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

didn't sora have low 1-C power now ?

 

[CurrySenpai]

didn't sora have low 1-C power now ?

Doesn't matter Uncle Ben, MONADO ARMOR, GROUND BEAT, SUMMON BOLT, ELECTRIC GUT BUSTER