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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

She'd be fun in SA1 if she didn't control like a 3rd person action adventure game released as of recent. She's way too slow, though.
 
Theuser789 said:
Fake fan that didn't play the Advance games
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Have fun unlocking her in Advance 2, that said Amy being a legit stand user in Battle will never not be hilarious.
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Probably doesn't count, but she was fine in Sonic Heroes personally.
Hell, I feel Team Rose had the perfect length in terms of stage progression in Heroes because some of the levels in that game dragged on for an unnecessary amount of time
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Tbf the development of Heroes is quite an intresting topic, from Iizuka essential designing most of the levels himself to Team Hooligans getting scrapped during development and ofc the whole nonsense of giving "bubbles" to Knux and Tails instead of actual legit super forms.

Heroes is yet another example of a Sonic game that would've been far less polarising, had it not been subjected to crunch and had to resort to artificially padding out game length in order to make up for the cut content/concepts.
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
Amy was fun in every Gameboy Advance game and Heroes.

Who was gonna be in it?
Click to expand...
Yeah I enjoyed Amy in the GBA Sonic games, she did make some bosses a total joke but then Cream arrived and suddenly Amy looks pretty balanced now.

I'll assume it would've been Fang/Nack, Bean and Bark? Also apparently there's was going to be another team with Metal Sonic, Mighty and Ray with Metal Sonic being disguised as Sonic to trick and manipulate Mighty and Ray into "saving" Chao (which does have some degree of credibility since in Team Rose's Story we see Metal Sonic disguised as Sonic kidnap Froggy and Chocola Chao for Chaos' biodata yet we never actually see Metal Sonic shapeshift into Sonic in Heroes).

Also since IDW is canon to the games any doubts about Metal Knuckles, Tails Doll and Honey the Cat are gone (I mean they were already canon but some addtional confirmation doesn't hurt).
 
@The_Axiom_of_Virgo what? You mean to tell me that cruching and interference from you know who causes cut content and the game having polarizing opinions about it? Oh my, I'm so shocked....../s.
But for reals, how many lessons does SEGA or whoever's responsible need before they realize crunch has almost ****** up Sonic's games in the 2000's and parts of the 2010's
 
also here is a strange argument i heard on the wiki

"
For what it's worth, Mephiles/Solaris' dream of consuming all existing timelines until nothing remains should absolutely be inside of Maginary World. The implication of that is kind of confusing though. If the dream to destroy all of Maginary World is inside Maginary World, does that mean Maginary World contains itself infinitely? In that case, when Solaris nukes the cosmology, is he also nuking the MW dream-verse in which he successfully does the same thing and consumes all timelines? What a mind-****. Did anyone else ever think about how paradoxical this is? If Maginary World really works how it claims to work, Mephiles/Solaris' dream would make it infinitely layered.......
Solaris' ambition to destroy MW is within MW, which is within the scope of of Solaris' destruction, which is within MW, which is within the scope of Solaris' destruction, and so on. I have yet to figure out what this means for the cosmology and for the feat itself...

"
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
so is their going to be a 2A sonic crt
Click to expand...
There's no statement of the verse having infinite universes so there's no way for the verse to reach 2-A. If there was, Solaris and the Super Trio would've been 2-A years ago.
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
[Snip] Solaris' ambition to destroy MW is within MW, which is within the scope of of Solaris' destruction, which is within MW, which is within the scope of Solaris' destruction, and so on. I have yet to figure out what this means for the cosmology and for the feat itself..."
Click to expand...
The issue with that is the slippery slope it provides. You could also argue that those whom dream of higher dimensions would have their dreams encompassed by Maginaryworld, but that doesn't mean we can give them Tier 1 off of that basis. Everything in moderation, my friend
 
I’m not sure, although in the case of the Ancients it doesn’t matter too much, their dreams would still have gone to MW prior to being dumped into cyberspace.
 
The way that part of the Sonic fanbase is reacting to Sonic Prime and IDW!Sonic being canon is so strange. Most of them are cherry-picking any statements about it and disagree with any WoG that implies that it's. A bit weird considering all the time I have seen people initially wanting IDW to be canon... I guess that when it wasn't canon the community that wanted it to be was more vocal about that, while now that it's the community that doesn't want that is more vocal.
 
Alexander said:
One question, if someone is dead, would they really need to eat, drink, sleep or something like that?
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Depends on what "dead" means in the context. Dead things aren't immediately given Self-Sustenance, but if it has the physiology/biology/showings to support it not needing such things then you can go from there.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
@Executor_N0 how CAN they cherrypick those WOG statements?
If Iizuka says it's canon and the intention is to merge the IDW, Prime and Game continuities into one then I'm inclined to believe it to be true
Click to expand...
What I normally read is stuff like "Iizuka might say that, but the truth might be something else", "What Iizuka says might not represent what they are going to do" or "Well, they say that it's canon, but they don't really mean that it's canon, they mean that it's inspired by the games, but not really in the world of the games".
 
So cherrypicking and making assumptions as you said? Figures, but it's weird that many are against the idea when I can't really think of a good reason for why IDW and Prime being canon to the games would be a deal breaker.
Especially when Frontiers makes references to Tangle and you could reasonably argue that Frontiers takes place after one of the major arcs of the comic. Hell, I won't be surprised if in the next arc of the IDW comic we start seeing stuff from Frontiers come in
 
ShakeResounding said:
The issue with that is the slippery slope it provides. You could also argue that those whom dream of higher dimensions would have their dreams encompassed by Maginaryworld, but that doesn't mean we can give them Tier 1 off of that basis. Everything in moderation, my friend
Click to expand...
I'm the one who made the original comment. Glad someone is finally bringing it up. Anyway, I think the slippery slope argument was bound to be made as soon as you used Black Doom and Eggman's dream to take over the universe as evidence that Maginary World dream worlds are universes. The reason why I think Mephiles/Solaris' dream must manifest itself in Maginary World whereas any dream of higher dimensions wouldn't, is because:
1: There's no evidence such a higher dimension exists in Sonic, let alone that someone would dream of something that involves it.
2: The whole reason 2-B Maginary World was accepted is because the dreams that manifest themselves in it are ambitions that Sonic characters find reasonably feasible, and some of these involve the entire universe, requiring them to be the same size. If character motives involving the universe manifest themselves into universe-sized dreams, why wouldn't character motives involving the multiverse create multiverse-sized dreams? On the other hands, dreams involving higher dimensions have no reason to exist unless the character can realistically comprehend and imagine higher dimensions.

At worst, this realization means that Sonic cosmology is countless time bigger than it already was. At best... it means it's a High 1-B structure with an infinite amount of Solarises and Maginary Worlds each on a higher level of reality than the last. Lol
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
So cherrypicking and making assumptions as you said? Figures, but it's weird that many are against the idea when I can't really think of a good reason for why IDW and Prime being canon to the games would be a deal breaker.
Especially when Frontiers makes references to Tangle and you could reasonably argue that Frontiers takes place after one of the major arcs of the comic. Hell, I won't be surprised if in the next arc of the IDW comic we start seeing stuff from Frontiers come in
Click to expand...
Depends on the person. Some people dislike it because of retcons that are needed and things like that. IDW wasn't made canon with the games originally (Early on the editors and Ian were very clear about it not being canon until finally it was made canon recently) so turning IDW canon now would be they turning back on their previous word, and if they did that once, nothing stops them of making IDW not canon years in the future.

Some people just dislike the idea of different media sharing continuity at all, as that would be akin to "forcing the fans to buy this other media they aren't into". This isn't exclusive to Sonic, even the MCU had people complaining about the Netflix series and even D+ series because they would need people to watch stuff that wasn't in the movies (The same with tie-in comics and novels).

And there are also the people that dislike IDW at all because they hate Ian and similar stuff.

Before IDW was made canon, a common complaint was that even though it wasn't canon, it still needed to follow the canon lore and guidelines as if it was canon, meaning that in theory, it was basically canon in everything other than events themselves being canon and fans asked why, I guess that kind of was the reason for why it was so easy for IDW to be made canon.

But the truth is that ever since IDW started the whole situation with SEGA was very different, I think in general the Sonic fanbase in general just isn't familiar with series with this kind of canon that favors a single worldview and settings with a great focus on that stuff.
 
Wow...there's still people who try to justify scaling Classic Base Knuckles above Classic Super Sonic for knocking the emeralds out of him. Pitiful.
 
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My headcanon for that is the Master Emerald+Phantom Ruby,since Knuckles likely used the Emerald to nullify SS & the Phantom Ruby being in the exact spot that he bursts out of. Those powers mixed together,combined with Sonic's inexperience with the form,would make for a decent explanation IMO.
 
Executor_N0 said:
The way that part of the Sonic fanbase is reacting to Sonic Prime and IDW!Sonic being canon is so strange. Most of them are cherry-picking any statements about it and disagree with any WoG that implies that it's. A bit weird considering all the time I have seen people initially wanting IDW to be canon... I guess that when it wasn't canon the community that wanted it to be was more vocal about that, while now that it's the community that doesn't want that is more vocal.
Click to expand...
I have seen that happen myself. It's mostly people who don't like IDW nor Prime and try to cope with them being canon
 
Issen_Mk_III said:
Wow...there's still people who try to justify scaling Classic Base Knuckles above Classic Super Sonic for knocking the emeralds out of him. Pitiful.
Click to expand...
negation of invulnerability, because I don't think super sonic got distracted (**** seriously he is invulnerable)
 
Japanese in-game dialogue translated by Windii



Mostly everything is the same as in the English dialogue. The End dialogue is the one with the most differences and seems to focus on The End as the arbiter of order against the life of the universe that sends civilizations into peace with death and Sonic acting as the force that opposes the order and destiny decided by The End. The end feels much more connected to the idea that Sonic was breaking some kind of law of the universe by defeating The End, this is something that was teased in the very beggining of the game with Tails saying in the Japanese dialogue that Starfalls Islands "breaks laws and causality' and SAGE wondering if Sonic was attemtping to trasncend causality itself.

"I am the orchestrator and arbiter of order in the universe"

"There is no such thing as an absolute constant in the universe"

"My attunement is the ruling of fate on everything that exists in this universe"

"Since time immemorial, it has been ordained that aspiring life forms will come to this end, and that there is no way to challenge thine foolishness"

"Indeed. This was decided from the ordination"

"I see. Is the meaning of thy existence in this universe?"

"Canst thou devote thy being to that aspiration which guides life?"

"Something is about to happen. Something that transcends law and time. is this the beginning of evolution?"

"I see. So that is what the universe is, what life is."
 
Executor_N0 said:
Japanese in-game dialogue translated by Windii



Mostly everything is the same as in the English dialogue. The End dialogue is the one with the most differences and seems to focus on The End as the arbiter of order against the life of the universe that sends civilizations into peace with death and Sonic acting as the force that opposes the order and destiny decided by The End. The end feels much more connected to the idea that Sonic was breaking some kind of law of the universe by defeating The End, this is something that was teased in the very beggining of the game with Tails saying in the Japanese dialogue that Starfalls Islands "breaks laws and causality' and SAGE wondering if Sonic was attemtping to trasncend causality itself.

"I am the orchestrator and arbiter of order in the universe"

"There is no such thing as an absolute constant in the universe"

"My attunement is the ruling of fate on everything that exists in this universe"

"Since time immemorial, it has been ordained that aspiring life forms will come to this end, and that there is no way to challenge thine foolishness"

"Indeed. This was decided from the ordination"

"I see. Is the meaning of thy existence in this universe?"

"Canst thou devote thy being to that aspiration which guides life?"

"Something is about to happen. Something that transcends law and time. is this the beginning of evolution?"

"I see. So that is what the universe is, what life is."
Click to expand...

The End’s lines here remind me of Kyubey.
 
If it's needed, here are the lines in Japanese of the The End fight.
I really found interesting the way that the japanese script seems to put the power that opposes order (Chaos going by the English script) as a power that can overcome causality and the laws of the universe

In many ways, isn't this similar to how Eggman understood Sonic becoming the embodiment of chaos in archie? I do think it's somewhat similar. And the way that Kishimoto's script is written, it does seems like they are going to put Sonic as some type of embodiment of chaos that transcends the universal laws of causality and time, this really wasn't what I was expecting from the Japanese script.

According to Kishimoto, the Japanese script was made with the intention of explaning the setting of Sonic Frontier as it could only be possible by hiding the meaning in Japanese. I wonder if this was an element that was decided earlier on and Ian simply didn't put it on his script even though it was part of the settings.
 
ShakeResounding said:
There's no statement of the verse having infinite universes so there's no way for the verse to reach 2-A. If there was, Solaris and the Super Trio would've been 2-A years ago.

The issue with that is the slippery slope it provides. You could also argue that those whom dream of higher dimensions would have their dreams encompassed by Maginaryworld, but that doesn't mean we can give them Tier 1 off of that basis. Everything in moderation, my friend
Click to expand...
the argument was trying to argue for 2A sonic not tier 1
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
the argument was trying to argue for 2A sonic not tier 1
Click to expand...
Not it wasn't.
Peptocoptr27 said:
At worst, this realization means that Sonic cosmology is countless time bigger than it already was. At best... it means it's a High 1-B structure with an infinite amount of Solarises and Maginary Worlds each on a higher level of reality than the last. Lol
Click to expand...
I'm still processing this though. This is too much of a mindfuck for me to be confident about it
 
Executor_N0 said:
Japanese in-game dialogue translated by Windii



Mostly everything is the same as in the English dialogue. The End dialogue is the one with the most differences and seems to focus on The End as the arbiter of order against the life of the universe that sends civilizations into peace with death and Sonic acting as the force that opposes the order and destiny decided by The End. The end feels much more connected to the idea that Sonic was breaking some kind of law of the universe by defeating The End, this is something that was teased in the very beggining of the game with Tails saying in the Japanese dialogue that Starfalls Islands "breaks laws and causality' and SAGE wondering if Sonic was attemtping to trasncend causality itself.

"I am the orchestrator and arbiter of order in the universe"

"There is no such thing as an absolute constant in the universe"

"My attunement is the ruling of fate on everything that exists in this universe"

"Since time immemorial, it has been ordained that aspiring life forms will come to this end, and that there is no way to challenge thine foolishness"

"Indeed. This was decided from the ordination"

"I see. Is the meaning of thy existence in this universe?"

"Canst thou devote thy being to that aspiration which guides life?"

"Something is about to happen. Something that transcends law and time. is this the beginning of evolution?"

"I see. So that is what the universe is, what life is."
Click to expand...

I have no idea what this would give powerscaling wise
 
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