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Can't you guys discuss this in a separate thread detailing frontiers revisions/new profiles
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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I kinda suspected that from the expanded lore in Frontiers (depending on what you buy) but debating the P&A of The End is major spolier territory and that debate Vs Solaris is a mute point until we can mutually agree upon the scaling, P&A, keys, etc for it.
My example was simply playing devils advocate (literally in the case for Mephiles) since AP can only go so far.
My example was simply playing devils advocate (literally in the case for Mephiles) since AP can only go so far.
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The End has multiple incarnations like Void from Kirby, so beating the End isn’t even really beating it for good
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No, but there is a past villain that did exist that should scale to it. The egg wizard.
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Just beat the game
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Still seeing so many people shit on the game just because it's a sonic game and saying that the people who like have low standards because we're sonic fans
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Ignore the non fans
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I'm not referring to them claiming Sonic is weak, but their other statements on how they defeat and consume all. I won't expand on that further to avoid spoilers, but you get the idea.
For the same of the argument, lets say it's not boasting on The End's part. You'd still need more substantial arguments than a statement. What happens in the right sure doesn't prove their claim. Heck, I'd say it outright demerits it.
You're avoiding the point for the sake of sarcasm, Tio. Infinite as an idea might not be big TO THEM, but from a scaling standpoint here on the wiki, it is VERY much an extraordinary claim to state infinite superiority over past enemies. Heck, I would even say infinite is extraordinary to the verse given they Emeralds are treated as unmatchable relics that are consistently stated to give infinite or limitless power.
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And thinking about it now, the "logical" argument is terrible. Logical people can use hyperbole. The End isn't exempt for being logical
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I gotta say, Chaos Island is probably my least favorite island in the game so far. Like I think it has some decent aspects to it but compared to Kronos and Ares Island it's very bloated and really loves 2D sections for some reason
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Yeah same but the boss fight was cool as ****
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Have to agree with you here, having to switch to 2D for some phases really hampered my experience
TioKill
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That's virtually the same kind of statement - again, a merit of those who contradict that.
Why? Do I have to wait for a guide to reprise The End's line for you to believe it? Nah.
Infinite is not big from a scaling standpoint when it comes to Tier 2. You're beating around the bush.
It's not that rational people can't use hyperbole, The End is nearly robot-like levels of rationality - it wouldn't use a metaphor instead of being straight to the point, it's just not the type of character it is. Boasting wouldn't be a reason, usually the claims it makes are based on it's actual knowledge/data, it might misevaluate something, but why would it be wrong or purposely exaggerating on what it's capable of?
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No, it is very obviously a demerit of The End's judgement if their judgement is proven to be blatantly incorrect in both the metaphorical and literal sense of the statement. If they state all will fall to them, and are wrong about it, it means they either overestimated themselves, or underestimated the opposition. The former would mean they are prone to spout praise about themselves even if it isn't exactly true. If it's the latter, their statement of others being weak in comparison to them wouldn't hold as much weight as other characters have canonically given Sonic more trouble than them.
So since there's no evidence outside of a statement for a big claim you don't want to try to provide more proof. Gotcha.
Look, I agree with The End > Solaris, and I can provide proof of it, the thing is, I have multiple pieces of evidence to support the assertion. Ignoring The End's statement, Sonic was shown to physically require more effort (Wont expand on that to avoid spoilers again).
Them claiming to be infinitely stronger than previous enemies with that alone being the only proof doesn't forma very strong foundation.
It IS big from a scaling standpoint and in-universe. Being literally infinitely stronger and thus being able to one-shot zero diff all previous enemies throughout the entire series is indeed big.
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More on the "Associate Lore Manager" they talked about before
BlastX
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The End read Sonic's mind, it knows how strong all of the opponents Sonic's have fought are and claimed they were nothing towards it, so it's not like they're speaking out of their ass.
And as Frontiers have shown, Super Sonic (at full power) gets stronger the stronger Sonic himself gets, so it should be>>>the one that fought Solaris.
And as Frontiers have shown, Super Sonic (at full power) gets stronger the stronger Sonic himself gets, so it should be>>>the one that fought Solaris.
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No one disagrees that The End > Solaris
The problem is The End can't beat Solaris due to their hax.
The End's statement also comes off as hyperbolic (they immediately state they are nothing after saying they are infinite. So I'd say its clear they didn't mean they were infinitely superior in the way were thinking, that being infinitely times stronger).
MysticMania
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Solaris looks cuter so I agree with Laser. It is a bird
MysticMania
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I have finished Frontiers, by the way.
TioKill
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It is not. Super Sonic surpassed what The End expected, it is as simple as that. it can read Sonic's mind, it KNOWS exactly how strong it's past enemies are. Unlike Sonic, they aren't a constantly changing data
I'll just ignore the "scaling standpoint" because you're wrong, plain and simple. 2-B to 2-B is not a big jump in the Tiering System, in terms of ratio, The End destroys *one infinite snapshot of a temporal dimensional over Solaris". That's a FACT. In Universe gaps are not for us to judge, yes, it's a big gap, but established in canon. What about it?
Got me there. I concede.
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To spare my sanity from trying to use vs wiki on mobile, ill reply to the comment tomorrow when I'm on the PC
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Don't know how you mobile users do it. You're just built different
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Don't know how you mobile users do it. You're just built different
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I'm on mobile rn lol
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I'm on my 2nd playthrough. I've grown to hate Chaos Island even more. That island slows the game down so much as those little chests areas you cyloop no longer/barely drop medals. Just gateways to 2D sections. (Yeah, I know. Big. I'm not a big fishing guy though...pun entirely intended). And it's so annoying and confusing to navigate. Only saving grace is the 3rd titan.
MysticMania
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I agree, sadly. They made me replay colors tonight and I'm not happy
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I did like how Frontiers actually contextualize Sonic Adventure 1 as a whole. I recently finished SA1 before Frontiers came out and getting into the narrative of Frontiers really brings not only brings me back to the lore of SA1 back then but also puts them into a whole new light when you take Chaos and the Chao into factor as a whole.
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because of hax
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Solaris can’t interact with The End’s physiology so no. I won’t get into it because of spoilers but look up the statements about The End. Can’t see how Solaris can do anything to it.
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Not really. The End beats him
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Well it was a plot point they had to stop the End before it reached full power, could it’s statement be about its full power and not the point Sonic fought it at.
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Indeed, this seems extremely likely what it was referring to
TioKill
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The End said its infinitely above all Sonic's past opponents, so nah, Solaris doesn't beat it.
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This is speculation territory, especially since the statment is a boast against Sonic in their fight, not a threat of it coming back again
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Problem is The End didn't see Solaris in Sonic's memories,it can't know about it.
Screaming reverse of the redshift light
Thread of balance unwind
Tear the fabric of time
Gleaming brighter
After all worlds are pulled inside
Gripping tighter
Chokes out the source
Of your boundless might
Screaming reverse of the redshift lightThread of balance unwind
Tear the fabric of time
Gleaming brighter
After all worlds are pulled inside
Gripping tighter
Chokes out the source
Of your boundless might
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