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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

How does the “strength changes when displaced through time” thing actually work? Are they just adapting to versions of themselves found in the time period they’re in (e.g Classic Sonic becoming comparable to Modern Sonic)? If so then what would happen to beings that no longer exist (Biolizard and Mephiles), forms that no longer exist (Metal Overlord) or simply forms not currently active (Perfect Chaos)?

Or does it work differently?
 
ShakeResounding said:
I have a twofold answer for you.
  • Headcanon: Because time heals itself, those that are thrust forward or backward in time will auto-adjust to the general strength of those around it. This explains why Classic can jump to and fro Tier 5 and Tier 2, or why returning bosses like Biolizard and Mephiles can fight "current" Shadow with no issue.
  • Reality: Sega didn't think that hard on it so now Biolizard gets a Modern Era key.
Click to expand...
You actually buy that? What about Biolizard being powered by the "infinite power" of the emeralds? Shouldn't that make him 2-C (after Omega's thread) regardless of how tough his life support system actually is?
Ghengiroo115 said:
I don’t see why having two Generations fights would really mean anything. Every other boss that doesn’t come from the “present” (or whatever the right word would be in Silver’s case) are also treated as keeping up with the character they fight, despite them not scaling to the same level as Generations Sonic or Shadow. The Biolizard having two doesn’t mean it’s more special or anything, it just happens to have two since both Gens 3DS and Shadow Gens wanted to make a boss for it.
Click to expand...
I mean, most of them have valid excuses. The Egg Dragoon fought a previously stronger form of Sonic powered by the 7 Emeralds, along with being piloted by a present day Eggman who likely upgraded the machine. The latter likely also goes for the Egg Emperor in Gens 3DS. I don't have to explain why Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord don't have this issue, so that leaves us with only Mephiles, who was holding back throughout pretty much all of 06 because Shadow could not kill him even after removing his inhibitors, and he ended up achieving his goal. It's only in the Shadow Gens boss fight that his confidant demeanor is replaced with desperation. It's the only fight where he ACTUALLY fails... or it's just an outlier for Mephiles. And again, what about the fact that the Biolizard is explicitely powered by the infinite power of the emeralds? His weak spot may not scale to that, but he should still be 2-C from that.
BlastX said:
It's almost like the fight involves hitting the big weak spot that is it's life support system and all other attacks Shadow throws at it are shrugged off.
Click to expand...
Said weak spot is just as durable regardless of whether Adventure or Modern Characters are hitting it.
BlastX said:
Almost like it's even stated the finalhazard, the Super Sonic final boss, is weaker than it.
Click to expand...
Weaker than Biolizard? Where?
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
You actually buy that? What about Biolizard being powered by the "infinite power" of the emeralds? Shouldn't that make him 2-C (after Omega's thread) regardless of how tough his life support system actually is?
Click to expand...
No, but that's valid in basically any perspective BUT a powerscaling one
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Just look in the Boos' general direction ngl
Click to expand...
Boo's when Eggman uses strong flashlight.

images
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
I mean, most of them have valid excuses. The Egg Dragoon fought a previously stronger form of Sonic powered by the 7 Emeralds, along with being piloted by a present day Eggman who likely upgraded the machine. The latter likely also goes for the Egg Emperor in Gens 3DS. I don't have to explain why Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord don't have this issue, so that leaves us with only Mephiles, who was holding back throughout pretty much all of 06 because Shadow could not kill him even after removing his inhibitors, and he ended up achieving his goal. It's only in the Shadow Gens boss fight that his confidant demeanor is replaced with desperation. It's the only fight where he ACTUALLY fails... or it's just an outlier for Mephiles.
Click to expand...
There’s also the three Classic Era bosses, which become issues due to the whole “Classic Sonic scaling close to Modern Sonic” thing.

Peptocoptr27 said:
And again, what about the fact that the Biolizard is explicitely powered by the infinite power of the emeralds? His weak spot may not scale to that, but he should still be 2-C from that.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about him being made by their power? Because I’m pretty sure Gerald only had one at the time.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
There’s also the three Classic Era bosses, which become issues due to the whole “Classic Sonic scaling close to Modern Sonic” thing.
Click to expand...
When Classic goes back to his time, time "heals" itself enough to make all events unfold as they should, that is used for his page currently and Shadow Gens comfirmed it more

Ghengiroo115 said:
Are we talking about him being made by their power? Because I’m pretty sure Gerald only had one at the time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he only had 1
 
Alright. Don't care about making changes to Biolizard anymore. Not worth the hassle.

On a different note, I'm mind blown by the fact that people are CONVINCED IDW isn't canon. Anytime a Death Battle is annonced, it's always the most ignorant, yet confidant people who have the loudest voices.
 
Btw if the seven Chaos Emeralds become baseline 2-C, then what would that mean for Emerl? Because before we’ve been treating full-on transformations as different from Emerl just containing the emeralds within him, but now we’re saying that just having the seven of them together is 2-C.

Omegabronic said:
When Classic goes back to his time, time "heals" itself enough to make all events unfold as they should, that is used for his page currently and Shadow Gens comfirmed it more
Click to expand...
Yeah, but these characters he fights during Gens are still treated as the same strength as before yet can keep up with a Modern-level Classic Sonic. Based on what I believed before, the Biolizard would’ve followed the same logic and only characters with good reason to scale to the modern cast should be able to.

At least that’s what I was arguing before. Supposedly the Biolizard is supposed to be stronger than the Finalhazard, which if true changes things significantly.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Btw if the seven Chaos Emeralds become baseline 2-C, then what would that mean for Emerl? Because before we’ve been treating full-on transformations as different from Emerl just containing the emeralds within him, but now we’re saying that just having the seven of them together is 2-C.
Click to expand...
Ask User.
Ghengiroo115 said:
At least that’s what I was arguing before. Supposedly the Biolizard is supposed to be stronger than the Finalhazard, which if true changes things significantly.
Click to expand...
And Finalhazard is strong enough for Super Sonic to comment on his strenght and be impressed by it... despite the fact that he fought Perfect Chaos in the game immediately prior with no such comment. The same Perfect Chaos who draws from the FULL power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds according to Sonic Channel...
1-C base SA2 Shadow confirmed
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
Alright. Don't care about making changes to Biolizard anymore. Not worth the hassle.

On a different note, I'm mind blown by the fact that people are CONVINCED IDW isn't canon. Anytime a Death Battle is annonced, it's always the most ignorant, yet confidant people who have the loudest voices.
Click to expand...
,.......,what? people still cope about that?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Btw if the seven Chaos Emeralds become baseline 2-C, then what would that mean for Emerl? Because before we’ve been treating full-on transformations as different from Emerl just containing the emeralds within him, but now we’re saying that just having the seven of them together is 2-C.
Click to expand...
he had a specific limiter put on him to make him not too strong else he would blow up, so, he is the exeption

Ghengiroo115 said:
Yeah, but these characters he fights during Gens are still treated as the same strength as before yet can keep up with a Modern-level Classic Sonic. Based on what I believed before, the Biolizard would’ve followed the same logic and only characters with good reason to scale to the modern cast should be able to.

At least that’s what I was arguing before. Supposedly the Biolizard is supposed to be stronger than the Finalhazard, which if true changes things significantly.
Click to expand...
some are outliers, like the Egg Emperor, some have reasons, like the Biolizard mutating to be that strong......insane RE in terms of stats for that guy, holy
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
Alright. Don't care about making changes to Biolizard anymore. Not worth the hassle.

On a different note, I'm mind blown by the fact that people are CONVINCED IDW isn't canon. Anytime a Death Battle is annonced, it's always the most ignorant, yet confidant people who have the loudest voices.
Click to expand...
I know the feeling... even on Twitter I see some tryna argue IDW isn't canon. They're few in numbers, but they exist and get ignorant.
 
Omegabronic said:
he had a specific limiter put on him to make him not too strong else he would blow up, so, he is the exeption


some are outliers, like the Egg Emperor, some have reasons, like the Biolizard mutating to be that strong......insane RE in terms of stats for that guy, holy
Click to expand...
"RE"?
 
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