Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Lonkitt]

They DIDN'T gas up that feat. At all. That's why the sun disc was the crux of their argument instead, but maybe they should have gassed up the Viltrum feat instead, because every point you brought against it has been thoroughly debunked. Most notably, Space Racer's involvement in the feat makes it MORE impressive for Nolan, not less. I won't go into it here because it's totally off topic and I'm tired of repeating myself, but it's infuriating how much the people who try to deny anything higher than planet level for Nolan have the same amount of dogma and inabillity to listen as Eggman downplayers.

This is my bad, I phrased what I was trying to say a bit weird. But I won't get any further into that since I know what its like to have to constantly go over the same points for a feat (I will at least say that I do think Nolan is low end Tier 5, but I don't agree with Death Battle's verdict or how they approached the feat in question. Still, I'd rather not have us derail into that lol)

Though, whats this about Eggman downplayers?

DT?

Dimensional tiering. Tier 1 stuff

 

[Tipper17]

hat's why the sun disc was the crux of their argument instead, but maybe they should have gassed up the Viltrum feat instead, because every point you brought against it has been thoroughly debunked. Most notably, Space Racer's involvement in the feat makes it MORE impressive for Nolan, not less. I won't go into it here because it's totally off topic and I'm tired of repeating myself, but it's infuriating how much the people who try to deny anything higher than planet level for Nolan have the same amount of dogma and inabillity to listen as Eggman downplayers.

niether are remotelty comparable at all and any arguemtns to suggest higher planet level nolan or even dwarf star at best is laughbale
Eggman comes from a series that has a shit ton of high end ***** that trying to debunk one will lead to several other exampler to say otherwise

 

[Peptocoptr27]

This is my bad, I phrased what I was trying to say a bit weird. But I won't get any further into that since I know what its like to have to constantly go over the same points for a feat (I will at least say that I do think Nolan is Tier 5, but I don't agree with Death Battle's verdict)

Agree to disagree. I think Nolan is tier 4 and that Death Battle had the right outcome for poorly explained reasons like with Ben 10 vs Green Lantern.

Though, whats this about Eggman downplayers?

Along with the so called "Time Eater downgrades" that have been going around, and lots of other debunked downgrade attempts. I still see people calling Solaris universal and that Sonic shouldn't even scale to him.

Dimensional tiering. Tier 1 stuff

Oh, tier 1 Sonic has definitely gained traction outside the wiki. So has tier 1 Mario though, and they're usually placed at relative levels of AP by the majority of people who don't (seem to) have an agenda to push.

 

[Tipper17]

I think Nolan is tier 4 and that Death Battle had the right outcome

not in a chance in hell but moving on

Dimensional tiering. Tier 1 stuff

it has gotten traction but other than that multi+ i slike the general peak

 

[ShionAH]

"I turned myself into a Sonic OC Morty! I AM SONICHU RICK!" [Dr. Robotnik vs Rick Sanchez]

Speed is equalized Both have access to all their resources expect for the ones they cant fully own They have a day to prepare Baldy McNosehair: King of Shit:

vsbattles.com

 

[Theuser789]

I only have dread for the Death Battle. Maybe if they used Archie Eggman I would actually have any hopes for it, but seeing their track record with game characters... My only wish that this battle isn't just a Bowser glazing fest to make up for him being robbed by Ganon, but I doubt it.

 

[MysticMania]

I do wonder why apparently only some of why Paper is being used, and why Archie Sonic and Mario-Kun aren't included.

 

[JJSliderman]

Paper is because it’s argued they’re the same as mainline, Archie and Mario kun aren’t cuz they’re the weird OP non-canon versions.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I only have dread for the Death Battle. Maybe if they used Archie Eggman I would actually have any hopes for it, but seeing their track record with game characters... My only wish that this battle isn't just a Bowser glazing fest to make up for him being robbed by Ganon, but I doubt it.

The dread far overtakes the hype for me too

 

[JJSliderman]

I know at least the animation will be good and Moro will cook.
But yeah, they will def nerf Eggman a lot to make him seem even with Bowser.

 

[Theuser789]

I do wonder why apparently only some of why Paper is being used, and why Archie Sonic and Mario-Kun aren't included.

Because their composite rule is complete BS and changes episode to episode.

 

[MysticMania]

Paper is because it’s argued they’re the same as mainline, Archie and Mario kun aren’t cuz they’re the weird OP non-canon versions.

Well from what I think I've heard discussed, only some of Paper is used. Something like "expect the first three games but not the others".

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Well from what I think I've heard discussed, only some of Paper is used. Something like "expect the first three games but not the others".

To be more explicit: Ultraguy, one of the researchers for DB, said in Discord that they were using the first three games for Bowser but not the others.

 

[JJSliderman]

That makes no sense, they’re all in the same continuity.
Either use them all or none.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

To be more explicit: Ultraguy, one of the researchers for DB, said in Discord that they were using the first three games for Bowser but not the others.

He said to expect MOSTLY the main triology. He wants to exclude the more explicitely "paper physiology" stuff.

 

[MysticMania]

I don't mean this rudely, but of course, the characters were papery in every Paper game. In my eyes, I don't see how you have the Paper Mario without the Paper.

Not saying that towards you, just to the idea, in general.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I don't mean this rudely, but of course, the characters were papery in every Paper game. In my eyes, I don't see how you have the Paper Mario without the Paper.

Not saying that towards you, just to the idea, in general.

None taken. That's just what he said. He wants to include Paper Mario stuff while excluding the more outwardly "papery" stuff

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

That makes no sense, they’re all in the same continuity.
Either use them all or none.

Didn't Paper Jam split regular Mario and Paper Mario into two different continuities or something? At least anything after Super Paper Mario.

 

[JJSliderman]

Didn't Paper Jam split regular Mario and Paper Mario into two different continuities or something? At least anything after Super Paper Mario.

I mean all 6 PM games are in the same chain of events, OK references the first 3.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I mean all 6 PM games are in the same chain of events, OK references the first 3.

Fair, I guess DB wants to focus on the first three games due to SPM and the Pure Hearts.

Plus, the first three games are the most relevant ones in the series. No diss to the others, except for Sticker Star that one can go **** itself.

 

[Theuser789]

This is all just so Bowser can have the Pure Hearts so he doesn't get negged by the Time Eater.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Because their composite rule is complete BS and changes episode to episode.

I like how the best visual feats for Knux in his battle with DK, were from Boom (causing a volcanic eruption and a punching a meteor) and X (destroying the moon transceiver) despite coming from two explicitly different continuities that cannot be canon to each other for several reasons.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I think this inclusion is fair. It just annoys me to see people so 100% convinced that Bowser and Paper Bowser are the same character with no care for nuance. There is evidence for it and evidence against it. Could go either way

 

[SJG13673]

Another Archie abilities stash, check it out

Yet another Archie Sonic abilities crt

Stash isn't empty just yet, here we go. Power Rings get; Speed Amplification (Sonic noted to be able to move faster with a ring in hand) More Power Bestowal (Monkey Khan upon putting on a Power Ring gained abilities to summon lightning and a nimbus cloud to ride on, with these abilities...

vsbattles.com

 

[Remus1998]

This is all just so Bowser can have the Pure Hearts so he doesn't get negged by the Time Eater.

Lightman solos anyways

 

[ShakeResounding]

I said it before, I'll say it again.

Dr. Eggman losing isn't what would bother me about the upcoming DB. It's if they just shit the bed in their research for the Sonic series, or fumble the stats (which imo they likely will).

I think @Theuser789 mentioned it before, but something else that would be annoying would be if they used our research and just hand wave away what they don't like. Which happens 90% of the time in powerscaling anyways but whatever lol

 

[Theuser789]

Lightman solos anyways

Ruby? Will be STOLEN by Mario Party minigames.

 

[Snek]

I said it before, I'll say it again.

Dr. Eggman losing isn't what would bother me about the upcoming DB. It's if they just shit the bed in their research for the Sonic series, or fumble the stats (which imo they likely will).

I think @Theuser789 mentioned it before, but something else that would be annoying would be if they used our research and just hand wave away what they don't like. Which happens 90% of the time in powerscaling anyways but whatever lol

I'm hoping they at least bring up the FEB and the speed feat of super sonic and burning blaze flying outside the universe. If they do those two things I couldn't be too annoyed with them but that's just me.

 

[Lonkitt]

I do wonder why apparently only some of why Paper is being used, and why Archie Sonic and Mario-Kun aren't included.

Paper is highly overrated in VS settings, won't lie. Like besides the Pure Hearts (which is used a grand total of ONCE to buff anyone relevant from Super Paper Mario) and Chaos Heart...it doesn't have much sauce in VS debating scenarios

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

I only have dread for the Death Battle. Maybe if they used Archie Eggman I would actually have any hopes for it, but seeing their track record with game characters... My only wish that this battle isn't just a Bowser glazing fest to make up for him being robbed by Ganon, but I doubt it.

If we see "as determined in Mario vs Sonic 2018" It will confirm that they truly do not give a shit about scaling these characters properly.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

If we see "as determined in Mario vs Sonic 2018" It will confirm that they truly do not give a shit about scaling these characters properly.

They've grown enough from Season 5 to where I don't see that happening totally, but time will tell.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

if they used our research and just hand wave away what they don't like. Which happens 90% of the time in powerscaling anyways but whatever lol

THIS.

I'm hoping they at least bring up the FEB and the speed feat of super sonic and burning blaze flying outside the universe. If they do those two things I couldn't be too annoyed with them but that's just me.

I 100% expect the FEB. They may directly compare it to Bowser's galaxy level shit though.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

THIS.

I 100% expect the FEB. They may directly compare it to Bowser's galaxy level shit though.

I honestly have a feeling stats will be comparable based on everything I've heard. They buy Low Multi or higher Super Forms at minimum and I think are ok with Quad C stuff on both Mario and Sonic.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I honestly have a feeling stats will be comparable based on everything I've heard. They buy Low Multi or higher Super Forms at minimum and I think are ok with Quad C stuff on both Mario and Sonic.

Yeah, that's what most prediction blogs tend to do. Some even give a slight edge to Eggman in stats but ultimately still give the win to Bowser via hax. Problem is, none of them bring up good counters to the Egg Field, or even the metal virus. The former alone cooks Bowser even with a stat advantage. Unless Bowser steals the Chaos Emeralds before Eggman activates it, which is something he would need to know firsthand.

 

[JJSliderman]

Metal virus counter is prolly just Bowser warping them away and then spawning new troops.
Unless it gets on Bowser himself, in which case it’s joever, I don’t think his fire is as hot as the sun.

 

[Theuser789]

Unless Bowser steals the Chaos Emeralds before Eggman activates it, which is something he would need to know firsthand.

Bowser is Aizen. He just looks at it and then steals it because that's totally how he fights.

 

[Fireld]

Nah man, he's straight up Yhwach.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Bowser vs Eggman shall be the reverse Madara vs Aizen.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Nah man, he's straight up Yhwach.

PS, that's Daisuke Jigen in the pfp yeah? If so then peak.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Metal virus counter is prolly just Bowser warping them away and then spawning new troops.
Unless it gets on Bowser himself, in which case it’s joever, I don’t think his fire is as hot as the sun.

DIdn't Mario survive a dip in the sun? Bowser's fire should scale to that.