Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[JJSliderman]

I think either could make sense, Solaris was said to exist in all eras of history so, it would make sense that all eras of history would be what he destroyed, hence all the jikanjiku if jikanjiku refers to event sequences here. That would also fulfill the conditions necessary to make time itself meaningless, as time would cease to exist along with the universe.

EDIT: Turns out what Eggman said was that Solaris had sucked in dimension after dimension, so it does add more credence to the idea that Solaris affecting timelines was actually him affecting dimensions. I also talked with another Sonic supporter who vouched for the same approach. So, still a little unsure but leaning towards the site approach being correct.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I think either could make sense, Solaris was said to exist in all eras of history so, it would make sense that all eras of history would be what he destroyed, hence all the jikanjiku if jikanjiku refers to event sequences here. That would also fulfill the conditions necessary to make time itself meaningless, as time would cease to exist along with the universe.

Solaris was said to exist across all of time. That would also mean that Eggman's statement of Solaris destroying the timelines refers to a total space-time continuum destruction, which clearly indicates all the universes are going to be wiped from existence if Solaris wouldn't be stopped

I don't know what you or rather your friend means by "all eras of history", but if you imply that's just him existing in all time, that would still mean Solaris will destroy the entire space-time continuum in all universes

 

[JJSliderman]

By all eras of history I meant, jikanjiku means time axis, and a time axis can be just a small part of an overall timeline. As an example, a time axis could occur over the course of a human’s infancy. So, destroying every time axis could have meant either destroying every timeline in terms of destroying spatial universes, or destroying every time axis that occurs in the span of an overarching timeline. Considering that the term jikanjiku is used earlier in the game, in the context of Eggman sending Sonic to the future and using it in the same thought as talking about the distant past or future, I assumed that there could be some merit to the term moreso referring to small time vignettes of an overall universe, rather than the western depiction of timeline.

I thought this would kind of hurt Solaris, because it never outright said he would affect all dimensions, but since Eggman also stated Solaris had sucked in dimension after dimension I’ve kind of reconsidered, and at the very least he was erasing the dimensions at every time period they existed. I don’t think MW is classed as a separate timeline to my knowledge so, I guess it wouldn’t be affected by the “all timelines” statement referring just to all time axes of a universe.

The short version is I thought Solaris would be downgraded (due to potentially not affecting many timeline universes after all, and it never being stated that Solaris would affect all dimensions, which cast doubt in me that Maginaryworld would be affected), but since Solaris was going to destroy all of time and was stated to affect multiple dimensions, and since time extends across all dimensions presumably, I feel more comfortable saying Solaris would affect MW.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

By all eras of history I meant, jikanjiku means time axis, and a time axis can be just a small part of an overall timeline. As an example, a time axis could occur over the course of a human’s infancy. So, destroying every time axis could have meant either destroying every timeline in terms of destroying spatial universes, or destroying every time axis that occurs in the span of an overarching timeline. Considering that the term jikanjiku is used earlier in the game, in the context of Eggman sending Sonic to the future and using it in the same thought as talking about the distant past or future, I assumed that there could be some merit to the term moreso referring to small time vignettes of an overall universe, rather than the western depiction of timeline.

Nice theory. Too bad you or your friend got nothing to back that up

I thought this would kind of hurt Solaris, because it never outright said he would affect all dimensions

Yes it did. Eggman literally said that Solaris will destroy all timelines and destroy the meaning of time itself

, but since Eggman also stated Solaris had sucked in dimension after dimension I’ve kind of reconsidered, and at the very least he was erasing the dimensions at every time period they existed. I don’t think MW is classed as a separate timeline to my knowledge so, I guess it wouldn’t be affected by the “all timelines” statement referring just to all time axes of a universe.

Timeline in fiction is by definiton a space-time contiuum of a universe. Destroying all timelines very clearly means he'd destroy all universes.

Again, we've been over this already and you got rejected again and again. Drop it

The short version is I thought Solaris would be downgraded (due to potentially not affecting many timeline universes after all, and it never being stated that Solaris would affect all dimensions, which cast doubt in me that Maginaryworld would be affected)

Again, Eggman clearly said he's going to destroy all timelines, and destroy the very meaning of time itself

 

[JJSliderman]

It was said Solaris would destroy all timelines. Not all dimensions.

And a timeline can just be a timeline of events within a greater universe in some circumstances.

I’m not saying that the latter is the case but, the game does kind of go back and forth on the nature of how it uses the word timeline.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It was said Solaris would destroy all timelines. Not all dimensions.

And a timeline can just be a timeline of events within a greater universe in some circumstances.

You need to prove that these circumstances are what happen in Sonic 06 though, and sadly, you or your friend have no proof.
Timeline is fiction by definition is a space-time contiuum of a universe. And I've yet to see any piece of fiction that treats the word timeline differently, especially within a multiverse with many universes

I’m not saying that the latter is the case but, the game does kind of go back and forth on the nature of how it uses the word timeline.

No it doesn't. The intention of what Solaris will do is very clear. But, if you think I'm wrong, then please provide proof of how I'm wrong

 

[JJSliderman]

In the cutscene where Eggman sends Sonic to the future, he says they sent them to a different timeline, but he immediately follows with talking about the past and the future, so in context I think his use of jikanjiku there was more related to generic time travel, unless time travel is dimensional travel by default.

 

[ElixirBlue]

In the cutscene where Eggman sends Sonic to the future, he says they sent them to a different timeline, but he immediately follows with talking about the past and the future, so in context I think his use of jikanjiku there was more related to generic time travel, unless time travel is dimensional travel by default.

Shadow follows up by meeting Sonic at that same distant future with different means. He states that future was removed from their own timeline.

 

[Fireld]

Also 2 scans confirming it's an what if/alternative timeline. Didn't we already have a thread about this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In the cutscene where Eggman sends Sonic to the future, he says they sent them to a different timeline, but he immediately follows with talking about the past and the future, so in context I think his use of jikanjiku there was more related to generic time travel, unless time travel is dimensional travel by default.

Not really, Sonic's Generations directly confirms Silver's future is a different timeline than Sonic's, in the same way the Bad Future timeline in Sonic CD is a different timeline (again confirmed by Generations)

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah I did bring that up but, it was argued that was a retcon of some kind, and that Silver’s future is continuously changed by the actions of the past in future games and comic media. But at the same time the ‘06 Prima guide mentioned a splintered timeline, implying it divulged in two paths at some point, and the fact Silver has to go and save his future rather than fixing the past with Sonic implies the two became disconnected at some point. So maybe it was always intended to be a separate dimensional space, but I’m a little uneasy.

Technically what Shadow said was that the future world was far removed from their own period, which could just be related to time travel. But all the alternate timeline stuff does seem to be what is pushed in future entries so, fair enough

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I mean, even modern games just use sprites (2-D art) of stars pasted around/near the inner surface of a very large sphere (Which is used for the background) to represent stars, realistic stars are asking for an obscene size that consumes a ton of dev complications (like having to deal with significant scales) for no real gain.

Me trying to explain this to thick-headed people saying Mario Galaxy is actually full of small celestial bodies

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Also since Silver's mind manip can affect the cast in rivals isn't that kind of notable given their resistances to it? Or am I reading too much into that

 

[Theuser789]

Yes it is notable

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Today on Bumblekast Super/Hyper Sonic is barely asteroid level,they can't destroy a planet at all. Goku in the saiyan saga stomps him once again. These were both direct questions about his stats,the latter was actually a callout about downplay. I know,screw WoG,but damn,it's getting more frequent.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Today on Bumblekast Super/Hyper Sonic is barely asteroid level,they can't destroy a planet at all.

Asteroid level Super Sonic? That's based as hell tbh

On a serious note it's pretty neat how people who work on a franchise such as Ian Flynn view the power of the verse completely differently then what people into power scaling do. I like the fact that we could ask, I dunno, anyone who's worked on the Zelda series how fast Link is and there's no way they'd think he's even remotely close to mach 1. Just think it's pretty funny.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

True. Seeing an entirely different perspective can shed some light on your own,but constantly seeing it from someone with authority is whittling away at my faith in other interpretations,I'm starting to believe him.

 

[JED]

Today on Bumblekast Super/Hyper Sonic is barely asteroid level,they can't destroy a planet at all. Goku in the saiyan saga stomps him once again. These were both direct questions about his stats,the latter was actually a callout about downplay. I know,screw WoG,but damn,it's getting more frequent.

People need to stop asking Flynn (and writers in general) powerscaling questions

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

People need to stop asking Flynn (and writers in general) powerscaling questions

Yeah,they aren't gonna like any answer he gives tbh. It's just that said answers are out there now & they sting alot more than randoms saying something,in my experience.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

People need to stop asking Flynn (and writers in general) powerscaling questions

Agreed you can't expect any type of sensible answer when relying on WoG and argument from belief. Also Ian Flynn isn't the end all be all of Sonic, it's Sega that gets final say on the lore and Ian is just one voice in an international company/franchise (by that logic Goku also beats all versions of Superman because Sean Schemmel said so on a couple of occasions).

Yeah,they aren't gonna like any answer he gives tbh. It's just that said answers are out there now & they sting alot more than randoms saying something,in my experience.

Just ignore it and move on, those interviews barely impact the wider Sonic fandom. In an actual debate using logic, feats and canon any downplay sourced by Ian Flynn quickly falls apart.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

When WoG contradicts what happens in canon, then WoG should be discredited

Statements are only usable when there are feats and evidence to back them up, otherwise they don't prove anything

By that logic, Kaioken times 20 is stronger than Super Saiyan since Toriyama said it's only a 10 times multiplier

 

[Executor_N0]

When WoG contradicts what happens in canon, then WoG should be discredited

I particularly find it funny Surge mentions the speed of light, while every time that Flynn mentions her speed in the bumblekast he basically just says "she moves at mach 1" as if it was an impressive thing.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

WoG is a weird thing. In canon, the Gems from SU have moved faster than light in some feats and calcs but I believe we take the WoG and in-universe statement that they cant go FTL over those feats.

Not saying the situations are comparable at all but yeah.

 

[Theuser789]

Today on Bumblekast Super/Hyper Sonic is barely asteroid level,they can't destroy a planet at all. Goku in the saiyan saga stomps him once again. These were both direct questions about his stats,the latter was actually a callout about downplay. I know,screw WoG,but damn,it's getting more frequent.

Ian is a hack, we know

 

[Fireld]

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Ian is a hack, we know

I should've prefaced it by saying the tiny boulders in Doomsday Zone,& not something like the Chicxulub. Yikes...

 

[Remus1998]

I don't understand how moving in an area with no Time grants Time Stop resistance (The White Space)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't understand how moving in an area with no Time grants Time Stop resistance (The White Space)

That's not how they got resistance though. They got it since they can move in while time is stopped in Sonic Adventure 2

 

[Remus1998]

Well it is a part of the justifications of Sonic and Eggman, and looking at the main justification which is the Time Switch, aren't they activating it, it's not like they're trying to affect themselves with the Time Switch

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well it is a part of the justifications of Sonic and Eggman, and looking at the main justification which is the Time Switch, aren't they activating it, it's not like they're trying to affect themselves with the Time Switch

You realize that everyone can talk and observe what Sonic and his friends are doing regardless of who activates the switch?

This is mostly done by Eggman, but any of them can give commentary about what the others are doing even when time is stopped

Not to mention that while they were going to the Cannon's core, Shadow travels to there himself even when time stops

 

[Remus1998]

Ok that makes sense

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

You realize that everyone can talk and observe what Sonic and his friends are doing regardless of who activates the switch?

This is mostly done by Eggman, but any of them can give commentary about what the others are doing even when time is stopped

Not to mention that while they were going to the Cannon's core, Shadow travels to there himself even when time stops

Then Shadow should have time stop resistance in his Adventure key since only Modern does. I figured he didn’t have it because he’s the only playable character that doesn’t activate the time switches.

 

[JED]

In case anyone missed this

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then Shadow should have time stop resistance in his Adventure key since only Modern does. I figured he didn’t have it because he’s the only playable character that doesn’t activate the time switches.

Yeah we probably missed that out when we first added the ability. He should get it because Amy convinced him to move to the cannon's core while Sonic and the rest were getting there. He clearly was in his way before they finished since he only arrived seconds after them

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah this'll be pretty fun

 

[Dust_Collector]

Another mid at best Sonic game to add to his 30 year old pile of trash

Really like how the combat is looking, that move where he does a flurry of kicks and shoots wind or energy beams looks dope

 

[Dalesean027]

Another mid at best Sonic game to add to his 30 year old pile of trash

They've learned from forces I hope

Really like how the combat is looking, that move where he does a flurry of kicks and shoots wind or energy beams looks dope

Yeah im curious to see how far it goes

 

[Coolboy6]

Yeah this'll be pretty fun

Ok, this looks really cool. Sonic’s model is very detailed, like you could see the fabric on his gloves with a realistic texture, and his quills are also very detailed too

 

[SuperStar]

Another mid at best Sonic game to add to his 30 year old pile of trash

Based

 

[Fireld]

Another mid at best Sonic game to add to his 30 year old pile of trash

Really like how the combat is looking, that move where he does a flurry of kicks and shoots wind or energy beams looks dope

True! Seems like Sonic picked up the Tempest Kick of the CP9 from One Piece.