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The meaning incarnation/embodiment of a thing means that it’s that thing but in a particular form. Like Jesus is God but as a human, it’s stated he is an embodiment of God meaning he is God.
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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How is it gone then? Ian Flynn wouldn’t say The End is gone if he had a “true form” in his back pocket.
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Ian is not the authority on whether or not The End returns. That's Sega. User explained this above
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Sega is, but they haven’t contradicted Ian at all.
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Kishimoto literally did...
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Kishimoto is not Sega and his statement contradicts the story. Now if someone like Eitaro Toyoda said something that’d be different.
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I know right, but during my search I did find this pretty cool comic on Tumblr.
Seeing The End's dialogue mixed in with what Sonic said to Merlina at the end of Black Knight is pretty pungent. As if Sonic is seeing himself fighting against a more extreme, more cosmic version of his own beliefs. Where as Sonic knows everything will end yet lives to the fullest, The End chooses to destroy everything because it's the ultimate fate of the multiverse.
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Even so though, Kishimoto is a greater voice of authority than Ian btw
Kishimoto's the director of Sega's Sonic Team, Ian just wrote the script for Frontiers (which just means he wrote the dialogue, and thus, what he believes happened as far as actual events go is nothing more than a personal interpretation compared to Kishimoto being a voice of authority; it's not in his place to decide whether or not The End is gone for good)
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Anyways, not really entertaining this matter much further. I've said my piece, and that's enough for me
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I know, you’re missing the point. You said Sega is the ultimate authority on Sonic yet Kishimoto is not Sega, in fact, if Sega didn’t approve of it or weren’t in the picture there would be no Sonic Frontiers.
The point is in Sonic Frontiers… the Japanese version which Kishimoto supervised himself… it is shown to us that Sonic, Sage and Eggman see the Moon when referring to The End. This is a direct contradiction to what Kishimoto said as he said what Sonic and Sage saw of The End were different.
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That’s fine.
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then who has more authority?ian or kishimoto?
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We do not know for certain.
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I think it’s Kishimoto just for being a member of Sonic Team.
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You know, aside from the idea of The taking control of Sonic's body to be genuninely creepy and terrifying, I would like to add my own personal meta horror to the comic:
So Sonic's whole motif is that he's the fastest thing alive, right? His speed is as everlasting as the wind itself and surpassing many of his peers, his rivals, and his foes all the same...yet even Sonic knows that no matter how fast he runs, he can't outrun the inevitability of death and is aware that there will come a day in his life where it catches up to him. And then there's The End, the all consuming void of nothingness which is destined to bring forth the oblivion of everything and everyone, the incarnation of death itself and being the one force of nature that has inadvertently claimed powerful anomalies and foes throughout Sonic's story regardless of how strong they were. So the comic itself just adds this unintentional sense of horror when it asks the question "What if Death took the form of the fastest thing alive to further its goal of bringing forth the end?".
My apologies for the small essay there, I just like to think and the idea of The End possessing Sonic really gets my brain thinking
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I'm happy The End isn't coming back
It's wasted potential the character.
Like come on I have an idea for a better presentation of The End
Imagine, The End occasionally becomes a random Sonic villain during the battle, but retains its purple exterior and red glow
For instance, End Merlina with red eyes on the knight astral form, End Solaris was red eyes with maybe a redesigned wing, End Alf layla la layla with purple skin and bulging eyes etc etc etc
So many good ideas and they decided to go with "Purple Moon", nobody is gonna be intimidated/scared/in awe of it. At least give it an original new design, it just looks lame and (English) End says the most cliche villain stuff. At least the JP version was more philosophical and less egotistical.
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still thinking in how the end is a cliche villain,having to fight like,with what?mindless monsters with no dialogue?well except a few
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Well unfortunately for you Ian has no say on the matter so you can't say for certain that The End isn't coming back
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All that's missing is for a purple moon to appear in the next Sonic game...
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No need to remind me
Although with the nature of Sonic Games, no villain is truly coming back unless it's Eggman.
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Have you listened to the dialogue?
The only mindless monsters were Solaris and Dark Gaia, but you can read the context surrounding it and it still has more substance than The End.
All we know is that The End is a higher purpose being that annihilates stuff for "Order" in the Universe, other than that it has nothing interesting or any motivation. Even a motivation as simple as "I want to rule/destroy the world" is better than The End just deleting stuff because... it deletes stuff. We know basically nothing about it.
At least with Solaris we know it wanted revenge after being misused and Dark Gaia is a cosmic force of nature tied to the Earth's cycle of rebirth/destruction. And they only played a major role in one game as well.
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The End literally is a cosmic force of nature as well though... Its whole thing is that it's death personified and it brings all to "order"
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time eater,iblis,the ifrit,biolizard,the dragon of superstars.
the rest were villains who didn't have much personality, due to their lack of dialogue, or because they seemed to have such ridiculous motivations...infinite and zavok.
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@HenshinIntervention And knowing SEGA's unfortunately consistent track record, The End likely won't be coming back anytime soon due to SEGA's seeming belief that the only reoccurring villain which Sonic needs is Doctor Eggman. And I love Doctor Eggman as much as the next guy but, like, it would be nice to have other villains reappear outside the comics in the games.
I think The End has a lot of potential to either a fleshed out antagonist or, at the bare minimum, have it operate through avatars and make it pop every once in awhile to toy with Sonic or add some meaningful dialogue. But alas, I think we'll just be seeing Eggman again for the umpteenth time
I think The End has a lot of potential to either a fleshed out antagonist or, at the bare minimum, have it operate through avatars and make it pop every once in awhile to toy with Sonic or add some meaningful dialogue. But alas, I think we'll just be seeing Eggman again for the umpteenth time
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how many times does eggman apper in the games?
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Including rerelases and ports, and not counting games like the comics, TV shows, movies, and all that, I counted around 111 appearances either directly or through cameos over the years if the Sonic Wiki is to be trusted. He's basically THE villain to show up in anything related to Sonic
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Kishimoto. He's the one who actually made the game and its story.
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Yeah it does need a new design.
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The End is the same deal as Dark Gaia, but on a bigger scale, it is an arbiter of finality, preserving order, an force of the universe that is bringing the rightful end of all things, making all "end" to make all become "order", The End is the perfect contrast to Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds, someone who is biding all in a fateful end, making no "Chaos" exist to deviate it, it is one of the best vilains since it is an polar opposite to the 2 most important aspects of the franchise, that being Sonic and the "Chaos" Emeralds, even in older guides it is said that the emeralds are what make things have "life" and with The End being "Death" it shows even greater contrast with them
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i kind of like the design, it is just a moon, but it is very unique due to it, no Sonic vilain ever came close to looking like The End
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On God
Every other villain was either one note or a monster
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I miss the time when we thought that we would see more of The End and have it taking other forms to fit with the scenario and play with this idea (To be honest, the DLC final battle being The End using Supreme as a puppet already turned me off).
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As I said before, the best scenario would've been to have the Supreme and Tethered Supreme fights (except without The End itself being destroyed by Cyber Sonic), and then after Sonic runs out of both Cyber Energy and his Super Form, he gives his canon speech to the ancients, who combined their remaining energy (due to their connection to the Chaos Emeralds and Cyber Space) to restore both his Super Form and his Cyber Boost, allowing him to fight The End in a 1v1.
That way, The End only talking to Sonic during their fight makes way more sense.
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You know what I think should've been done for Final Horizon? Make it the "True" ending of Sonic Frontiers. Yes I am serious, I think instead of making the DLC a quote unquote "Another Story" I think they missed a big opportunity by making Final Horizon the real ending to the game.
See the way I see it, Sonic Frontiers' base ending and the Final Horizon being framed as two separate timelines but equally as canon to the game is just illogical to me and frankly it just doesn't make sense for FH to be another possibility that Sage could've calculated in her mind. But here's my idea: What if in the base game you fulfill a certain criteria that is optional, but leads to a special reward, and it leads to a message like "Congratulations! You have fulfilled insert criteria here and have unlocked the true ending story! Do you wish to play it?" where if you say yes then it just leads to the first cutscene of Final Horizons and making it the actual ending.
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With The End being gutted from the franchise (terrible decision), I want to share a gem I've received today.
May you rest in peace, The End. So much potential... taken away before it could really shine...
May you rest in peace, The End. So much potential... taken away before it could really shine...
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Let me guess, you got this from Reddit? It's so weird to me....Sonic just does not have any scalers that don't downplay him or the franchise. But regardless, I'm assuming this comment is basically denouncing Kishimoto's statement even though next to nothing suggests that Kishimoto was using the terminology "death" to describe your average eldritch horror, I mean Jesus he straight up says that The End will appear differently based off how one envisions Death as looking like so
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