• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

40:49 Sage: It's time for your courage and speed to transcend causality. Unknown possibilities are gathered here. It creates fluctuations in arithmetic results. (If the game is bugged, we can say it's just Sonic messing with physics)

54:09 The End: I am the orchestrator and arbiter of cosmic order. My light is judgment. I melt all things and return them to the primordial dust. Nothing can escape the infinite light. Answer Me, little life.
 
Executor_N0 said:
54:09 The End: I am the orchestrator and arbiter of cosmic order. My light is judgment. I melt all things and return them to the primordial dust. Nothing can escape the infinite light. Answer Me, little life.
Click to expand...
and some people thinking the end is ''inferior''to light gaia,but the end is saying himself to be the infinite light,not reffering to light gaia.
 
and i don't want to see people say ''wow this version is better''it is just a translation for the love of everything
 
Alexander said:
and i don't want to see people say ''wow this version is better''it is just a translation for the love of everything
Click to expand...
Some people do prefer the Japanese scripts of Sonic games compared to English. Me personally, it depends on the game itself like for Adventure 1 and 2 on PC, I always play the game using a mod that translates the Japanese script to English while for games like Sonic Unleashed and the Black Knight I like it in English more.
Executor_N0 said:
54:09 The End: I am the orchestrator and arbiter of cosmic order. My light is judgment. I melt all things and return them to the primordial dust. Nothing can escape the infinite light. Answer Me, little life.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it all but confirm Kishimoto's statement of The End being the incarnation of Death in the Sonic Multiverse? Because if The End is the one who melts all things and returns them to the primordial dust from when they were born then I have to presume that it truly is meant to be Sonic's version of Death
 
you may not belive it,but,the end is pure evil(the canonical one)the jap one is just,a more like ''extremist''that believes it's actions are truly good
 
Has anyone calced Erazor pulling words from across, and returning, the words of the Arabian Nights? Since the words form the essence of the world he’d have to be pulling them from the edge of the cosmology, which is big enough that a universe sized astral plane is contained in a single building, feels like it would be pretty fast.
 
Alexander said:
you may not belive it,but,the end is pure evil(the canonical one)the jap one is just,a more like ''extremist''that believes it's actions are truly good
Click to expand...
I always presumed that as the embodiment of Death, The End wants to destroy everything because it already knows that everything will one day...but I think The End is doing it prematurely instead of waiting for everything to die and so it's the bad guy.

You know as a side tangent, a part of me wants to spend some cash on Ian Flynn's QNA podcast to ask if he was ever told why The End. Because I'm aware that The End looks different to everyone because of how people perceive Death but the purple moon thing is kind of goofy to me
 
On TV Tropes, THE END is a Complete Monster in the English dub, but not in the Japanese dub.
 
Btw, the fact that according to Ian some of the lines from the US version weren't made by him (such as the one explaining the backstory of the multiple Ancient species), makes me wonder who did them. Considering how much lore Kishimoto seems to have made for the game, I wonder if he did make some custom dialogues for those scenes that just got translated. Sadly Kishimoto seems to not be answering fans anymore after the 3rd DLC complications.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I always presumed that as the embodiment of Death, The End wants to destroy everything because it already knows that everything will one day...but I think The End is doing it prematurely instead of waiting for everything to die and so it's the bad guy.

You know as a side tangent, a part of me wants to spend some cash on Ian Flynn's QNA podcast to ask if he was ever told why The End. Because I'm aware that The End looks different to everyone because of how people perceive Death but the purple moon thing is kind of goofy to me
Click to expand...
so, normally, death should be neutral, not actively evil, the end is doing actively evil, and is conscious and has full knowledge of good and evil not like other villains.
 
Alexander said:
so, normally, death should be neutral, not actively evil, the end is doing actively evil, and is conscious and has full knowledge of good and evil not like other villains.
Click to expand...
Well if you go by the base game, this is what The End says during the final boss fight in the Japanese translation:

"I am the orchestrator and arbiter of order in the universe.
My light is judgment. I melt all things and return them to the primordial dust.
Nothing can escape the infinite light. Answer me, little life.
Only through My discipline and judgment can life everywhere find peace. Many lives are now at peace under my guidance.
Is it thy bloated ego that makes thee choose that path?
Is it the aspiration of life to find the meaning of existence?
The stronger the aspiration that life embraces, the more thousands of tribulations will descend upon it.
Behold the many lives that flee and try to escape in the face of the hardships before them.
Life, except for Me, is an entity that cannot overcome its own fragile mind.
Life is oblivious to the ignorance that makes it believe only it does not make mistakes.
There is no such thing as an absolute constant in the universe.
Only a future of stupor awaits us in the face of irrationality and absurdity.
When judgment comes, reality will be revealed. What did you crave, what did you discern, what did you question, what did you ponder, what did you accomplish?
I hereby seal this planet forever.
My attunement is the ruling of fate on everything that exists in this universe.
Since time immemorial, it has been ordained that aspiring life forms will come to this end, and that there is no way to challenge thine foolishness. Hear, I say, the chirps of darkness that lurk in thine heartbeats.
Life is to stagnate and enter its twilight. But thou wilt go on? It is a choice that is hard to understand.
Stop the nonsense now. This is the last warning.
Indeed. This was decided from ordination.
It has been repeated time and time again.
I see. Is the meaning of thy existence in this universe?
Canst thou devote thy being to that aspiration which guides life?
Something is about to happen. Something that transcends law and time. Is this the beginning of evolution?
I see. So that is what the universe is, what life is."

So the difference between The End in the English and Japanese version is that the former is very malevolent and knows what it's doing is wrong but does it anyway to cause destruction while the later is more of a force of nature that does what it does to bring "peace" to a chaotic universe, and unlike the English version it seems to take its loss gracefully and learns what life and hope mean.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
So the difference between The End in the English and Japanese version is that the former is very malevolent and knows what it's doing is wrong but does it anyway to cause destruction while the later is more of a force of nature that does what it does to bring "peace" to a chaotic universe, and unlike the English version it seems to take its loss gracefully and learns what life and hope mean.
Click to expand...
yeah,i kinda understand that,but i prefer the end to be more ''evil''and not like,what you described.
 
Alexander said:
yeah,i kinda understand that,but i prefer the end to be more ''evil''and not like,what you described.
Click to expand...
I'm of the complete 180 opposite opinion to be honest, I think The End is more interesting as an antagonist when he's not some generic malicious god and more of a neutral force of nature that destroys things not out of cruel intent but out of necessity for the sake of balancing existence. Regardless if it's a villain in your eyes or not because of its actions, it has better motivation for what it does IMO in the Japanese dub.
 
Last edited:
Imo Sonic should've lost his Cyber boost after beating Tethered Supreme and be unable to get it back, but after his plea to the Ancients, they would give him one final Cyber boost to his Super Form so that he could battle The End without Sage Supreme.
 
Was looking at the final Egg Blaster calc again and noticed that it uses Centaurus because it’s the closest constellation to Earth. But, there are other constellations that overall are closer to Earth, even if their closest star is further than the Centauris (like Southern Cross, which at most is less than 400 LY away). Shouldn’t they be the basis if the idea is looking for the closest group of stars overall?
 
I don't think it needs to be recalced again, the calc is accurate and it's ultimately an assumption either way with a dozen ways to calc it.
 
Riddle me this
SPOILER_1698018800479194.png
 
Theuser789 said:
The timeline split seems to have been soft-retcon.
Click to expand...
It was. There was even an early statement around Forces time that said there was no timeline split. Then in another one they said there was. It was really just pure confusion like the Two Worlds thing.
 
Chianli said:
Riddle me this
SPOILER_1698018800479194.png
Click to expand...
Btw, reading that interview, it kind of implies that characters other than Sonic can't move at mach 1 and they only keep up with Sonic because he doesn't do that all the time lol

In Sonic Superstars, if Sonic runs at the speed of sound, how do Tails, Amy, and Knuckles keep up with him?!

Iizuka: Ha! Well, Sonic can run at the speed of sound, but that doesn't mean he always does...
 
Executor_N0 said:
Btw, reading that interview, it kind of implies that characters other than Sonic can't move at mach 1 and they only keep up with Sonic because he doesn't do that all the time lol

In Sonic Superstars, if Sonic runs at the speed of sound, how do Tails, Amy, and Knuckles keep up with him?!

Iizuka: Ha! Well, Sonic can run at the speed of sound, but that doesn't mean he always does...
Click to expand...
Clearly mach 1 in the Sonicverse is different to mach 1 IRL lol. Kinda reminds me a lot of how several DC/Marvel characters are repeatedly stated to be "peak human physically" and don't have "powers" both in universe and by WoG yet repeatedly preform superhuman feats everyday, authors do be funny when it comes to feats Vs statements but it's not their job (99.9% of the time) to power-scale.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
Did you guys know there’s arguments that Game Sonic experienced Archie?
Click to expand...
I have heard of such arguments, heck I even remember someone sharing a statement from Ian Flynn where he was asked who'd win between Game and Archie Sonic and he claimed they were equal in power, but I think the biggest turn off from those arguments to me are that the things Game and Archie Sonic go through are so different from one another that it's almost like comparing DBS Goku to CC Goku from Heroes because both experienced similar things yet are so different from each other that they aren't close
 
omegabronic said:
Yeah, it is so blatlant clear of how not true it is lol
Click to expand...
Some are surprisingly “okay” and some are just really flawed.

For example of an okay one, there’s been an argument that Game Sonic experienced worlds collide because Sega had apparently said the characters in it are from their respective video game universes and the fact that the comics state worlds collide happens at the end of Sonic Generations (and they state it’s the game continuity).

Other examples are some Archie Sonic comics being stated to be tie ins to the games? I think that’s not too bad.

An example of a laughably bad one is apparently Sonic jumping from the games to the comics when that’s not meant to be taken literally.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I have heard of such arguments, heck I even remember someone sharing a statement from Ian Flynn where he was asked who'd win between Game and Archie Sonic and he claimed they were equal in power, but I think the biggest turn off from those arguments to me are that the things Game and Archie Sonic go through are so different from one another that it's almost like comparing DBS Goku to CC Goku from Heroes because both experienced similar things yet are so different from each other that they aren't close
Click to expand...
From what I observe from those arguments is you can argue Game Sonic having experienced some of the Archie events but not reconciling all of the events to the Game timeline (because that introduces a load of problems).
 
ThatBusyDude said:
fact that the comics state worlds collide happens at the end of Sonic Generations (and they state it’s the game continuity).
Click to expand...
They say that because after SGW, Archie's continuity was rewritten to fit more in line with the game continuity, and we know it doesn't work because in World Unites that follows that, they were dealing with Unleashed stuff long after that happened. It's not meant to say "it's the game continuity", but "most of what happened in the games happened here, but not all"
 
Executor_N0 said:
They say that because after SGW, Archie's continuity was rewritten to fit more in line with the game continuity, and we know it doesn't work because in World Unites that follows that, they were dealing with Unleashed stuff long after that happened. It's not meant to say "it's the game continuity", but "most of what happened in the games happened here, but not all"
Click to expand...
Worlds collide takes place in Game while worlds unite happens in Archie, that seems to be the implication here.

Ian Flynn does imply worlds collide takes place in the Game continuity

““If all you know about Sonic and Mega Man are the games, you’ll be able to pick up and jump into this story no problem whatsoever,” Flynn says. “Hopefully you will enjoy how we tell those stories and you’ll stick around for when we get back to the regular continuity when the crossover is finished.””

Mega Man/Sonic Worlds Collide interview

<p>We’re just two issues into the massive “Worlds Collide” crossover story (part three hits comic shops tomorrow!) and we already have a lengthy interview about the story, courtesty of Game Informer.</p>
news.capcomusa.com

The regular continuity obviously being Archie, with worlds collide taking place outside of that.

This is also supported by Ian Flynn saying his intention was that worlds collide Sonic was basically Game Sonic in a bumblekast.

The issue I have with your claim is that you’re saying that the Sonic Generations they mentioned isn’t the game continuity when they explicitly go out of their way to put “— the game” in it. They could’ve just said the events of Sonic Generations happened in Archie but instead they said it was the Game continuity’s events. It’s also a bit weird you say it’s supposed to be more in line with the game continuity yet characters exclusively from pre-SGW Archie appear in the post-SGW Archie and the timeline is jumbled up with Archie’s version of Unleashed happening after what is essentially Generations.

Sega also said that the characters from worlds collide are from the respective video game universes. Not the comic universes like Archie is (this statement was pre-reboot as well).
 
Last edited:
ThatBusyDude said:
The issue I have with your claim is that you’re saying that the Sonic Generations they mentioned isn’t the game continuity when they explicitly go out of their way to put “— the game” in it. They could’ve just said the events of Sonic Generations happened in Archie but instead they said it was the Game continuity’s events. It’s also a bit weird you say it’s supposed to be more in line with the game continuity yet characters exclusively from pre-SGW Archie appear in the post-SGW Archie and the timeline is jumbled up with Archie’s version of Unleashed happening after what is essentially Generations.

Sega also said that the characters from worlds collide are from the respective video game universes. Not the comic universes like Archie is.
Click to expand...
Because that is just what they do, basically all game stuff is mentioned as being from that game, even though the entire game timeline doesn't really fit in Archie Post-reboot because of the few instances they need to move on from it. Like Sonic Unleashed somehow happening after Colors and Generations. With the statement Worlds Collide being after Generations happened exactly during Worlds Unite and is explained as the effect of SGW rewriting all of their timelines.

By setting stuff, the Archie timeline was rewritten to be the Game timeline, that is for sure (With Megamon exactly being put many games ahead of when it took place to have use of fan-favorite characters for example), but I don't think it's commonly accepted that it's a two-way usage with Archie itself becoming the game timeline by the time of the crossover.
 
Executor_N0 said:
Because that is just what they do, basically all game stuff is mentioned as being from that game, even though the entire game timeline doesn't really fit in Archie Post-reboot because of the few instances they need to move on from it. Like Sonic Unleashed somehow happening after Colors and Generations. With the statement Worlds Collide being after Generations happened exactly during Worlds Unite and is explained as the effect of SGW rewriting all of their timelines.

By setting stuff, the Archie timeline was rewritten to be the Game timeline, that is for sure (With Megamon exactly being put many games ahead of when it took place to have use of fan-favorite characters for example), but I don't think it's commonly accepted that it's a two-way usage with Archie itself becoming the game timeline by the time of the crossover.
Click to expand...
They don’t need to mention the games though if it wasn’t from the games, they could’ve said that it’s set at the end of Sonic Generations while not specifying it’s from the games or a comic adaptation of Generations like another time, another place because by mentioning the games they’re implying that the Games experienced it and along with Sega saying that the characters from worlds collide are from their respective “video game” universes it seems to imply that Game Sonic experienced worlds collide and because of Sega’s own words it makes it a good case.

Archie wasn’t rewritten to be the Game timeline, sources suggest it was written to be more like the Game timeline after worlds collide and not before. If Archie became the timeline in worlds collide then they wouldn’t have launched the SGW that affected Archie.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Baabasaplar95
  • Locked
A simple Sonic fix
Replies
35
Views
3K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
HonestlyBored24
Tails’ #1 Hater (WNTTAT Sonic Matchmakin’ Thread)
Replies
6
Views
1K
H3110l12345I20
H3110l12345I20
Spinoirr
Shadow the Hedgehog vs Ruby Rose
Replies
12
Views
1K
Rayfire
Rayfire
Hypercyber37
Potentially 1-C Super Neo Metal Sonic
2 3
Replies
98
Views
3K
JJSliderman
JJSliderman
Ruler_Star_Kuma
Hedgehog Caught In A Hero Summoning!
Replies
31
Views
3K
ShakeResounding
ShakeResounding
Back
Top