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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

So basically Super Egg Robot is an outlier, aight.

Actually I can recall three instances of Eggman constructing machines that keep up with super forms on his own, so idk how many times it can happen and still be an outlier.
 
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List em, I only can think of Advance 1 and 2, which probably were canon stomps really (Unleashed intro shows Sonic can go super to beat mechs that are stronger than his base form, or if it's more coveniant), in fact, I don't see why they would even be super form level in the first place, outlier or not
 
Idk about scaling those bosses to Super Sonic considering they can’t hurt him

JJSliderman said:
So Eggman outpacing SS in the Eggmobile in Unleashed is also an outlier?
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Considering Base Sonic can catch up to and outpace the Egg Mobile… duh
 
Tbh, we generally use Discord to communicate. It’s easier to track the progress for different continuities’s work for the wiki when we have separate channels opened up for them.
 
So, question about Maginaryworld.

Is there anything implying that destroying the dreamers who create dreams for Maginaryworld would automatically destroy the existing dream worlds attached to said dreamers?
 
These calcs aren't accepted yet, and I feel they won't be for a while, but I would like to discuss who they'd scale to if they do get accepted. This would cover several continuities. So I'll break the comment up into sections.

OVA:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/OVA_Sonic_Mountain_Kick_recalc
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/OVA_Tails'_afraid_of_nothing
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/OVA_Big_Boom_Booms
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/OVA_icky_bugs

Scaling:

Sonic should have his Small City level feat of cutting a giant stalactite down to Large Town level. But that likely doesn't need to happen as we can likely just upgrade him to Island level via the Explosion generated from either Metal Sonic or Sonic when crashing into the enormous stalactite. He could also have an at least City Block level rating due to the fact we know Sonic can increase his AP drastically through curling up into a ball. After all, he went from not being able to harm Black Eggman with a kick, to chopping off his arm and then completely penetrated and destroying it by curling up into one.
Knuckles should scale to Town level via being capable of combatting Black Eggman who could tank a Town level explosion. I don't think he should be scaled to Sonic or Hyper Metal Sonic due to them being portrayed as being top tiers of the verse, with Knuckles thinking it's not a good idea for him and Tails to take on Metal even WITH the assistance of Sonic.
Tails should have at least Small Building/Building/Large Building level rating, with a likely City Block level rating due to scaling to and performing consistent feats in the building range with one feat possibly being City Block level. He shouldn't scale to Knuckles or Sonic as he isn't capable of feats in the movies even close to comparable to them. Tails couldn't harm Black Eggman, and was afraid of him, and while he did want to help Sonic fight Metal, that doesn't show he's comparable. It just shows that he wants to help Sonic who's being battered by Metal Sonic. So if Meta Sonic > Sonic > Tails, why should we scale him to that level?
Black Eggman should be Town level via tanking a Town level blast, self-explanatory.
Metal Sonic should either be downgraded to Large Town level, or upgraded to Island level (Or Large Island level depending on the end that gets accepted)

Also, it may be possible to calculate a better lifting strength for the characters using Black Eggman's height I calculated in my post as opposed to the height calculated in the original calc for their current lifting strength.

IDW:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/Metal_Sonic_slaps_large_boat_fleetship
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/Silver_trash_compactor
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/Super_Silver,_Magneto_Rip-off

Scaling:

Base High Tiers should ALL scale to Class K Lifting Strength for breaking out of Master Overlord's grip which is a shared feat. Metal Overlord should have an
Silver should have Class G or T Lifting Strength via Psychokinesis for the second calculation (Likely T since he pulled off a Class G feat with just one of his hands which is already close to Class T anyways). If anyone else manages to overpower his Psychokinesis, they should also scale to this, should that come up.
Super Neo/Metal Overlord should have an at least Class M lifting strength stat for casually pushing an airship away. An at least Class G or T rating due to being powered by the Master Emerald which should make him superior to Silver's Psychokinesis. A likely/possibly Class E for being a powered by the Master Emerald, meaning he should be on the same level as Super Silver who pulled off a Class E feat, however, I'll leave that up to debate since it was Super Silver's psychokinesis and not just regular strength. Since the verse seems to depict his Psychokinesis > regular lifting strength of others, this is arguable, but I think they should scale since Super Forms seems to be comparable in every aspect on average. I think a likely rating would be alright.
Super Silver should have Class E lifting strength for sure
Super Forms should have at least Class G or T Lifting Strength due to being superior to Base Silver, and a likely Class E rating for reasons listed in Metal Overlord's reasoning. Super Forms should ALL be upgraded to Large Planet level via scaling to Super Silver who generated Large Planet level KE. Extra justification can be that Super Forms > War Topaz which was stated to be capable of Crushing Earth when charged by Super Sonic, which is evident when Sonic charges it until it explodes and warps him and yet he's fine afterwords (Albeit with amnesia). The description of what he tanked is essentially the same for what Starline described, which is space-time warping which would crush earth, and Sonic described it as a space warping explosion IIRC.

Sonic X:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/Sonic_X_Shell_Cracker
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LaserPrecision/MFTL+_Sonic_X

If the low-end gets accepted, this calc should either ALSO be linked to Super Form tier characters profiles as extra justification, or replace the old justification altogether as it yields a superior result regardless of which way you cut it. If Dwarf Star level gets accepted, Super Sonic should have an extra tier for Season 3 that places him at that level.
Super Form Tier characters should also be upgraded to MFTL+ as evident from the calculation

Let me know what you all think.
 
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Theuser789 said:
Why would Super Sonic be stronger in season 3 versus all others? I don't recall him growing stronger through the series
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That's fair. Maybe the old key can be scrapped altogether. I always had the assumption that the Super Forms could become stronger, not through Base Form increases, but rather from experience using the form as the Emerald grant the user limitless power that can likely be further tapped into via experience with it. That was my interpretation of how it worked anyways.
 
Fireld said:
Wow! You sure like calcing, don't you? Magneto would probably eat his heart if he saw Silver's feat. BTW the 2nd link ain't working
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Having issues with it for some reason. Even after updating the comment, it still won't link to the blog. The blog's still up, but I don't know what the issue with that is.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Having issues with it for some reason. Even after updating the comment, it still won't link to the blog. The blog's still up, but I don't know what the issue with that is.
Click to expand...
I think i might know what's the problem. You didn't include the "!" at the end as part of the link(since it's black while the rest of the line is blue) & when you click on it, the URL of the error page misses the "!" too.
 
LaserPrecision said:
That's fair. Maybe the old key can be scrapped altogether. I always had the assumption that the Super Forms could become stronger, not through Base Form increases, but rather from experience using the form as the Emerald grant the user limitless power that can likely be further tapped into via experience with it. That was my interpretation of how it worked anyways.
Click to expand...
The problem is that this isn't show in Sonic X, in fact I don't think Sonic is even show to get stronger in base without rings and shit
 
I'm doing the recalcs and realized I'm also going to need to get a height for Classic Tails as his Modern height is 80 cm which is larger than Metal Sonic. So it might take a bit longer than I expected while I try to find out his height.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I'm doing the recalcs and realized I'm also going to need to get a height for Classic Tails as his Modern height is 80 cm which is larger than Metal Sonic. So it might take a bit longer than I expected while I try to find out his height.
Click to expand...
that pixel scaling hit diff
 
Alright, all the OVA Calculations I have linked have been edited to accommodate for Classic Sonic's height, and LUCKILY didn't change too much. It did make Tails being Building level consistent through and through though.

Theuser789 said:
The problem is that this isn't show in Sonic X, in fact I don't think Sonic is even show to get stronger in base without rings and shit
Click to expand...
No no, I was saying that him making his Base stronger DOESN'T affect the Super Form, but rather the experience he has. I came to that conclusion from the games since that seems to be depicted. Obviously, Sonic X isn't the games, but based on it. So I assumed it'd be fair to assume it applied to some extent. I just thought it would be weird to assume Super Sonic isn't even 1 bit superior to his Season 1 counterpart. But I'm fine with getting rid of Large Planet level altogether if that end gets accepted.
 
Sonic X is very different from the games so I think we should only assume things that are in the show itself
 
Couldn't we assume Super Sonic from Season 3 is superior to Season 1 Super Sonic by the difference in power from the feats alone? Dwarf Star level is fairly above Large Planet level (Over a 6000x difference). I think that seems fair since the justification they have for the tier is being superior to the Eclipse Cannon with 6 Emeralds due to being empowered by 7. Meaning the Super Forms unquantifiably scale above it (Not like we could round it up to the next tier or anything) whereas this feat is potentially clean and cut Dwarf Star level, and SIGNIFICANTLY superior to the feat that he currently upscales from.
 
Because there' nothing narrative wise that shows him became stronger? Especially since he upscales from a feat that isn't his own feat even?
 
Theuser789 said:
Because there' nothing narrative wise that shows him became stronger? Especially since he upscales from a feat that isn't his own feat even?
Click to expand...
Didn't Super Sonic and Super Shadow struggle to stop the Space Colony Ark from crashing into Earth which based on Eggman's statement would 'destroy the earth'? I think that's enough narratively to show Super Sonic and Super Shadow's power capped in the Planetary range (In this case Large Planet level) in the second Season (Showdown in Space).



Super Sonic and Super Shadow weren't able to physically stop it, and had to resort to Chaos Control in order to stop it.
 
I mean there’s nothing stopping the Space Colony ARK from being High 5-A via scaling and simultaneously powerful enough to destroy the Earth.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Didn't Super Sonic and Super Shadow struggle to stop the Space Colony Ark from crashing into Earth which based on Eggman's statement would 'destroy the earth'? I think that's enough narratively to show Super Sonic and Super Shadow's power capped in the Planetary range (In this case Large Planet level) in the second Season (Showdown in Space).
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That's just hax, they struggled on using Chaos Control, this happens in the games and we don't limit Sonic to tier 5 because of it
 
Theuser789 said:
That's just hax, they struggled on using Chaos Control, this happens in the games and we don't limit Sonic to tier 5 because of it
Click to expand...
They resorted to using hax after failing to physically overwhelm it after putting their hands out. It's only after Shadow pulls out off his inhibitor rings that they use Chaos Control. As for the game, this isn't the game, I thought you said Sonic X was different enough to not make comparisons. You said we should only judge by what's shown in the show.

I think if Super Sonic and Super Shadow struggled against a force that could destroy the planet (I don't think that limits it to Baseline Planetary, rather in Super Sonic and Super Shadow's AP range at the time which based on our calcs is Large Planet level to a low extent), that they should be limited to that in the earlier season. When they're shown performing a feat that's THOUSANDS of times stronger, I think they should reasonably have a key for it rather than completely replacing Large Planet level with Dwarf Star level (Under the assumption that end is accepted).
 
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