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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Tbh it’s kinda hard to tell in the Excalibur fight, he just dodged some orbs, clashed with Dark Queen, and then lays the smackdown with soul surge. Is it the part at the end? Because I can’t really see any barriers there.

Also, can Sonic resist soul destruction? Time Eater stuff is somewhat unclear.
 
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The_one_you_least_expect said:
Why?
Click to expand...
all are mostly for the "canon" beyond other things.
A lot of people like Prime, the problem is that Prime being canonical would mean that the sonic we see is the sonic of the original line and not a sub-version.

of course, others have less to do with the canon, but the ones that sound the most are those of the canon.
 
It's been over a week since Season 2. Aren't I late to the party?
Anyway, Sonic Prime was pretty interesting.

I liked Rusty & Black Rose's characterization.
Worried that Dread is gonna be like a Team Rocket in Season 3.
Loved Chaos Sonic's troll-y characterization. He's hilarious, & I love seeing a conceited hero or villain get tormented, even if I do care for them.
Surprised about Sonic's lack of empathy regarding Nine & their goals with the shards. I do wonder how they'll resolve that conflict of interest. Restore the status quo cast? Merge the Shard-clones with the originals? Status quo plus the Shatterverse get to exist?
I feel ashamed that I GENUINELY forgot The Grim existed for most of the season. I kept wondering & counting on my head, thinking to myself there was only FOUR Shard Worlds, thinking maybe they'd put the void to use.
Speaking of, what happened to that life-consuming darkness void or whatever that took Shadow's Chaos Emerald?
Heck, where are the other 7 Chaos Emeralds?
Each Shard seems to have distinct powers. That of No Place seems to grant Electricity Manipulation, the Boscage Maze's does Plant Manipulation, etc..

What does The Grim's do?
What does Ghost Hill's do?

I really wish they'd stop matching Sonic against Babble. I know he's the main combatant, but eh. I wonder if they could've pitted him against the other doctors more.
I guess it's good they had 5 Eggman-likes, so that they could diversify Sonic's opponent a little.

Man, it's hard to get into it from a Versus Debating standpoint when having it be game canon means practically all the feats are worthless.

Honestly, I was surprised that the Chaos Council's "residual Prism Energy" never ran out. Likewise for Chaos Sonic's battery.
If nothing else, they've got very energy-efficient tech.
 
Imaginym said:
Honestly, I was surprised that the Chaos Council's "residual Prism Energy" never ran out. Likewise for Chaos Sonic's battery.
If nothing else, they've got very energy-efficient tech.
Click to expand...
The energy of the paradox prism, even being incomplete, is said to be incalculable or unlimited (at least in the Spanish version)
 
Alexander said:
The energy of the paradox prism, even being incomplete, is said to be incalculable or unlimited (at least in the Spanish version)
Click to expand...
(IDK if it matters, but I was watching the English version.)
Anyway, in the circumstances, it was about the Chaos Council's tech's energy supply when they had 0 shards. They didn't have access to ANY physical part of the Paradox Prism at the time, just their apparent "residual energy". Plus, we later see an energy meter that showed it depleting when they used Shard Energy to superpower their robots in Ghost Hill. That, along with their 0 shard supply of "residual" energy makes me think it's finite.

Also, I don't like saying this, especially not knowing the context where it was called incalculable in the Spanish version, but being unable to be calculated doesn't mean infinite, & being called infinite could be hyperbole. A 10 years supply of potato chips is "practically" "infinite" for any one person, that doesn't mean it can't run out.
 
Imaginym said:
Also, I don't like saying this, especially not knowing the context where it was called incalculable in the Spanish version, but being unable to be calculated doesn't mean infinite, & being called infinite could be hyperbole. A 10 years supply of potato chips is "practically" "infinite" for any one person, that doesn't mean it can't run out.
Click to expand...
there was a mention about it in the ENG version?also,it was with 3 shards,not even the complete paradox prism,and remind you,this guys are equally has smart has eggman.
 
Alexander said:
there was a mention about it in the ENG version?also,it was with 3 shards,not even the complete paradox prism,and remind you,this guys are equally has smart has eggman.
Click to expand...
IIRC, the scene I was thinking of: It was some time when Sonic & Nine were escaping New Yoke City with the case full of shards. Sonic asked Nine why The Chaos Counil's tech hasn't powered down yet, Nine said something about residual energy from the shards.
& yes, only 3 Shards. Ghost Hill's was in Ghost Hill, & The Grim's was in The Grim. It wasn't possible -Or at least, not reasonable- for all of the Shards to be in the same place at the time. IDK why you're bringing up the quantity.

Also, being as smart as Eggman seems like a big claim, considering Sonic Prime apparently uses Game Canon; As a result of that, I'd wager Eggman has far more Intelligence feats than the entire Chaos Council combined, & could outsmart them in his sleep. (& I assume you don't mean Dr. Babble is as smart as Eggman.)
What's the basis of saying they're as smart as him?

Whatever line or scene you're claiming is in the English version, please direct me to footage for it or something, please? I'm unsure if we're even thinking of the same thing.
 
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Alexander said:
Cap 13
Click to expand...
Episode 13?
So, Season 2, Episode 5, A Madness to their Methods?
Here's a transcript of that episode: https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=1645&t=64185

What part were you thinking of?

I was thinking of a part from Season 2, Episode 7, Cracking Down:
Sonic: Why aren't they powering down? We have the Shards.
Nine: Residual prism energy stored in the Mothership. They're not powering down any time soon.

 
here exactly:
You're harnessing the energy of all three Shards?
That much power is...
Incalculable? Indeed.
'm a strict vegetarian.
We both know that the other members of the Council won't stop Sonic.
They lack vision and imagination, unlike you.
You think I have vision and imagination? Perhaps.
Or perhaps you're just a stupid fox.
Alone. Useless. Pathetic.
I'm pathetic? You're the one with unlimited power, and all you can think to do is build a bigger robot.
 
Alexander said:
here exactly:
You're harnessing the energy of all three Shards?
That much power is...
Incalculable? Indeed.
'm a strict vegetarian.
We both know that the other members of the Council won't stop Sonic.
They lack vision and imagination, unlike you.
You think I have vision and imagination? Perhaps.
Or perhaps you're just a stupid fox.
Alone. Useless. Pathetic.
I'm pathetic? You're the one with unlimited power, and all you can think to do is build a bigger robot.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah.

That's regarding the energy of all 3 shards physically present.

I was concerned with how long RESIDUAL energy left behind from the shards can last.

In theory, each individual Shard might continuously output energy -& they ostensibly magnify this output when together, especially with 4 or more- but what you & I were thinking of was for different circumstances in the show:

What I was thinking of:
1. The Chaos Council has 0 shards physically present. All 3 shards are separate from The Chaos Council & their technology.
2. They have residual energy left behind from the Shards, but not access to the Shards themselves.

What you were thinking of:
1. The Chaos Council has 3 shards physically present, & are currently being harnessed by The Chaos Council & their technology.
2. They likely don't need to worry about residual energy, because the shards are currently outputting plenty of energy for their needs.


For the scenario on my mind, i had been wondering why they hadn't run out of energy, even at the finale; We have statements & a visual showing that the residual energy supply is finite & can be depleted.
The Chaos Council's energy not depleting in those circumstances CAN'T be because of the Shards -Whatever the logistics & mathematics of Shard energy is- because they DIDN'T HAVE ANY at that time.

Presumably, if you have ZERO shards, residual Shard energy is a finite resource.
If you have 1.... Well, I don't remember our information regarding the capabilities for only a single shard.

& if there's multiple Shards, it's apparently "Incalculable" or "Unlimited power".

But these may be hyperbole or from perspective; The Chaos Council have never EXISTED with access to multiple Shards, nor has Nine. It'd be a huge scale of a resource, & they haven't worked with that scale before, AFAIK.
& "Unlimited" could just mean that it outputs as much or more than they can foresee needing, indefinitely.
Just because something is constantly outputting more than you need doesn't mean it's infinite; Niagara Falls pours more than enough water to fill someone's bathtub every day, but that doesn't mean Niagara Falls pours infinite water.
In other words, something could exist for an infinite amount of time, & regularly or constantly output energy while doing so, but output finite amounts of energy during each instance of its output during that existence.


Sorry for any bother.


(Man, I just wanted to talk about Sonic Prime, not argue about infinities again.)
 
Imaginym said:
& if there's multiple Shards, it's apparently "Incalculable" or "Unlimited power".

But these may be hyperbole or from perspective; The Chaos Council have never EXISTED with access to multiple Shards, nor has Nine. It'd be a huge scale of a resource, & they haven't worked with that scale before, AFAIK.
& "Unlimited" could just mean that it outputs as much or more than they can foresee needing, indefinitely.
Just because something is constantly outputting more than you need doesn't mean it's infinite; Niagara Falls pours more than enough water to fill someone's bathtub every day, but that doesn't mean Niagara Falls pours infinite water.
In other words, something could exist for an infinite amount of time, & regularly or constantly output energy while doing so, but output finite amounts of energy during each instance of its output during that existence.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't think it's hyperbole, considering that prisms can create things from what the user can imagine, and not from programming or something like that.
Also, well, I don't know, they create universes¡
 
Alexander said:
Yeah, I don't think it's hyperbole, considering that prisms can create things from what the user can imagine, and not from programming or something like that.
Also, well, I don't know, they create universes¡
Click to expand...
The Paradox Prism as a whole being shattered created the Shatterverses, but the Shards did stuff like Reality Warping on scale of enlarging a robot or making a city's worth of buildings, which does not equal making a universe.
Plus, didn't they do the modifying the robots stuff with the Shards hooked up to a machine, & for a lot of it, off-screen? AFAIK, it wasn't wish-granting, but the power of the Shards being harnessed through technology.

IMHO, more solid evidence for Universe Level Shards or whatever is the implied threat of reality being destroyed or such if the portals remain open too long.

But either way I DON'T REALLY CARE.

As shown here:
Imaginym said:
It's been over a week since Season 2. Aren't I late to the party?
Anyway, Sonic Prime was pretty interesting.

I liked Rusty & Black Rose's characterization.
Worried that Dread is gonna be like a Team Rocket in Season 3.
Loved Chaos Sonic's troll-y characterization. He's hilarious, & I love seeing a conceited hero or villain get tormented, even if I do care for them.
Surprised about Sonic's lack of empathy regarding Nine & their goals with the shards. I do wonder how they'll resolve that conflict of interest. Restore the status quo cast? Merge the Shard-clones with the originals? Status quo plus the Shatterverse get to exist?
I feel ashamed that I GENUINELY forgot The Grim existed for most of the season. I kept wondering & counting on my head, thinking to myself there was only FOUR Shard Worlds, thinking maybe they'd put the void to use.
Speaking of, what happened to that life-consuming darkness void or whatever that took Shadow's Chaos Emerald?
Heck, where are the other 7 Chaos Emeralds?
Each Shard seems to have distinct powers. That of No Place seems to grant Electricity Manipulation, the Boscage Maze's does Plant Manipulation, etc..

What does The Grim's do?
What does Ghost Hill's do?

I really wish they'd stop matching Sonic against Babble. I know he's the main combatant, but eh. I wonder if they could've pitted him against the other doctors more.
I guess it's good they had 5 Eggman-likes, so that they could diversify Sonic's opponent a little.

Man, it's hard to get into it from a Versus Debating standpoint when having it be game canon means practically all the feats are worthless.

Honestly, I was surprised that the Chaos Council's "residual Prism Energy" never ran out. Likewise for Chaos Sonic's battery.
If nothing else, they've got very energy-efficient tech.
Click to expand...
I was concerned about the Chaos Council's energy capabilities from their clearly limited supply when they had ZERO Shards!
Not the capabilities for 1 or more Shards or for circumstances where 1 or more shards are accessible!

I wanted to talk about Sonic Prime, not anything to do with infinities!

Apologies if I have been or am beng bothersome or unpleasant.
 
Issen_Mk_III said:
Wow,there's still people who think Sega Sonic is only mach 1 when there's a mountain of evidence that proves otherwise.
Click to expand...
where?who?kawa?and what sustification they invented.
oh wait,let me know,it is ''if sonic was [put a specific speed higher than what they believe]then he will be OP''
 
Alexander said:
where?who?kawa?and what sustification they invented.
oh wait,let me know,it is ''if sonic was [put a specific speed higher than what they believe]then he will be OP''
Click to expand...
Someone named @SuperGuy551 on Twitter. Yeah,he was bitching about the time dilation feat in Prime season 2,saying that it ruins canon because he's not that fast. Then again,I don't think dude is capable of decent takes.
 
Am I the only one who thinks this whole 300x multiplier in speed stuff for the spin dash is kind of...ridiculous?
 
LaserPrecision said:
Ridiculous in what way?
Click to expand...
It's based on calcing small distances in how the robots travel compared to how the characters in spin-dash move (at least IIRC).

I'm not doubting that it's a blitz-level speed amp, but now literally every fight with Sonic or another character is "300x boost GG", using a move that has no confirmed in-story multiplier on that sheer scope.
 
Eseseso said:
It's based on calcing small distances in how the robots travel compared to how the characters in spin-dash move (at least IIRC).

I'm not doubting that it's a blitz-level speed amp, but now literally every fight with Sonic or another character is "300x boost GG", using a move that has no confirmed in-story multiplier on that sheer scope.
Click to expand...
That's like the most accurate way to get a multiplier for a speed amp, lol. Like, the result is big, sure, but the most accurate way to displace the increase is to show how fast it makes the user compared to the opponent. It gives us the exact difference.

Personally, this isn't a big deal to me. A "blitz multiplier" is very subjective tbh. Some would say as low as 3x, some would say as high as 1000x. So I think it's better to go with what the math says. Especially since a 300x increase is pretty tame compared to other verses, like say DB which has a 500x increase for SSJ (or SSJ2? I forgot) that anyone can just throw out to similarly "GG" their opponent in match-ups. SEGA prolly doesn't wanna put an exact increase on it because it would be limiting, and the people of Sonic Team have said Sonic's speed is whatever the plot demands at the time. So it's easier to just portray Sonic's amps (Boost, Spin Dash, Super Peel Out, etc.) as giant multipliers vaguely without limiting themselves by going with a concrete number. Especially since they'd look inconsistent if they decided to keep changing that value every other game.
 
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