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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

I have a question
I can somewhat understand IDW Sonic (still iffy on it but I digress), but why the hell is Prime Sonic = Sega Sonic?

Using a few vague statements doesn't cut it for me at all, especially when it makes 0 sense for them to be the same.

For anyone arguing that Prime's behavior can be dismissed as happening in Sega's past, here's the problem with that:
Orbot and Cubot exist in Sonic Prime and Deven Mack, aka the VA for Sonic voices them.
Orbot was made by Eggman to kill time
The earliest robot resembling Orbot and likely the prototype version of him is this guy in Sonic Unleashed

You can't possibly convince me Sonic is anywhere near the Egotistical and cocky bastard he was in Prime, especially considering how Sonic was like during Sonic during Unleashed.
Also Cubot is there.

Somebody is gonna argue Colors Sonic = Prime... which if you even think about it, still makes no sense!
Sega Sonic and Prime Sonic are characterized almost completely differently, not even Pontaff Sonic is close to the Prime interpretation.

And if you need examples, there are people that highlight exactly why Prime should not be considered Sega Sonic.

Read this huge thread about Sega vs Prime and their differences:


If you try to use Iizuka's words, see this thread:


If you try to use the Prime Creator's words, see these:



If you ignore the threads and tweets you will not understand why I think Prime and Sega should be separated. And thus you shouldn't respond to this message. There are far too many inconsistencies in both lore, characterization and not even the W.O.G. necessarily support this notion.

I know it'll be a pain for editors to add a different page, but it's better to not spread misconceptions, we need to be accurate as possible.
 
Tbh I have issues with Prime too but not just for "canon" reasons but due to it enabling Netflix's notorious sunken cost business practice, I mean we all know Prime was greenlit for 24 episodes yet "S1" was just 8 episodes? Yeah no, WildBrain have indirectly confirmed on Twitter, Netflix needs major releases to still stay a float and thus they've started releasing new content in parts or halves to test audience engagement so they can either save money not publishing the rest of the series if viewership is low or make money by padding out the release time (thus insure viewers stay subscribed for more than one month) then publish the rest of the series to profit from the hype. Essentially if you try to wait until every episode comes out so you can binge watch it in one go, you may actually help cause your favourite show to get cancelled on Netflix because you didn't immediately watch it the instant a new episode came out and the rest of content is held hostage by Netflix execs.

It's certainly not consumer friendly but it works (yet another reason why the streaming service bubble needs to burst, pardon my tangent).
 
Last edited:
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Tbh I have issues with Prime too but not just for "canon" reasons but due to it enabling Netflix's notorious sunken cost business practice, I mean we all know Prime was greenlit for 24 episodes yet "S1" was just 8 episodes? Yeah no like the WildBrain have indirectly confirmed on Twitter, Netflix needs major releases to still stay a float and thus they started releasing new content in parts or halves to test audience engagement so they can either save money not publishing the rest of the series if viewership are low or make money by padding out the release time (thus insure viewers stay subscribed for more than one month) then publish the rest of the series to profit from the hype. Essentially if you try to wait until every episode comes out so you can binge watch it in one go, you might actually help cause your favourite show to get cancelled on Netflix because you didn't immediately watch it the instant a new episode came out and the rest of content is held hostage by Netflix execs.

It's certainly not consumer friendly but it works (yet another reason why the streaming service bubble needs to burst pardon the tangent).
Click to expand...
I've been hyped for Prime for a while and was sorely disappointed when I can't even like my favourite character (Sonic), because he's nothing like the character I like from the Main Series. Hurts more since Frontiers came out at the same time... and yeah.

It's even worse cause I would take Pontaff over Prime any day, and to see Sonic reduced to a bumbling idiot stings, but it's worse because Fans interpret statements to come to the conclusion that Prime = Sonic.

Prime being "canon" as likely just an alt timeline or dimension or whatever term they wanna use is perfectly fine, and I'm happy that's the case because implying Prime is the same guy as Sega Sonic is an insult to the characterization, since Sonic 1.
 
MysticMania said:
I feel Prime is canon. It has inconsistencies, but, Sonic usually unfortunately just does, so if official word is repeatedly saying it's canon, I'll go with it.
Click to expand...
Me saying Prime ≠ Sega Sonic doesn't mean it's non canon, as explained in the twitter threads I posted, Prime is more than likely just in a Classic Sonic type situation less than being the same person as Sega/Game Sonic

There are far too many inconsistencies, just saying "well Sonic has inconsistencies" doesn't justify them existing. These inconsistencies are huge and the W.O.G already imply otherwise. Iizuka is most likely referring to a multiverse less than the same Universe, and the creator of Prime heavily implies Prime is a whole new interpretation.

I also remember Ian saying that everything should be explained later, so we still have to wait.
So saying Prime = Game before any concrete word comes out is redundant.
 
Honestly I say the biggest problems in Prime are Sonic's friends rather than Sonic himself (though he's still pretty bad).

They're a bunch of ******* assholes for no reason, in fact Prime Sonic despite being an idiot is shown to be a good friend to them (which they don't deserve) so it goes against the premise of the goddamn show (which is bad to begin with as well).
 
BlastX said:
Honestly I say the biggest problems in Prime are Sonic's friends rather than Sonic himself (though he's still pretty bad).

They're a bunch of ******* assholes for no reason, in fact Prime Sonic despite being an idiot is shown to be a good friend to them (which they don't deserve) so it goes against the premise of the goddamn show (which is bad to begin with as well).
Click to expand...
This too, they blame Prime Sonic for everything.
Need to get that character development and plot going one way or another...
 
Tbh Prime Shadow is the best part of the show imo which is funny to me since he got like 5mins of screentime in 8 episodes and is clearly being used as hype bait judging by the promos (seems to be working too).

A reminder a free VN on Stream had the most consistent and faithful characterization of Shadow in the games since Colours DS (or Rivals 2, I forgot which one came out later).
 
Oh btw, regarding Knuckles knocking Super Sonic's lights out at the beginning of S3&K, how do y'all interpret that for scaling?
Most people, including me, have it as a canon scene with 0 problems, because Sonic was probably inexperienced and very unskilled with his Super form at the time, plus he was off guard.
 
BlastX said:
Here it's a massive outlier and not taken into consideration at all
Click to expand...
Tbh minus the Master Emerald power-null fanon that's still prevalent (alongside the timeline split and Metal Sonic being a robotzied Sonic from the bad future), I chalk it up typical rival trope hyping.

*Shadow using Chaos control to get the better of Sonic and leaving him to be arrested.

*Blaze trapping Knux under a boulder, swiping a emerald under Sonic's noise and regularly beating Eggman's mechs 1v1.

*Silver almost succeeding in killing Sonic and only being stopped by Amy's intervention.

*And Jet being a bird, that's it.
 
I mean, the Master Emerald Power Null is valid...it's just that he didn't know how to use it back then.

But aside from that you can't justify that moment when not only Knuckles loses hard to Super Sonic in their fight (and Base Sonic kicks his ass as well) but even in his story he can't put a dent into Super Mecha Sonic and can only damage him while he's detransformed.
 
BlastX said:
I mean, the Master Emerald Power Null is valid...it's just that he didn't know how to use it back then.

But aside from that you can't justify that moment when not only Knuckles loses hard to Super Sonic in their fight (and Base Sonic kicks his ass as well) but even in his story he can't put a dent into Super Mecha Sonic and can only damage him while he's detransformed.
Click to expand...
The thing is you can easily just say Sonic was inexperienced with his Super Form which is true because he had just unlocked it like... What.. Hours or days ago?
I forget how long apart Sonic 2 and 3 are.
Then Sonic gets stronger and more skilled throughout the game to the point where he can clap Base Knuckles as Super Sonic.
Super Mecha Sonic not being able to be hurt at all is a game mechanic though it does make sense.
 
BlastX said:
I mean, the Master Emerald Power Null is valid...it's just that he didn't know how to use it back then.

But aside from that you can't justify that moment when not only Knuckles loses hard to Super Sonic in their fight (and Base Sonic kicks his ass as well) but even in his story he can't put a dent into Super Mecha Sonic and can only damage him while he's detransformed.
Click to expand...
JJSliderman said:
Someday, Base Sonic beating Perfect Chaos will not be an outlier.
Click to expand...
Base Knuckles is able to canonically survive super forms multiple times; Super Sonic, Super Mecha and Super Neo Metal so...

Also there's Base Shadow catching Super Neo Metal off guard then beating him via power-null, Base Sonic surviving blows from Super Neo Metal, Time Eater and The Titans plus Base Sonic defeating Perfect Chaos not to mention the speed scaling implications.

Yup this is one major slippery slope, I did warn y'all about this can of worms, it's only a matter of time until it gets opened and true chaos is unleashed.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
The thing is you can easily just say Sonic was inexperienced with his Super Form which is true because he had just unlocked it like... What.. Hours or days ago?
I forget how long apart Sonic 2 and 3 are.
Then Sonic gets stronger and more skilled throughout the game to the point where he can clap Base Knuckles as Super Sonic.
Super Mecha Sonic not being able to be hurt at all is a game mechanic though it does make sense.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense because would have lost his Super Form and the Emeralds in Sonic 2 if he fought well...anytime he went against Eggman, Knuckles should practically have hurt himself hitting Super Sonic.

It's not a game mechanic though, Super Forms have Invencibility that only other Chaos Energy users can break through
 
BlastX said:
That doesn't make sense because would have lost his Super Form and the Emeralds in Sonic 2 if he fought well...anytime he went against Eggman, Knuckles should practically have hurt himself hitting Super Sonic.

It's not a game mechanic though, Super Forms have Invencibility that only other Chaos Energy users can break through
Click to expand...
That's simple, Knuckles > Eggman's machines in Sonic 2.
 
That's not what I was referring to, if Sonic is so inexperienced with the Emeralds that someone who's fodder for his Super Form manages to knock them out of him, then in Sonic 2 where he is even more inexperienced he should have lost them.
 
BlastX said:
That's not what I was referring to, if Sonic is so inexperienced with the Emeralds that someone who's fodder for his Super Form manages to knock them out of him, then in Sonic 2 where he is even more inexperienced he should have lost them.
Click to expand...
I kind of see your point.
Ngl I will never understand why they didn't just make the Death Egg bosses be able to give Super Sonic a bit of a fight, so that you could still use it there.
I mean, that's the whole point after all, it's supposed to be a reward that helps you through tough bosses.
But it'd be weird if his new form was getting matched by random bosses.
 
I kinda like the fanon that base Sonic gained green eyes as a sign of his body becoming accustomed to chaos energy which came from Super Sonic having green eyes in S3&K (I believe the Archie comics did something similar too) funny enough in Maina, Super Sonic losses the green eyes which in turn was used as evidence for the timeline split theory lol.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
The thing is you can easily just say Sonic was inexperienced with his Super Form which is true because he had just unlocked it like... What.. Hours or days ago?
I forget how long apart Sonic 2 and 3 are.
Then Sonic gets stronger and more skilled throughout the game to the point where he can clap Base Knuckles as Super Sonic.
Super Mecha Sonic not being able to be hurt at all is a game mechanic though it does make sense.
Click to expand...
No other character has ever displayed trouble using a Super form, though. They just fwash and stuff, and, then they're Super. I don't feel it would make much sense for Sonic to struggle getting used to Super, when seemingly everyone else can with no problem.
 
MysticMania said:
No other character has ever displayed trouble using a Super form, though. They just fwash and stuff, and, then they're Super. I don't feel it would make much sense for Sonic to struggle getting used to Super, when seemingly everyone else can with no problem.
Click to expand...
Shadow’s first time using Super had him almost die by the end of it.
 
JJSliderman said:
Shadow’s first time using Super had him almost die by the end of it.
Click to expand...
I mean, he just pulled off a massive Chaos Control after a big fight, not to mention he just fought the Biolizard before that Super Form fight.

And it's stated in Super Sonic's Sonic Channel bio that Super Forms consume a lot of energy.
 
Because by that point he was well rested, the most work out he's had was passing through the final part of Cannon's Core and was more used to his Super Form at the time.

That's different from Shadow, experience does help a bit with it but Shadow had external factors that made it much harder for him to bear his Super Form.

And for all we know he was tired too but just didn't show it, it's not like he had anything else that was taxing for him after that.
 
It is not more simply to just Say that they can scale?it is not Say by Sonic that he grows stronger every second?he Even manager to beat infinite with the power of a proto ruby that can create a infinite realm.
Why don't giving them the definitive of the dup and Say they can scale?
 
There's no way around the Knuckles thing guys, I've tried excusing it for years using "inexperience" and "off guard" and all I got are headcanons.

Somebody posted a video on this and convinced me that it was part to Knuckles' own power that allowed him to knock him out of super, as official material suggests.
Of course this doesn't mean Knuckles > Super forms every time, Sonic got stronger over the course of S3&k and matched Knuckles in the end.
 
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