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Sonic Forces: Infinite AP Revision (Cue Infinite's Theme)

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JJSliderman said:
Sonic at his strongest in base always being drastically inferior to weakest Super Sonic is very clearly not true, we have two occasions where a Super Sonic tier opponent has been fought and defeated by base Sonic.
Click to expand...
Not to mention Sonic beating Low 2-C Perfect Chaos in base.
 
I find myself disagreeing. Had Sonic go in Super to defeat him, then sure. But if you imply that he's stronger than Solaris, then you're essentially saying that somehow base Sonic in Forces became stronger than 3 Super Forms outta nowhere.

At best it'd apply to enemies faced from base Sonic but I'm unsure about that too.
 
StrymULTRA said:
then you're essentially saying that somehow base Sonic in Forces became stronger than 3 Super Forms outta nowhere.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna take a moment and say this...

"Then you're essentially saying-" Is a bad argument. Like, legit, I'd say it's not even an argument. It's the incredulous belief that this somehow can't happen, when the scaling itself is proof that such a thing happened.

Others have provided more solid reasoning, such as the scaling creating an inconsistency with Sonic Frontiers, for instance, but I would not consider what you're saying to be a valid argument.

Besides, I've mostly moved on from 2-B to 2-A. Below is my current proposal:
CloverDragon03 said:
Also, question: If 2-B to 2-A doesn't work out, how would you feel about Low 2-C? The justification would be as follows (with appropriate links, obviously):

Universe level+ (Referred to as Dr. Eggman's ultimate weapon, making him stronger than any previous inventions made by him, which would include the Super Egg Robot)
Click to expand...
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I'mma be completely honest and say that aside from things already said by someone else, what's being said here is either:
  1. Entirely unconfirmed with no backing
  2. A classic instance of "coulda, woulda, shoulda" with nothing concrete
I still maintain that even if 2-B to 2-A Infinite doesn't work, being Eggman's ultimate weapon would make him Low 2-C via scaling above the Super Egg Robot. The "counters" against this are purely conjectural
Click to expand...

just wanna say i've been a long believer in Low 2-C Base Sonic
 
Actually thinking about it, couldn't we use the same reasoning to upgrade like, the Egg Dragoon and the Colors mecha? I think them being stated to be Eggman's strongest inventions is the reason why they're 4-A in the first place
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Y E P
Click to expand...
at this point i think you can just put them in the op and edit it to make it clear that it is a low 2-C upgrade, also, all the eggman machines that are above low 2-C he made with someone else, so that would support that the statement covers his actually machines, aka the low 2-C ones
 
JJSliderman said:
I think that should be saved for a dedicated Low 2-C thread, because on its own it could be considered an outlier.
Click to expand...
we have multiple instances of mechs being called to be "eggmans strongest bots" aka they would also upscale from the super eggman robot, also it can't be an outlier since that is the only notable feat that post death egg imprisonment sonic has, so it can't be an outlier
 
The Phantom Ruby was regarded as superior to the Master Emerald, so there is that technically. Not saying I agree with 2-B/2-A Base Sonic, but meh.
Also I mean the idea that Sonic grows ridiculously stronger over time is supported in Forces especially. So the idea of him jumping tiers at least to Low 2-C like that really isn't out of the table, especially with fighting the mechs labeled stronger than Tier 2 Eggman stuff, and fighting Super Sonic tiered enemies in his base form, or enemies powered by a significant portion of Chaos Emeralds.
 
Theuser789 said:
You guys really need to chill with all your Sonic upgrades...
Click to expand...
Uh... Okay? Not sure what to make of this
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
The Phantom Ruby was regarded as superior to the Master Emerald, so there is that technically. Not saying I agree with 2-B/2-A Base Sonic, but meh.
Also I mean the idea that Sonic grows ridiculously stronger over time is supported in Forces especially. So the idea of him jumping tiers at least to Low 2-C like that really isn't out of the table, especially with fighting the mechs labeled stronger than Tier 2 Eggman stuff, and fighting Super Sonic tiered enemies in his base form, or enemies powered by a significant portion of Chaos Emeralds.
Click to expand...
Afaik Infinite uses a finalized prototype of the Phantom Ruby, not the true thing, so I don't think this statement would hold much weight

The Low 2-C stuff though... Yeah I think overall it works
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
The Phantom Ruby was regarded as superior to the Master Emerald, so there is that technically. Not saying I agree with 2-B/2-A Base Sonic, but meh.
Also I mean the idea that Sonic grows ridiculously stronger over time is supported in Forces especially. So the idea of him jumping tiers at least to Low 2-C like that really isn't out of the table, especially with fighting the mechs labeled stronger than Tier 2 Eggman stuff, and fighting Super Sonic tiered enemies in his base form, or enemies powered by a significant portion of Chaos Emeralds.
Click to expand...
It wasn't regarded as superior. Though I do know of the scan you're talking about. He said why bother with the Master Emerald after testing its ability to create illusions. His statement does imply that he felt the ME wouldn't be necessary for world domination though.
 
Theuser789 said:
You guys really need to chill with all your Sonic upgrades...
Click to expand...
NEVER
bd1.png
 
Yeahhh, I'm inclined to disagree with 2-B/A Infinite FRA. If we take the statement at face value, we'd essentially be having Base Sonic surpass the power of the Chaos Emeralds twice in the same game (as the Death Egg Robot was stated to have surpassed Infinite with an overclocked Ruby).

As others have said before though, there are more concrete ways to get Tier 2 Base Sonic even if I personally disagree that wouldn't need to rely on a... let's say finnicky statement.
 
I assumed Clover wanted to continue discussions cuz of le bump, I suppose that depends on if he's satisfied with that and has nothing left to add.
 
I’m still wondering what are people’s thoughts on Low 2-C, especially staff opinions
 
ShakeResounding said:
Yeahhh, I'm inclined to disagree with 2-B/A Infinite FRA. If we take the statement at face value, we'd essentially be having Base Sonic surpass the power of the Chaos Emeralds twice in the same game (as the Death Egg Robot was stated to have surpassed Infinite with an overclocked Ruby).

As others have said before though, there are more concrete ways to get Tier 2 Base Sonic even if I personally disagree that wouldn't need to rely on a... let's say finnicky statement.
Click to expand...
The current proposal is not using that anymore tho
 
The premise changed to scaling Infinite above the machines Eggman constructed fully on his own, like Super Egg Robot.

Which like, yeah, there’s decent evidence for base Sonic at this point scaling to low end super forms.
 
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