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No, it’s the Advance final boss.
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Sonic Forces: Infinite AP Revision (Cue Infinite's Theme)
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
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Ohhh, that thing. I'll look into that one. I do plan to apply more strict scaling rules to Super at some point.
I suppose. But it's a lot more work for the Sonic fans to have to completely change the scaling, only for it to need to be undone afterwards.
Though that didn't address my argument that ultimate doesn't automatically =/= strongest.
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That's not a good argument. Legit, what would it mean? If you're suggesting it doesn't mean strongest, it's also on you to suggest what it could mean. And at this point, going against something for the sake of "well it could be this" isn't exactly a strong argument by any stretch
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I explained earlier. Eggman picked up the Phantom Ruby to begin with because he was in awe of its reality warping power. Not its raw energy.
However, I agree neither could be asserted without evidence supporting it meaning one thing or the other. So I will show you what I'm referring to.
Here's Eggman discovering the Ruby and noting its power to induce hallucinations to be useful and worth looking into.
Here's a statement from Encyclospeedia about Eggman discovering its reality warping power and trying to replicate it, which he then implemented into Infinite.
So yes, to say it was his Ultimate creation for what he specifically took it in to research and replicate is well founded. That being its mind-hax reality warping powers.
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Still, he refers to it as a weapon, which implies its power is greater than what he's done before. What good are illusions if Sonic just beats the shit out of all of them easy peasy?
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That doesn't change anything. A weapon isn't lethal based solely on its raw power. To act as if a mind hax, reality warping, pocket universe creating weapon is useless without it being ALSO way stronger than anything in the series before is disingenuous.
Nor does Sonic beat them easy peasy from the get go. He gets overwhelmed. It's like the first thing that occurs in the game.
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You're creating some convoluted reasoning that requires more assumptions than the simple explanation that it's simply stronger.
Also, it's not the Phantom Ruby that Dr. Eggman is referring to in particular. He's referring to Infinite amplified by it, as shown by the focus on Infinite as he's saying this
Also, it's not the Phantom Ruby that Dr. Eggman is referring to in particular. He's referring to Infinite amplified by it, as shown by the focus on Infinite as he's saying this
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Nothing is convoluted about it. Eggman specifically took in the Phantom Ruby to research its ability to induce hallucinations as he found it impressive. The Encyclopeedia backs up the prequel comic, saying it allows him to instantly conjure an army, which he immediately tried to replicate.
This is simply an issue of your incredulity. It is entirely simple to interpret the statement as not referring to raw strength. Infinite is deemed his ultimate weapon, because he can USE the prototype which can conjure armies. You're the one making the assumption that it has to means that he's >>> all Eggman's previous creations without any evidence to support it.
Having a reality warping, mind hax, universe sealing creating jewel is certainly enough for it to be deemed an "ultimate weapon" when utilized by someone. To act as if raw strength is what's required for something to be deemed an ultimate weapon is asinine. There are several factors that play into something being an effective weapon.
Having a weapon > Base Sonic that can create entire armies in an instant and induce other with a false reality would certainly be enough for it to be an ultimate weapon.
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It really is in no part any incredulity from my end. Again, if it really had nothing to do with its power, the illusions would mean jack shit. What good is a 1,000 man army when they're all completely fodder? Evidently, it needs to have the actual raw power to back it up, which is what you're not understanding. In addition...
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
weap·on
noun
- a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
How are you gonna cause bodily harm with illusions that aren't strong at all? Any way you slice it, it's flat-out wrong to say that it doesn't need raw strength. When most people think of a weapon, they think of something with actual destructive power, and that's not for no reason.
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If Infinite was purely a beatstick like Egg Dragoon then scaling it above other inventions’ AP would be fine, but him having actually decent hax with a wide AOE makes him compensate for lack of AP.
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You're misinterpreting my point. I'm not saying the PR is fodder compared to Sonic. I explicitly noted in my last comment, that as far as beginning of Forces goes, PR > Sonic.
But the strength isn't what makes it the Ultimate Weapon. You're assuming raw strength HAS to be what makes it the Ultimate Weapon.
Having actually good hax that can mind-**** people and seal them into other dimensions alone is already enough for it to be an incredible weapon.
When did I say the illusions aren't strong? I said that it being strong isn't what makes it the Ultimate Weapon. It having actually pretty good hax that can cause, physical, mental, and bodily harm is more than enough for it to be deemed as one.
And I disagree. When people think of weapons, they may think of nukes, or guns, but others think of gas warfare. Something that doesn't have a lot of raw power, but kills people by poisoning people. Or napalm, which lights people and large areas on fire.
If you honestly think something that lets Eggman summon an entire army of people comparable in power to the original in an instant isn't useful, not sure what to think.
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If it's as indeterminate as this, would you be fine with a "possibly Low 2-C" rating?
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Uhhh, I guess? I'd rather that than assuming flat out it has to refer to strength and strength alone when Infinite has access to relatively good hax as far as Sonic goes. I don't think you'll have as much luck with others though. Most of the Sonic fans don't believe in Tier 2 Base Sonic cast like I do.
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I'll see what others think. Though to begin with, I'm now not really in a rush to get this CRT done after learning that there have been plans going on in the background for who knows how long
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If you are interested, I could DM you a doc I've made for some of the changes I planned. I was gonna add Tier 2 Base Sonic to it soon.
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Oh DM me too, I was actually compiling some tier 2 stuff.
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Sure, I haven't written anything regarding Tier 2 in it yet tho. Just make a promise that you won't show anyone. Your eyes only.
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Interesting.
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You have my word.
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Hmu, this could be my gateway to Sonic scaling
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Ah, a fellow newcomer to Sonic scaling.
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Would I be able to look at it?
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Sure, you've been around long enough for me to trust ya. Like I said for the others. Your eyes only. Don't go around showing people this. Wanna keep it relatively lowkey
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My lips are sealed.
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Statement from Morio Kishimoto, the director of the game. Skip to the 5th paragraph.
I have have some other scans about Titans’ strength
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Interesting, very interesting indeed...
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Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with ShadowWarrior and TheUser789 on this.
The ad is really just promotional material to hype the story of the game and not really meant to be taken seriously. Plus it is basically contradicted by what actually happens in the game. Solaris was a massive threat to Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver; and the latter two basically needed Super Sonic's help to defeated. Egg Wizard also clearly needed Super forms in order to even stand a chance where as Sonic was able to solo Infinite in base form. And Base Sonic being assumed stronger than Super Shadow or Super Silver would be contradictory. While Sonic does get stronger via progression, one thing that's always remained consistent is that Super Sonic at his weakest is still considerably stronger than Base Sonic at his strongest. At least as far as I remember.
Also, "Greatest challenge" or "Strongest Threat" could be referring to a different context. Infinite could perhaps "Feel" more challenging due to the fact that he is fighting someone without Chaos Emeralds which was something he had against Solaris. At best, it could just mean that fighting Infinite without Chaos Emeralds is a tougher fight than facing Solaris with Chaos Emeralds. Like imagine Character A fought Character B, and later fought Character C which considered Character C the tougher fight. But the actual reason is more so because they had a super form against Character B while when fighting Character C, they lost access to that and had to resort to more desperate struggles.
But either way, other Sonic supporters have also elaborated other reasons. And if Infinite was truly stronger than Solaris, it would be an outlier for base Sonic for those other aforementioned reasons.
The ad is really just promotional material to hype the story of the game and not really meant to be taken seriously. Plus it is basically contradicted by what actually happens in the game. Solaris was a massive threat to Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver; and the latter two basically needed Super Sonic's help to defeated. Egg Wizard also clearly needed Super forms in order to even stand a chance where as Sonic was able to solo Infinite in base form. And Base Sonic being assumed stronger than Super Shadow or Super Silver would be contradictory. While Sonic does get stronger via progression, one thing that's always remained consistent is that Super Sonic at his weakest is still considerably stronger than Base Sonic at his strongest. At least as far as I remember.
Also, "Greatest challenge" or "Strongest Threat" could be referring to a different context. Infinite could perhaps "Feel" more challenging due to the fact that he is fighting someone without Chaos Emeralds which was something he had against Solaris. At best, it could just mean that fighting Infinite without Chaos Emeralds is a tougher fight than facing Solaris with Chaos Emeralds. Like imagine Character A fought Character B, and later fought Character C which considered Character C the tougher fight. But the actual reason is more so because they had a super form against Character B while when fighting Character C, they lost access to that and had to resort to more desperate struggles.
But either way, other Sonic supporters have also elaborated other reasons. And if Infinite was truly stronger than Solaris, it would be an outlier for base Sonic for those other aforementioned reasons.
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Also nuetral. Eventally plan on getting into sonic scaling
ZespeonGalaxy
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Disagree with Infinite scaling to 2-B n 2-A. If Infinite scaled to Super Sonic I would see 2-B to 2-A being legit.
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I'mma be completely honest and say that aside from things already said by someone else, what's being said here is either:
- Entirely unconfirmed with no backing
- A classic instance of "coulda, woulda, shoulda" with nothing concrete
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Sonic at his strongest in base always being drastically inferior to weakest Super Sonic is very clearly not true, we have two occasions where a Super Sonic tier opponent has been fought and defeated by base Sonic.
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@DarkDragonMedeus Regardless, what do you think of this?
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