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i just hope we dont need to make a physiology page for them...
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i just hope we dont need to make a physiology page for them...
Agreed mainly with the removal of High-Godly, granting a physical vessel is Avatar creation, maybe ressurection with enough context, but all cases here are not regeneration, however, I am still not sure about the AP caseGood Morning/Afternoon/Night, guys.
First of all, I want to thank the people that is included on the page, because I used some of their argument in the page, and that people will be @Saikou_The_Lewd_King, @Hecatia_Gaming, and @Shmooply I hope you don't hold any grudge against me.
So many have you may (or not) have noticed that the Touhou Project's Explanation Page by Saikou is very old, like super old, it's at least 4 years old or something.
So I thought to myself why not create a page, a new one for Touhou Project (and link it to the main page), that's revolved around the ratings of the characters, talking about why and how a certain character gain their ability or their rating. And that's exactly what I did.
Keine's Touhou School
vsbattles.fandom.com
Yes it doesn't explain every single character, because there are a lot of them, I mean it's possible but it will take a lot of time. So I focused it around important characters on the series first, such as Reimu and Yukari, then slowly add more characters to the blog.
Now there are some upgrade here and there on the blog, so please read it carefully, specially the Youkai section and the Mechanism of Fortune section. I also included TL;DR for almost every section so that it will be easier for you guys to read. And yes, the blog will be updated as more info is discovered on the series.
Take your time to check the page and please put your input. Thanks in advance.
Now it's time for some "Downgrades"
Downgrade
So, I noticed something quite intriguing on some of the profiles.
This, is something that I do not quite agree with, yes I missed this part on the CRT, I was super busy and can't read carefully. So this, is in my opinion isn't HGR at all, this is Immortality Type 9, the Primordial Form is the true form that created the Physical Form, there's pretty much no High Godly Regeneration here at all, and using Myth to regenerate is totally isn't Type 3 Immortality nor High Godly Regeneration, High Godly Regeneration isn't something to be taken light of.
I noticed this is placed on the Physical World Key, Which is something that they don't have, to my knowledge. The one that's responsible for the creation of the three layered worlds are the Primordials, not the Physical Forms, so remove these ability to the Primordial Forms
This can be removed, since creating the Physical World is more to Spatial Manipulation rather than Matter Manipulation.
The Primordials AP rating should be changed from a L2-C to H3-A possibly L2-C, yes they created the world, and space=time in Touhou, but even if that's the case, characters that have performed that feats is still rated H3-A possibly L2-C, such as Miko who created the infinite sized Senkai, she's still rated H3-A possibly L2-C for consistency, and that's exactly why the Primordials AP should be changed, for consistency.
TL;DR
Thanks.
- Immortality Type 3 and High Godly Regeneration is going away
- Move Physics Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Magic, Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation & Probability Manipulation to their Primordial Keys
- Remove Matter Manipulation
- Change the Primordials AP from L2-C to H3-A possibly L2-C
Isn't that what the page is abouti just hope we dont need to make a physiology page for them...
Alright then, I guess it's fine to turn it into a page.Yes, anybody can update it afterwards when necessary, if we unlock it due to a revision for example. That is what makes it more convenient.
Ok.Well, I think it could work removing the type 3 immo and change it to type 4, same with removing the matter manip.
Again, it's to make the verse way more consistent and harder to debunk.However, I still disagree with making them from Low 2C to High 3A, possibly Low 2C. I already explained why before.
Usernames should not be mentioned in regular explanation pages.Btw guys, is it alright to remove y'all names from the page if it got accepted? Or should it stay as a blog?
Alright then.Usernames should not be mentioned in regular explanation pages.
Beyond concepts grants you High Godly?I'm fine with High-Godly regen staying, any damage they'd recover from would inherently have to be High-Godly, since they're Beyond Conception as is.
The rest of the OP I think is fine, unless there's been a contention I've not yet seen.
Well High-Godly say this:Beyond concepts grants you High Godly?
Yes I understand. But beyond concepts grants one HGR? Or am I misinterpreting something here?Well High-Godly say this:
The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying concept(s) or information needed for them to exist.
So If it regenerates after the erasure of the concept then yes
No I don't think so, that sounds more like trascendence or any other hability.Yes I understand. But beyond concepts grants one HGR? Or am I misinterpreting something here?
Yes, I'm wondering why Udlmaster said they have HGR via transcending concepts, am I misunderstanding something?No I don't think so, that sounds more like trascendence or any other hability.
Yeah same question anyway it won't give High-Godly.Yes, I'm wondering why Udlmaster said they have HGR via transcending concepts, am I misunderstanding something?
Ant, is there any changes that has to be made to the blog so it can be a wiki page?Usernames should not be mentioned in regular explanation pages.
Uld, the regen is not for the primordial forms it is for the avatars, and what uld meant by this is that any damage the true forms take would necessitate HGR as due to them being beyond conception all damage they would take on that scale would be beyond concepts as well and as such would need HGR to come back from itI'm fine with High-Godly regen staying, any damage they'd recover from would inherently have to be High-Godly, since they're Beyond Conception as is.
The rest of the OP I think is fine, unless there's been a contention I've not yet seen.
Yeah, I imagined it would extend to their Avatars too, I'd find it to be extremely weird if the True Form had an ability like this that they couldn't provide to their Avatar, as far as I am aware, the Avatar is only a weaker filtered aspect of the actual True Form, it's not something different or distinct from themselves.Uld, the regen is not for the primordial forms it is for the avatars
True that.it seems to be the latter in this case, which is why I keep saying it should be res rather than regen
People can figure it out, and it's not like there's crazy scaling chain on the series.Unrelated to the revision but should we creating a blog containing the scaling chains of it's series?
I mean, there are realms that are stated to be larger than baseline L2-C. But it's not Dragon Ball type of crap to my knowledge.@OnsokunoSonic Really? I thought Touhou has that crazy scaling chains for the Low 2-C
Quoting this:I mean, there are realms that are stated to be larger than baseline L2-C. But it's not Dragon Ball type of crap to my knowledge.
Basically what i get about Touhou Low 2-C scaling chainsUhh according to Yukari’s profile she’s stronger than Suika. And according to this guy‘s post on the highest AP thread, Suika is like far stronger than characters that fodderized the combined powers of entire pantheons of characters above baseline Low 2-C. So yeah not exactly sure if Zero’s has enough AP to match that.
Although thinking about it now the current Touhou scaling looks pretty freaking horrible. Since according to the profiles Suiki = Suika but according to the scaling chain Lord_JJJ posted Suika >>>>> Suiki.
Oh yeah I forgot about the Moon Dudes. If anyone wanna make a blog about that then it's fine.Quoting this:
Basically what i get about Touhou Low 2-C scaling chains
That scaling chain has some pretty big holes tbh. First of all, I can't find a single statement that suggests Doremy is above everyone in Gensokyo (ZUN's statement about her in this interview would make that pretty unlikely anyways) or that Seiga is above baseline hermit AP. And some of the statements of superiority are based on hax, not AP, such as Reimu being superior to Marisa because Marisa has virtually no hax and can't do shit against fantasy nature. Kasen stomping Reimu is ignoring the context of Reimu being starving and exhausted in that scene, Kasen being superior to herself is really ******* stupid, Kasen being weaker than Suika is dumb because they're both part of the Big Four of the Mountain, Sagume basically is a moon god so saying she's weaker than them is really weird, and the only interaction Suiki had with Seiga was trapping her in a ball of water, which is not indicative of how they scale to each other (Seiga would've had to fight off other kishin anyways so saying she's way weaker than them makes no god damn sense).Quoting this:
Basically what i get about Touhou Low 2-C scaling chains
Doesn't matter how many bazillions of times bigger than the universe this guy is when nearly every notable feat in the series involves creating or destroying infinitely sized dimensions.Well we do know some crazy scaling from this deity that things start
Amitabha (Touhou Project)
Amitabha is a Buddhist God from the Touhou Project game series. Although he/she didn't make an appearance yet, it was mentioned by Maribel and described as extremely large and tall, meaning the Paradise must be even larger, compared to the relatively small size of Hell. Tier: High 3-A, possibly...vsbattles.fandom.com
I see, that mean we need to remaking the scaling chains?That scaling chain has some pretty big holes tbh. First of all, I can't find a single statement that suggests Doremy is above everyone in Gensokyo (ZUN's statement about her in this interview would make that pretty unlikely anyways) or that Seiga is above baseline hermit AP. And some of the statements of superiority are based on hax, not AP, such as Reimu being superior to Marisa because Marisa has virtually no hax and can't do shit against fantasy nature. Kasen stomping Reimu is ignoring the context of Reimu being starving and exhausted in that scene, Kasen being superior to herself is really ******* stupid, Kasen being weaker than Suika is dumb because they're both part of the Big Four of the Mountain, Sagume basically is a moon god so saying she's weaker than them is really weird, and the only interaction Suiki had with Seiga was trapping her in a ball of water, which is not indicative of how they scale to each other (Seiga would've had to fight off other kishin anyways so saying she's way weaker than them makes no god damn sense).
Also there's no way to actually quantify how big those power gaps are so it's kinda pointless.
Doesn't matter how many bazillions of times bigger than the universe this guy is when nearly every notable feat in the series involves creating or destroying infinitely sized dimensions.
I really don't think scaling chains are even possible for Touhou, at least not on a large scale. That's not to say scaling is impossible in Touhou, it's just that the bigger a scaling chain gets the more likely it'll be inconsistent or downright wrong.I see, that mean we need to remaking the scaling chains?
So if I am correct you are saying there will be only 2 tiers in Touhou Project: (a) whatever "creating or destroying infinitely sized dimensions" is (any more notable ones may I ask), and (b) Cirno tierI really don't think scaling chains are even possible for Touhou, at least not on a large scale. That's not to say scaling is impossible in Touhou, it's just that the bigger a scaling chain gets the more likely it'll be inconsistent or downright wrong.
Well, there's Suika's black hole feat and Utsuho creating suns, but outside of that there isn't much. And 'Cirno tier' is pretty vague since outside of the fairies everyone who isn't tier 3/2 is scaled to a wall level feat with a vague 'likely higher' attached. I'm also looking at some various low tier feats so where exactly 'Cirno tier' lies is subject to change.So if I am correct there will be only 2 tiers in Touhou Project: (a) whatever "creating or destroying infinitely sized dimensions" is (any more notable ones may I ask), and (b) Cirno tier