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Some updates on One Punch-Man

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Matthew_Schroeder said:
Webcomic Garou would be like High 6-A max in his final form since CSRC exists there.

But when I say ultimate form I mean his giant monster form where he's practically mindless.
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Yeah, but I’m pretty sure the statement of him and Boros being comparable was in reference to their physicals (since he mentioned Garou having an edge in CQC) and not Boros’ ultimate move that takes all of his energy.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
The ship's durability isn't High 6-A. The ship is made of some unknown alien metal that is better than any metal on Earth as per Metal Knight's awed reaction to the ship's materials, it seem.

But it's still ******* metal. A machine or vehicle's durability works differently from that of a character. To damage a ship you just need to overcome the innate resistance of its outer metal walls and that is clearly not very difficult. Tatsumaki and Tanktop Master throwing rubble did minor damage to the ship's hull. Tatsumaki redirecting the bullets did severe damage the hull, Boros and Saitama were jumping through the hull in their fight. etc etc.

Saitama jumping from the Moon to Earth did severe damage to the hull but only in a small part. It was the speed of his impact that dislodged the ship in the air but like, it didn't split it in half or anything.

If someone like, threw a giant energy beam at the ship and it survived unscathed then you could talk about it having high durability.
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Tank top Master did absolutely nothing on the Ship, Tatsumaki yes, but remembering that it is a High 6-A and this is not undone for the Ship, it is even done, since Tatsumaki only managed to damage the ship superficially, it did not affect anything , unlike Boros' attacks.

But about the leap thing, yes, that should be revised.
 
My only problems are Boros' physicals and the ship. The ship can be corrected here easily and if you guys want a thread for Boros' physicals it can be made after this.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
In this case literally does.

Boros's Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon is his final, desperate move that he does in a form stronger than his regular Released Mode. But let's go it step by step:

Boros' Meteoric Burst unleashes a quick explosion of his inner energy reserves that go beyond the limits of his body, quickly exhausting him and shortening his lifespan. A single punch from Meteoric Burst Boros is far more energetic than his charged Chest Beam Cannon he does in Released Form so scaling Meteoric Burst to Released is already bullshit.

Further, Boros' Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon is unleashed by him gathering all of the energy within his body and releasing it ALL AT ONCE. He isn't going Meteoric Burst for a few seconds and unleashing two quick attacks (Reminder that in the Manga, Meteoric Burst Boros hit Saitama with a single punch and a single kick and that left him panting in exhaustion). The energy required for the CSRC is far greater than the energy released when Boros goes Meteoric Burst. Boros can go Meteoric Burst multiple times if he doesn't exhaust himself. He can use Meteoric Burst in one fight and be able to use it again in another. All it takes is that he doesn't overlast it.

Finally Boros talks about how Saitama is actually requiring him to give it all he's got and this is AFTER he's already exhausted in Meteoric Burst and having ranted about how it shorten his lifespan and he can only use it as a quick trump card. Boros was willing to die to defeat Saitama at the end, which is why he used the Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon at all. Boros didn't intend to survive the destruction of the Earth, he didn't care if he died, he just wanted to have the Exciting Fight(tm) that he was promised in the prophecy 20 years ago.

Boros' attacks cannot scale to the CSRC. It literally goes against literally everything established about the character and his powerset.
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I don't know if it will effect your opinion on Boros being High 6-A, but the most recent calc for CSRC has a low end of 1.5 exatons and a high end of 13 exatons, meaning that the low end is 34X stronger, and the high end is 295X stronger than the most recent calc for the Moon Jump (44 petatons). Therefore, if both are evaluated and found to be acceptable, CSRC would be at least 34 times stronger than Meteoric Burst.

If we're going to seriously consider downgrading Boros, we should at least take a look at these calcs and see if they will affect our judgments.
 
I think we can scale to the attack of the ship, which is Low 6-B and Tatsumaki can stop it casually and fire at it, but even so it doesn't cause as much damage as Released Boros' attacks and energy attacks.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
My only problems are Boros' physicals and the ship. The ship can be corrected here easily and if you guys want a thread for Boros' physicals it can be made after this.
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Ah, ninja'd. I didn't see this comment and I was going to ask you what you thought about the other changes. Should I interpret this as you supporting all (non-Boros) changes?

I think we should start listing who has supported what changes.

@Damage3245
I would like to know your thoughts on the non-Boros changes (we should probably make a separate CRT for that at this point). Are you mostly in favor of the changes, do you have any reservations, amendments?
 
I think that the justifications like this:

Attack Potency: Large Building level+ (Should be comparable to other physical fighters in the A-Class)
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Should be yeeted out of the profiles.

This is like saying "All S-Class heroes should be comparable in speed." or "All S-Class heroes should be equally durable."

It's baseless.

If you're going to scale random heroes to an unrelated fighter like Dave, then I think we need to bring the "Likely" qualifier for those statistics on the basis of:

Likely: Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly.
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Damage3245 said:
I think that the justifications like this:



Should be yeeted out of the profiles.

This is like saying "All S-Class heroes should be comparable in speed." or "All S-Class heroes should be equally durable."

It's baseless.

If you're going to scale random heroes to an unrelated fighter like Dave, then I think we need to bring the "Likely" qualifier for those statistics on the basis of:
Click to expand...
So, should we rate A-class heroes generically as "at least 9-A (strong enough to defeat tiger level threats), likely 8-C (should be stronger than Dave, who performed far worse in the superfight tournament than Snakebite Snek, the lowest ranked A-class hero)?
 
You can see debris and things destroyed beyond the cloud that I dimensioned and as we know, 99% of the city was destroyed.
 
@USklaverei Could you change the downgrade for the A-class heroes to be "at least 9-A, likely 8-C" as I have described above? The staff members here seem to support that more specific tiering and it makes sense to me.
 
Attack Potency: At least Large Island level (It must be equal to its durability that survived a casual punch from Saitama, while a casual punch destroyed Orochi), possibly much higher (Stated by Geryuganshoop to be able to wipe out all life on Earth in 10 days) | At least Small Country level (His attacks were causing serious damage to his ship, which he endured could withstand a barrage of Tatsumaki attacks without major damage) | At least Multi Continent level (Much stronger than before. A single punch from this form caused as much damage as a charged attack from his previous form), higher with Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (He stated that his attack would destroy the surface of an entire planet, making Saitama use Serious Punch to cancel it out, the databook also stated that his attack was able to shave and ruin the Earth)
 
USklaverei said:
In all its forms his attack is comparable to his defense, I don't see why it would be different here, since by the way, he climbs to Geryuganshoop's 6-C as well.
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You've got it backwards. In his other forms it is his defense that is comparable to his Striking Strength/AP.

His AP doesn't scale from his durability in his other forms.
 
Alright, if we're going to downgrade Boros, I would do it like this:

"Armored/At least 6-C (superior to Geryuganshoop and the other generals), "Released/At least low 6-B (able to damage his ship as much as or more than Tatsumaki's barrage with his chest blast), Meteoric Burst "High 6-A (able to damage his ship in a manner comparable to the 44 petaton moon jump)".
 
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But again, I would prefer not to do this as we have two Boros-related calcs that have yet to be evaluated. I would suggest leaving all the Boros stuff for his own CRT, except for upgrading his armored and released forms to relativistic speed scaling off Geryuganshoop.

Discussing this now will be inconclusive if we want to use the most up-to-date calcs, and if we come to a consensus without them, our determinations may be invalidated within a few weeks.

We still have to discuss Genos (and most high demons that scale from him), Drive Knight, DO-S and Fubuki, lifting strength, large size, etc, etc.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Isn't Tatsumaki's barrage 7-B now?
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The destruction caused by the first barrage from Boros's ship was calculated to be low 6-B here yesterday, via finding the size of A City and determining that 99.8% was destroyed. Assuming Tatsumaki is hitting the ship with as much force as the initial barrage, it, should be low 6-B as well.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'll correct myself. His durability isn't scaled from his AP going by the current justifications, but his AP isn't scaled from his durability either.
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Damage, I see you have reservations about the Boros changes, upgrading Orochi and others to relavistic based on Geryuganshoop's movement speed, and just downgrading the A-class heroes to 8-C.

@Matthew_Schroeder, I see you have reservations about the Boros changes, universally downgrading the A-class heroes to 8-C.

What are both your thoughts on A) upgrading Genos to low 7-B and the corresponding changes to the high demons, B) upgrading Drive Knight to baseline 7-B, C) upgrading DO-S and Fubuki, D) downgrading Suiryu and Choze, E) the large size upgrades, F) the lifting strength upgrades, G) the changes to Homeless Emperor, H) the physical speed upgrade to Geryuganshoop (not necessarily upgrading others along side him), I) the upgrade to Boros's ship?

I would like to implement some of these changes if you approve of any of them.
 
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Let me clarify about what I think the Genos changes mean again. So, all high-demon characters that do not have superior feats of their own (eg Hundred Eyes Octopus, formerly Choze/Suiryu) are currently "High 7-C" or "at least High 7-C" according to a very long and tenuous scaling chain from Genos. Before we calculated Post-Superfight Genos's AP, all those characters existed in a huge, ambiguous vacuum between 113 kilotons and 3.3+ megatons (baseline dragon level), hence all the "at least High 7-C" ratings.

Post-Superfight Genos is 1220 kilotons (low 7-B) and higher into Low 7-B with Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon, which I assume must be at least twice as strong as his regular Spiral Incineration Cannon which has been accepted as 681 kilotons. The low 7-B attack does not directly affect scaling for anyone, but we know that Genos was using the 681 kiloton attack to shoot down an injured Garou and Phoenix Man. I assume that Hero Hunter Garou's durability would roughly scale to this attack (presumably downscaling somewhat), since Genos knows how strong Garou is and what he can take at this point.

Therefore, Hero Hunter Garou should <= 681 kilotons, especially when we consider that he was wounded at this point and not in a position to use WSRSF. Scaling from Garou, TTM should =~ 681 kilotons, since he was able to damage Garou and would have likely defeated him without WSRSF. Therefore, depending on how much credit you want to give Garou's WSRSF, Garou and TTM should be just "High 7-C" around 681 kilotons.

Face Ripper and Awakened Cockroach should also be somewhat inferior to 681 kilotons, since they lost to attacks from G-4 Genos. They should be just High 7-C as well.

Base Metal Bat should remain at "at least High 7-C", since he far outperformed post G-4 Genos in the Carnage Kabuto simulation and may be comparable to post-superfight Genos. Senior Centipede should be >= to the 681 kilotons result, since Murata stated it would take Genos's spiral incineration attacks (the upgrades he received after losing to Gouketsu) to damage Senior Centipede's carapace. Senior Centipede should therefore be, "at least High 7-C (681+), possibly low 7-B", since it is unclear what "damaging" means.

Royal Ripper, G-5 and base Bug God should stay at "at least High 7-C", since they all scale to or above early red Garou who should >= 681 kilotons. Bug God's transformed key should just be "Low 7-B" because Transformed Bug God > Base Bug God > Early Red Garou >= 681 kilotons.

Suiryu and Choze should be downgraded "High 7-C", because 1.) Suiryu broke Bakuzan's toe while weakened, 2.) Genos evaluated Suiryu to be s-class level (he had only seen High 7-C S-class fighters and Tatsumaki at that point), 3.) Suiryu fought evenly with Garou in a season two OVA that ONE and Murata oversaw

I should also note that G-5 got one-shot by Post-Elder Centipede Genos, who will be "at least low 7-B, likely higher". Post-Elder Centipede Genos may also be upgraded to 7-B if he damages Psykos in the next few chapters. IDK if that means he should be just High 7-C because you need a 7.5X AP difference to one shot, but I can be persuaded either way.
 
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