Some Tier Upgrades

[imZer0Null]

Can somebody explain the conclusions here so far please?

Here's a somewhat summary:

1. The spell <Gilieriam Naviem> could likely be rated as "4-A, up to Low 2-C, likely 2-B".
The "likely 2-B" upgrade is due to being able to increase an attack's power enough to harm Eques.
Eques was able to partially withstand a "Low 2-C, up to 2-B" attack. He was damaged by the attack, and there is no solid evidence that all of the attacks he partially withstood had 2-B AP, therefore Eques' durability is rated is "Low 2-C, likely 2-B".

2. The Bubbles (worlds) in the Silver Sea could possibly be rated as "2-C".
This is due to all bubbles likely containing a Land of Traces and Future World Crystal.
The Land of Traces contains "sections of the timeline". The Militia World's Land of Traces currently contains 700 million years worth of traces, and can overall contain 70 billion years worth of traces. In short, to destroy the Land of Traces of the Militia World, the attack must be able to destroy more than 70 billion years of a timeline.
The Future World Crystal is the possible futures of the world. To destroy it, you must destroy all possible futures. In other words, you must be able to destroy the "possible future timelines of the world".

3. Misha and Sasha can create and destroy a bubble, respectively. Therefore, they should likely scale to creating/destroying a bubble, which is currently rated Low 2-C, and could possibly be upgraded to 2-C for reasons above.

4. Most characters currently rated Low 2-C should possibly be rated as 2-C, due to the proposed upgrade above.

5. Anos' power increases as he approaches destruction. This power increase has allowed him to withstand an attack rated "Low 2-C 2-C, up to 2-B".
Therefore, he should possibly get a "Up to Low 2-C 2-C, likely 2-B when approaching destruction" rating for all his suppressed keys.

His True Power key's rating does not need to be changed.

The above summary is not great, and there are some semi-important debates before the provided summary, but it's at least something.
Scans are provided in the OP and some also in the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @QuasiYuri

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-tier-upgrades.123092/post-4078458

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Provide the evidence that those Egil Grone Angdroa's had 2-B AP, otherwise this entire argument is invalid.

"Egil Grone Angdroa" heavily reasonate in core of my body. On top of that, amount of consumed magic power was more than usual. --WN chap: 497

That Egil Grone Angdroa was an amplified version of a normal <Egil Grone Angdroa> .
<Rayon> is a spell that increases the raw stregth of a magic spell and also the order of an magic. Anos's <Egil Grone Angdroa> that has actually a 2B rating accepted by the wiki is just low 2C upto 2B and is imperfect.(Anos claims his earlier techniques to be imperfect after seeing Ron Cruz's dream passed onto him via Ron's source).WN chap: 527

All the magic he cast turns into ashes, and the seven-fold spiral flame hits his hand. "
-Grasp magic hand <Rayon>" I watched the evil eye.
The right hand of the guy was dyed in dusk.
It was grasping the Extreme prison world extinction ash smoldering demon gun <Egil Grone Angdroa>. The magic of destruction that turns even the world into ashes when touched. He was holding all of the fire at the end in his own palm. "Strong, magic is deep." Quietly, he pulled his arm and, perhaps, threw back <Egil Grone Angdroa>. The seven-fold spiral runs fast. Like the previous Magic Black Thunder Emperor <Jirasudo>, it was a few steps faster and had more powerful destructive power, but the fire at the end hit my body directly. And the sea of trees burned black. It turns black, black, and ash-- "
... Kuha. The sea is wide. I'm surprised that there is a man who throws back <Egil Grone Angdroa>

The magic grasped by Grasp Magic Hand <Rayon> is more powerful than when it is released. If you are familiar with the characteristics, it is a natural action to keep a distance. "Oh, this time it's your turn. If you miss it--" Swinging his arms wide and adding magical power, he threw back the Extreme prison world extinction ash smoldering demon gun <Egil Grone Angdroa>.

Overlord Flame Magic Heavy Gun <Dogda Azbedara>" A magic circle was drawn and blue stars were fired in rapid succession. "--effect?" Drawing the same technique, I fired <Dogda Azbedara>, a heavy gun with a flame demon. The blue stars collided with each other and the aftermath offset each other, causing the flame to explode in a swirling manner. At the moment when the undulating blue flame covered my view, Extreme prison world extinction ash smoldering demon gun <Egil Grone Angdroa> flew like slashing the explosion.
"Use classic hands"
With the hands of Grasp Magic Hand <Rayon> dyed in the dusk, grab the fireball of destruction. The black particles of the seven-fold spiral were raging, and they stripped their fangs just as they destroyed everything in the world. Leave it to the power and magic, and forcibly suppress it. Naturally, a smile spilled from my mouth.

From WN chap: 498(Anos claiming that Ron Cruz is much stronger than Eques whom you guys claim to be likely 2B)

It's a saying that there is no reason not to know.
　That man with a sword also called Eques the main god and me the head of state.

"Unfortunately there is no main god in my world. It may have been born, but I destroyed it. Now it's a fine watermill."
"... Destroyed ... No way, just kidding ...! ?? 』\
　Ron Cruz screams with half-belief.

"It's a fact"

"... Destroy the Lord God and put it in a watermill ... That kind of thing ...? 』\

"It's more puzzling that a man like you is surprised. Ron Cruz, you're obviously stronger than him."
　If the magical power hadn't run out, the battle would still be ongoing.

 

[TMC_667]

In any case. I think the 5-A part of Anos' Pre-Silver Sea key should be bumped to 2-B (or Low 2-C/2-C, likely 2-B for those who are extremely skeptical for some reasons). Anos clearly demonstrated feats far better than moving the moon during the fight with Eques (and also the fact that his source can tank EGAs and Graham's source which is stronger than EGA). I don't see a reason to include spells in the key because he is on par with his world-destroying spells normally although put "Higher with spells" because he could use <Gilieriam Naviem>. And then for the Silver Sea key, Anos is 2-B (no likely or possibly) because of suppressing less power and throwing/tanking multiple amplified EGAs with opponents who can do the same and using seven steps with even stronger spells than Grega (deep magic spells).

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

In any case. I think the 5-A part of Anos' Pre-Silver Sea key should be bumped to 2-B (or Low 2-C/2-C, likely 2-B for those who are extremely skeptical for some reasons). Anos clearly demonstrated feats far better than moving the moon during the fight with Eques (and also the fact that his source can tank EGAs and Graham's source which is stronger than EGA). I don't see a reason to include spells in the key because he is on par with his world-destroying spells normally although put "Higher with spells" because he could use <Gilieriam Naviem>. And then for the Silver Sea key, Anos is 2-B (no likely or possibly) because of suppressing less power and throwing/tanking multiple amplified EGAs with opponents who can do the same and using seven steps with even stronger spells than Grega (deep magic spells).

I agree with everything here, but 5A key should remain in hia pre-silver Sea part as it is a clear cut 5A feat. Also, Anos has low 2C key in his pre-silver Sea part.

 

[imZer0Null]

That Egil Grone Angdroa was an amplified version of a normal <Egil Grone Angdroa> .
<Rayon> is a spell that increases the raw strength of a magic spell and also the order of an magic. Anos's <Egil Grone Angdroa> that has actually a 2B rating accepted by the wiki is just low 2C upto 2B and is imperfect. (Anos claims his earlier techniques to be imperfect after seeing Ron Cruz's dream passed onto him via Ron's source).WN chap: 527



From WN chap: 498(Anos claiming that Ron Cruz is much stronger than Eques whom you guys claim to be likely 2B)

Show me a statement where it says these specific Egil Grone Angdroa's have the power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, otherwise they only have amplified Low 2-C (or 2-C), likely 2-B AP.

**For example, Gilieriam Naviem is currently rated as 4-A, up to Low 2-C. 4-A is the starting tier for this magic, achievable when Anos takes the 1st step. Low 2-C is the end tier for this magic, and is only achievable once Anos reaches the 7th step.
Egil Grone Angdroa works similarly. It is currently rated as Low 2-C, up to 2-B. Low 2-C is the starting tier for this magic, achievable whenever Anos uses this magic. 2-B is the end tier for this magic, and would only be achievable when Anos doesn't control its power, enabling it to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds.
Simply amplifying an Egil Grone Angdroa with <Rayon> isn't enough evidence for it qualify as 2-B, the end tier of this magic.

 

[imZer0Null]

In any case. I think the 5-A part of Anos' Pre-Silver Sea key should be bumped to 2-B (or Low 2-C/2-C, likely 2-B for those who are extremely skeptical for some reasons). Anos clearly demonstrated feats far better than moving the moon during the fight with Eques (and also the fact that his source can tank EGAs and Graham's source which is stronger than EGA). I don't see a reason to include spells in the key because he is on par with his world-destroying spells normally although put "Higher with spells" because he could use <Gilieriam Naviem>.

He only displayed this power in the final fight of Arc 10. These feats obviously don't apply to anything before Arc 10. It will cause scaling problems if we suddenly assume he was always Low 2-C, likely 2-B Pre-Silver Sea.

And then for the Silver Sea key, Anos is 2-B (no likely or possibly) because of suppressing less power and throwing/tanking multiple amplified EGAs with opponents who can do the same and using seven steps with even stronger spells than Grega (de

Show me a statement where it says these specific Egil Grone Angdroa's have the power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, otherwise they only have amplified Low 2-C (or 2-C), likely 2-B AP.

**For example, Gilieriam Naviem is currently rated as 4-A, up to Low 2-C. 4-A is the starting tier for this magic, achievable when Anos takes the 1st step. Low 2-C is the end tier for this magic, and is only achievable once Anos reaches the 7th step.
Egil Grone Angdroa works similarly. It is currently rated as Low 2-C, up to 2-B. Low 2-C is the starting tier for this magic, achievable whenever Anos uses this magic. 2-B is the end tier for this magic, and would only be achievable when Anos doesn't control its power, enabling it to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds.
Simply amplifying an Egil Grone Angdroa with <Rayon> isn't enough evidence for it qualify as 2-B, then end tier of this magic.

Again, without solid evidence, withstanding these Egil Grone Angdroa's are just a Low 2-C, likely 2-B feat.

His use of Gilieriam Naviem with stronger magic simply warrants a "Higher via world-destroying magic".

**I believe based on current evidence provided in this thread, Anos' rating could be something as follows:

7-B. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. 4-A, up to Low 2-C, likely 2-B via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Up to Low 2-C, likely 2-B as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C (..., likely 2-B ?). Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A.

("Low 2-C" could possibly change to "2-C" depending on this thread.)

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't seem like we will get enough staff input here, likely due to that school has started again.

 

[Dereck03]

Staff simply won't waste their time evaluating something that they're not interested so... Anyway best we can do is still waiting for them, also there's no staff knowledgeable in this verse

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean I'd like to help, but I know absolutely nothing about this series at all

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you could try to read the post that I linked to and evaluate that if possible.

 

[Antvasima]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Ionliosite @CrimsonStarFallen

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well, you could try to read the post that I linked to and evaluate that if possible.

Well it looks fine to me

 

[Caduz213]

If bubble worlds were accepted as 2C, would the years' ability to destroy one of them with your fists change to 2-C?

 

[Dereck03]

If bubble worlds were accepted as 2C, would the years' ability to destroy one of them with your fists change to 2-C?

Yes, cuz bubbles will be rated as 2-C and also every character who scales to an universe/bubble destruction will be rated as 2-C

 

[Caduz213]

Yes, cuz bubbles will be rated as 2-C and also every character who scales to an universe/bubble destruction will be rated as 2-C

OK thank you

 

[Caduz213]

one more question Does each bubble contain countless 'gods' domains? or the only one that contains and the world of Milita?

 

[Orioreeem]

one more question Does each bubble contain countless 'gods' domains? or the only one that contains and the world of Milita?

Every bubble most likely since Gods exist in every bubble.

 

[Caduz213]

Every bubble most likely since Gods exist in every bubble.

Ok Thank You

 

[Dereck03]

bump

 

[TMC_667]

He only displayed this power in the final fight of Arc 10.

He tanked an EGA in Arc 6 (275). Graham's lightning spewing out of his source were world-destroying (369) and attacked Anos. Anos was fine. Anos used the most powerful of Celis' lightning spells with Gaudgemon which are world-destroying And Graham's source was absorbed in Arc 8 which Anos has said requires more destruction than the destruction of the world to destroy (372). <Gilieriam Naviem> is just releasing power he already had (275). Obviously Low 2-C durability. Anos has enough power to tank Low 2-C attacks. Don't even bother telling me 5-A AP with Low 2-C durability. Strength scales to magic power. And Pre-Silver Sea means Pre-Silver Sea. If it happens anywhere in the specificed arcs, it's still a feat that is the best for that key. And the feats are 2-B.

These feats obviously don't apply to anything before Arc 10

There's a difference between not doing something and not being able to do something. And many durability feats have occurred. I hope you realize that for <Gilieriam Naviem> to be Low 2-C, Anos would have to already have at least Low 2-C power in his source.

7-B. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. 4-A, up to Low 2-C, likely 2-B via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Up to Low 2-C, likely 2-B as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C (..., likely 2-B ?). Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A.

No, it's such a mess. You say "higher via world-destroying magic" but <Gilieriam Naviem> is just Anos releasing power in a controlled way which is why I didn't say world-destroying. Don't include 5-A at all. 5-A is stupid. And Anos is 2-B without EGA.

Show me a statement where it says these specific Egil Grone Angdroa's have the power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, otherwise they only have amplified Low 2-C (or 2-C), likely 2-B AP.

There are so many "possibly" and "likely" statements in your proposed keys because you can't accept something as the truth just because it isn't spoonfed to you. Would you like the author to keep saying hundreds and thousands for every EGA? You keep saying "show me proof" or "no proof of that" except you haven't shown any.

Loosely, I placed my feet on the earth and snapped my fingers.

The magic that spilled from the source drew a wicked spiral around my body.

- 476

This literally happens right after the "hundreds and thousands of worlds" statement. If you can't accept that the attack right after Anos says "as I try to unleash power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds" doesn't apply to his attacks afterwards I don't know what to tell you. Did he just decide to stop unleashing power after saying that? Was the Demon King's Garden overkill already?

Everything in the world went up in flames, and countless cracks appeared.

If it wasn't a three-sided world, it would have been destroyed several times and there would still be power to spare.

- 477

Even when the Eques and Anos' attacks attacks hit straight at each other and cancel most of each other's power, the collateral damage would have been able to destroy the world several times over with power to spare. They are not just Low 2-C. Literally just use common sense. If the garden was created in order to withstand 2-B attacks, it starts collapsing due to 2 Low 2-C attacks that are being destroyed by Sasha who is Low 2-C? And later the garden is at its limit (478) due to Anos using <Gilieriam Naviem> for more than just walking. And somehow the garden that can offset 2-B EGA and 2-B wheels of fate/destiny collapses due to a "likely 2-B" <Gilieriam Naviem> which already had the power to destroy 1000+ universes just by walking in 275.
There are so many ways you can be wrong. If you think that he's only 2-B because he's approaching destruction then prove that he's approaching destruction in that instance. I didn't see an increasing light statement in that chapter which is repeated like every single time someone is approaching destruction (275,358,364,450,468,517). Even if he was approaching destruction in that instance, prove that it only affected that one EGA (which I already refuted above. Anos still has magic power spilling from his source and you probably assumed that he was approaching destruction due to black particles spilling from his source). Also prove that the power boost isn't permanent even though it's been explained in 73 that you get stronger by approaching destruction to the point of not being destroyed repeatedly and how in 423, Anos further increased his power after fighting Graham (Way after the fight ended). And even if the boost wasn't permanent (goes away when healed), can you prove that Anos was able to heal his damaged source during the fight with Eques even though he has always required the help of Sasha, Misha, and/or Eleanor (such as in 291) to heal and calm down his source even though that none of them were near him at the moment?
I haven't seen this much skepticism since a certain person doubted that world = universe because not every single thing in the universe was mentioned every time world-destroying spells were used.
Go with:

7-B. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 2-B. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 2-B. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A.

How in the world do you still have doubts about 2-B for the Silver Sea key anyway? He can literally destroy a deep world just by opening his chaotic destruction eyes (631) and the deep world is uncountably more durable than shallow worlds (way higher than 1001). Just read the MGnF Terminology blog. The imperfect Lions of Destruction can destroy entire countries of deep worlds while shallow world-destroying spells can't destroy a ship (and countries > 1001 ships). An EGA has already destroyed a deep bubble (still uncountably greater) and Anos has triumphed over the person who used that spell with other spells. And don't single out EGA and world-destroying spells as 2-B when he literally uses a variety of deepened spells (which are all world-destroying and all at least 2-B at this point) to fight other deep world characters. There has just been varying degrees of 2-B since Arc 10. I only included <Gilieriam Naviem> in the keys because Anos is releasing more power not because he has destruction spells that are way above his regular strength.

It will cause scaling problems if we suddenly assume he was always Low 2-C, likely 2-B Pre-Silver Sea.

Like what? Is that an excuse to downgrade a clearly Universal+ character to planetary level? And downgrade feats that can destroy thousands of universes to just several? Anyways, I think I'm done with this thread. Feel free to disagree with what I said for whatever odd reason. I agree with pretty much everything in the CRT except 2-B bubbles unless there's more proof of that somewhere.

 

[Dir333]

LN is currently upto vol. 10 part 1. Part 2 will be released in 5th October and doesnot have any stuff related to Silver Sea. LN vol. 11 contains the "Ginshui Silver Sea Edition". All I know is that the "order of reincarnation" is infinitely weaker in Silver Sea than Militia World and in Militia World than 7th of Elenesia.

Do you have the link to the ln???

 

[Dereck03]

I agree with pretty much everything in the CRT except 2-B bubbles unless there's more proof of that somewhere.

This was a good explanation, although you got one part wrong, no one suggested 2-B for the bubbles, but that the bubbles should be 2-C instead of Low 2-C.

 

[imZer0Null]

He tanked an EGA in Arc 6 (275). Graham's lightning spewing out of his source were world-destroying (369) and attacked Anos. Anos was fine. Anos used the most powerful of Celis' lightning spells with Gaudgemon which are world-destroying And Graham's source was absorbed in Arc 8 which Anos has said requires more destruction than the destruction of the world to destroy (372). <Gilieriam Naviem> is just releasing power he already had (275). Obviously Low 2-C durability. Anos has enough power to tank Low 2-C attacks. Don't even bother telling me 5-A AP with Low 2-C durability. Strength scales to magic power. And Pre-Silver Sea means Pre-Silver Sea. If it happens anywhere in the specified arcs, it's still a feat that is the best for that key. And the feats are 2-B.

All of this is just because he becomes stronger as he approaches destruction.

There's a difference between not doing something and not being able to do something. And many durability feats have occurred. I hope you realize that for <Gilieriam Naviem> to be Low 2-C, Anos would have to already have at least Low 2-C power in his source.

Yes, he has Low 2-C power in his source, and likely has far higher power in his source, but all that power is constantly suppressed.

No, it's such a mess. You say "higher via world-destroying magic" but <Gilieriam Naviem> is just Anos releasing power in a controlled way which is why I didn't say world-destroying.

So far he's mainly released his power via Gilieriam Naviem, which is why he's "higher via world-destroying magic". His True Power key is the hypothetical key for when he doesn't use magic to releases his power.

There are so many "possibly" and "likely" statements in your proposed keys because you can't accept something as the truth just because it isn't spoonfed to you. Would you like the author to keep saying hundreds and thousands for every EGA? You keep saying "show me proof" or "no proof of that" except you haven't shown any.
This literally happens right after the "hundreds and thousands of worlds" statement. If you can't accept that the attack right after Anos says "as I try to unleash power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds" doesn't apply to his attacks afterwards I don't know what to tell you. Did he just decide to stop unleashing power after saying that? Was the Demon King's Garden overkill already?
Even when the Eques and Anos' attacks attacks hit straight at each other and cancel most of each other's power, the collateral damage would have been able to destroy the world several times over with power to spare. They are not just Low 2-C. Literally just use common sense. If the garden was created in order to withstand 2-B attacks, it starts collapsing due to 2 Low 2-C attacks that are being destroyed by Sasha who is Low 2-C? And later the garden is at its limit (478) due to Anos using <Gilieriam Naviem> for more than just walking. And somehow the garden that can offset 2-B EGA and 2-B wheels of fate/destiny collapses due to a "likely 2-B"

And Eques was damaged by the 2-B Egil Grone Angdroa. Just because he wasn't vaporised doesn't mean he should fully scale to the attack.

<Gilieriam Naviem> which already had the power to destroy 1000+ universes just by walking in 275.

Incorrect. It has the power to destroy the world a thousand times.
Destroying single universe 1000 times =/= destroying 1000 universes, iirc.

There are so many ways you can be wrong. If you think that he's only 2-B because he's approaching destruction then prove that he's approaching destruction in that instance. I didn't see an increasing light statement in that chapter which is repeated like every single time someone is approaching destruction (275,358,364,450,468,517). Even if he was approaching destruction in that instance, prove that it only affected that one EGA (which I already refuted above. Anos still has magic power spilling from his source and you probably assumed that he was approaching destruction due to black particles spilling from his source). Also prove that the power boost isn't permanent even though it's been explained in 73 that you get stronger by approaching destruction to the point of not being destroyed repeatedly and how in 423, Anos further increased his power after fighting Graham (Way after the fight ended). And even if the boost wasn't permanent (goes away when healed), can you prove that Anos was able to heal his damaged source during the fight with Eques even though he has always required the help of Sasha, Misha, and/or Eleanor (such as in 291) to heal and calm down his source even though that none of them were near him at the moment?

Anos just suppresses his power after the fights.
Also refer to the following, since you keep thinking Eques should have a solid 2-B rating:

And Eques was damaged by the 2-B Egil Grone Angdroa. Just because he wasn't vaporised doesn't mean he should fully scale to the attack.

How in the world do you still have doubts about 2-B for the Silver Sea key anyway? He can literally destroy a deep world just by opening his chaotic destruction eyes (631) and the deep world is uncountably more durable than shallow worlds (way higher than 1001). Just read the MGnF Terminology blog. The imperfect Lions of Destruction can destroy entire countries of deep worlds while shallow world-destroying spells can't destroy a ship (and countries > 1001 ships). An EGA has already destroyed a deep bubble (still uncountably greater) and Anos has triumphed over the person who used that spell with other spells. And don't single out EGA and world-destroying spells as 2-B when he literally uses a variety of deepened spells (which are all world-destroying and all at least 2-B at this point) to fight other deep world characters.

This isn't how "multipliers" work at all. Being infinitely stronger than a Low 2-C is still Low 2-C.

There has just been varying degrees of 2-B since Arc 10. I only included <Gilieriam Naviem> in the keys because Anos is releasing more power not because he has destruction spells that are way above his regular strength.

Then we change his keys to "Arc 1-2", "Arc 3-9", "Arc 10+", and "True Power", since these apparent 2-B feats only appear in Arc 10+.

Like what? Is that an excuse to downgrade a clearly Universal+ character to planetary level? And downgrade feats that can destroy thousands of universes to just several? Anyways, I think I'm done with this thread. Feel free to disagree with what I said for whatever odd reason. I agree with pretty much everything in the CRT except 2-B bubbles unless there's more proof of that somewhere.

If Anos is suddenly rated as 2-B Pre Silver Sea, which is Arcs 3-10, then all characters who were able to harm him or withstand his attacks are suddenly 2-B, and that makes no sense.
I'm not trying to downgrade Anos at all. I'm trying to keep his profile accurate, but it seems like you just want to make Anos as OP as possible.

If people agree on changing his keys, then I would suggest something as follows:

Keys: "Arc 1-2", "Arc 3-9", "Arc 10+", "True Power".

7-B. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. X via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C, likely 2-B. Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely/at least 2-B, possibly 2-A.


Also, since we're discussing tier ratings, I think now might be a good time to revise Gilieriam Naviem's rating.

Here is its justification:

Multi-Solar System level, up to Universe level+ via <Gilieriam Naviem> (Nirvana Seven Steps Conquest <Gilieriam Naviem> releases the destructive power condensed at Anos' source with each step and raises the level of all power. There are seven steps; With every coming of Anos' steps, the entire universe begins to shake more and more violently. If the seventh step is unleashed, the already fragile universe will be destroyed a thousand times).

The highlighted part is a mistranslation as far as I know.

That statement actually says the following:

The sixth step--
The earth, which is no longer a trace of anything, is simply trampled and shaken violently.
The only remaining light in front of me is trampled by my step, and the world closes in darkness.

This doesn't matter much however, since Anos was destroying the traces of everything when he first used Gilieriam Naviem, and destroying 700 million years worth of traces is an unquantifiable below baseline Low 2-C feat.

Therefore, I would suggest Gilieriam Naviem's rating be changed to "Low 2-C, likely 2-B" or something similar.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Show me a statement where it says these specific Egil Grone Angdroa's have the power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, otherwise they only have amplified Low 2-C (or 2-C), likely 2-B AP.

It seems that you are ignoring my evidences.

"--It's a completely ridiculous technique. Gather the power of magic in your palm and seize it with all your might. You can grasp that it's a fire of destruction, but the more you collect it in one point, the more powerful it is than it should be. If you can't control the raging power in your hands, you'll be instantly dokan. "
If the only purpose is to protect yourself, it is much better to build an anti-magic technique with the same magical power.
Even if I grab the magic, <Egil Grone Angdroa> heavily resonates in the core of my body
On top of that, amount of consumed magic power was more than usual.

--WN chap: 496
The above scan is when Anos took an amplified <Egil Grone Angdroa> in his hand and felt the difference between this and Trace God.
If you haven't read that chapter, pls read, pls read, and know what does <Rayon> does.
<Rayon> can also increase the power of order and even the silver light in worlds (hard to explain what it is). Read 498-499
Rayon can also grasp authority and order.

『アノス殿。小世界を出入りするには、銀灯を感知し、その風や波に乗る船が必要です。その船は、世界主神にしか創ることができ――』
俺の体内で、ロンクルスの根源が絶句する。

黒穹へ＜覇弾炎魔熾重砲ドグダ・アズベダラ＞を乱れ撃ったのだ。

蒼き恒星が、黒き空を鮮やかに炎上させる.
腰に下げた剣を抜き放ち、根源からこぼれる黒き粒子を纏わせる。

俺の力とこの二律剣の力、両方合わせれば容易いはずだ。

「＜掌握魔手レイオン＞」

二律剣が夕闇に輝き、蒼く燃える空を一閃した。
＜極獄界滅灰燼魔砲エギル・グローネ・アングドロア＞さえつかむことのできる＜掌握魔手レイオン＞ならば、見えぬ銀灯にも効果があるだろう。
本来は魔法をつかむ＜掌握魔手レイオン＞だが、二律僭主が魔剣と化しているためなにもつかめず、それはただ＜覇弾炎魔熾重砲ドグダ・アズベダラ＞の炎上を加速させる。

Its common sense and normal logic, that Anos's imperfect <Egil Grone Angdroa> which has low 2C upto 2B rating has obviously less AP than the sam spell being amplified by <Rayon>. I will leave this matter to staff since youren't undertanding.(since you are ignoring the scans being provided to you, I am sure you will ask that,"Where is it stated that this amplified version can destroy 100s and 1000s of universes"?
My answer is ,"Its an amplified version so it is more than 100s and 1000s of universes. Read the chapters".)
Read 527.

"The end-of-life fire that destroys the world spills quietly and quietly.
　At that moment, I concentrate my magical power on my right hand and move the turret of the magic circle.
　If that scene you dreamed of is a reality, then this magic has a long way to go.
"-Is it like this?"
　The fire of the end burns even the space, and in a dream, it depicts a magic circle of black ashes, just as the devastating tyrant Amuru did."

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

He tanked an EGA in Arc 6 (275). Graham's lightning spewing out of his source were world-destroying (369) and attacked Anos. Anos was fine. Anos used the most powerful of Celis' lightning spells with Gaudgemon which are world-destroying And Graham's source was absorbed in Arc 8 which Anos has said requires more destruction than the destruction of the world to destroy (372). <Gilieriam Naviem> is just releasing power he already had (275). Obviously Low 2-C durability. Anos has enough power to tank Low 2-C attacks. Don't even bother telling me 5-A AP with Low 2-C durability. Strength scales to magic power. And Pre-Silver Sea means Pre-Silver Sea. If it happens anywhere in the specificed arcs, it's still a feat that is the best for that key. And the feats are 2-B.

There's a difference between not doing something and not being able to do something. And many durability feats have occurred. I hope you realize that for <Gilieriam Naviem> to be Low 2-C, Anos would have to already have at least Low 2-C power in his source.

No, it's such a mess. You say "higher via world-destroying magic" but <Gilieriam Naviem> is just Anos releasing power in a controlled way which is why I didn't say world-destroying. Don't include 5-A at all. 5-A is stupid. And Anos is 2-B without EGA.

There are so many "possibly" and "likely" statements in your proposed keys because you can't accept something as the truth just because it isn't spoonfed to you. Would you like the author to keep saying hundreds and thousands for every EGA? You keep saying "show me proof" or "no proof of that" except you haven't shown any.

This literally happens right after the "hundreds and thousands of worlds" statement. If you can't accept that the attack right after Anos says "as I try to unleash power to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds" doesn't apply to his attacks afterwards I don't know what to tell you. Did he just decide to stop unleashing power after saying that? Was the Demon King's Garden overkill already?

Even when the Eques and Anos' attacks attacks hit straight at each other and cancel most of each other's power, the collateral damage would have been able to destroy the world several times over with power to spare. They are not just Low 2-C. Literally just use common sense. If the garden was created in order to withstand 2-B attacks, it starts collapsing due to 2 Low 2-C attacks that are being destroyed by Sasha who is Low 2-C? And later the garden is at its limit (478) due to Anos using <Gilieriam Naviem> for more than just walking. And somehow the garden that can offset 2-B EGA and 2-B wheels of fate/destiny collapses due to a "likely 2-B" <Gilieriam Naviem> which already had the power to destroy 1000+ universes just by walking in 275.
There are so many ways you can be wrong. If you think that he's only 2-B because he's approaching destruction then prove that he's approaching destruction in that instance. I didn't see an increasing light statement in that chapter which is repeated like every single time someone is approaching destruction (275,358,364,450,468,517). Even if he was approaching destruction in that instance, prove that it only affected that one EGA (which I already refuted above. Anos still has magic power spilling from his source and you probably assumed that he was approaching destruction due to black particles spilling from his source). Also prove that the power boost isn't permanent even though it's been explained in 73 that you get stronger by approaching destruction to the point of not being destroyed repeatedly and how in 423, Anos further increased his power after fighting Graham (Way after the fight ended). And even if the boost wasn't permanent (goes away when healed), can you prove that Anos was able to heal his damaged source during the fight with Eques even though he has always required the help of Sasha, Misha, and/or Eleanor (such as in 291) to heal and calm down his source even though that none of them were near him at the moment?
I haven't seen this much skepticism since a certain person doubted that world = universe because not every single thing in the universe was mentioned every time world-destroying spells were used.
Go with:

7-B. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 2-B. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 2-B. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher when approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A.

How in the world do you still have doubts about 2-B for the Silver Sea key anyway? He can literally destroy a deep world just by opening his chaotic destruction eyes (631) and the deep world is uncountably more durable than shallow worlds (way higher than 1001). Just read the MGnF Terminology blog. The imperfect Lions of Destruction can destroy entire countries of deep worlds while shallow world-destroying spells can't destroy a ship (and countries > 1001 ships). An EGA has already destroyed a deep bubble (still uncountably greater) and Anos has triumphed over the person who used that spell with other spells. And don't single out EGA and world-destroying spells as 2-B when he literally uses a variety of deepened spells (which are all world-destroying and all at least 2-B at this point) to fight other deep world characters. There has just been varying degrees of 2-B since Arc 10. I only included <Gilieriam Naviem> in the keys because Anos is releasing more power not because he has destruction spells that are way above his regular strength.

Like what? Is that an excuse to downgrade a clearly Universal+ character to planetary level? And downgrade feats that can destroy thousands of universes to just several? Anyways, I think I'm done with this thread. Feel free to disagree with what I said for whatever odd reason. I agree with pretty much everything in the CRT except 2-B bubbles unless there's more proof of that somewhere.

I agree with this completely, except 2B bubbles which will require more proof. Until that all bubbles will be 2C by default.

 

[imZer0Null]

--WN chap: 497
The above scan is when Anos took an amplified <Egil Grone Angdroa> in his hand and felt the difference between this and Trace God.
If you haven't read that chapter, pls read, pls read, and know what does <Rayon> does.
<Rayon> can also increase the power of order and even the silver light in worlds (hard to explain what it is). Read 498-499
Rayon can also grasp authority and order.
Its common sense and normal logic, that Anos's imperfect <Egil Grone Angdroa> which has low 2C upto 2B rating has obviously less AP than the sam spell being amplified by <Rayon>. I will leave this matter to staff since you aren't understanding.(since you are ignoring the scans being provided to you, I am sure you will ask that,"Where is it stated that this amplified version can destroy 100s and 1000s of universes"?
My answer is ,"Its an amplified version so it is more than 100s and 1000s of universes. Read the chapters".)
Read 527.

<Rayon> amplified Egil Grone Angrdroa to an unknown degree. You cannot rate it as 2-B just because it's stronger than Low 2-C. That's simply not how it works.
Maybe I didn't clearly state this, but I believe this Egil Grone Angdroa could probably be rated as "Low 2-C, likely 2-B", as it is definitely stronger than Anos' normal Low 2-C Egil Grone Angdroa, but it is not confirmed to be as strong as the Egil Grone Angdroa that could destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, therefore it is only likely 2-B.

Also, here is my proposed new ratings for Anos. Please state what you agree or disagree with so we can reach a conclusion for this.

Keys: "Arc 1-2", "Arc 3-9", "Arc 10+", "True Power".

7-B. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. Low 2-C, likely 2-B via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C, likely 2-B. Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely/at least 2-B, possibly 2-A.

 

[Pepsiman25th]

i just saw anos got 2-A
arceus 2.0

 

[TMC_667]

And Eques was damaged by the 2-B Egil Grone Angdroa. Just because he wasn't vaporised doesn't mean he should fully scale to the attack.

I did not even mention Eques and his durability. You just dismissed a large portion of my reply with something unrelated. In short, I said 2-B EGAs (and Eques AP scales to it) throughout the whole fight and for any future EGAs and seven steps brought the garden to the brink of collapse (which can withstand said 2-B EGAs).

This isn't how "multipliers" work at all. Being infinitely stronger than a Low 2-C is still Low 2-C.

Fine then. Anos is uncountably Low 2-C in Silver Sea arcs but uncountably 2-B when he can channel his power through EGA because that happens to be his only spell that can travel through the Silver Sea (which you say is a requirement). And <Gilieriam Naviem> can further increase the power of both. So Anos used his very powerful Low 2-C bare hands to dismantle a 2-B wheel and also has Low 2-C durability to withstand 2-B attacks?

If Anos is suddenly rated as 2-B Pre Silver Sea, which is Arcs 3-10, then all characters who were able to harm him or withstand his attacks are suddenly 2-B, and that makes no sense.

His attacks aren't all 2-B though? And the people who harmed him had world-destroying power such as Graham and Eques. Anahem just had instakill hax or whatever. Trace God used EGA. Other instances are just some damage to Anos' source. His physical body is a different story but the source is what matters.

Maybe I didn't clearly state this, but I believe this Egil Grone Angdroa could probably be rated as "Low 2-C, likely 2-B", as it is definitely stronger than Anos' normal Low 2-C Egil Grone Angdroa, but it is not confirmed to be as strong as the Egil Grone Angdroa that could destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds, therefore it is only likely 2-B.

I haven't even seen you justify that future EGAs are not the same power.

Anos just suppresses his power after the fights.

Cool, but he releases said power during the Silver Sea arcs.

7-B. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. X via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C, likely 2-B. Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher as approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely/at least 2-B, possibly 2-A.

"Higher" and "far higher" means higher degree but within the same tier. And when Anos approaches destruction it jumps several tiers. Plus it's too long. Moving Arc 10 to fit with the other Silver Sea arcs doesn't change the fact that Anos had multiple Low 2-C feats since Arc 6. Go with:

7-B. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C. 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C. 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. Higher with <Gilieriam Naviem>. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A.

You can say likely or possibly 2-B as much as you want but I'm not giving up on getting rid of 5-A. Low 2-C at the lowest. 2nd and 3rd key are the same which they should be but the 3rd key is up to a ridiculously higher degree.

 

[imZer0Null]

His attacks aren't all 2-B though? And the people who harmed him had world-destroying power such as Graham and Eques. Anahem just had instakill hax or whatever. Trace God used EGA. Other instances are just some damage to Anos' source. His physical body is a different story but the source is what matters.

That's kinda my point. Characters who were able to harm him had world-destroying power, which is minimum Low 2-C AP. If Anos was able to be harmed by Low 2-C AP, then he can't fully scale to 2-B.
We've also seen how the source can withstand more than the physical body, but I don't think we can give a durability rating to a concept. That's part of the reason why Graham doesn't fully scale to Low 2-C. His source might have been able to withstand an Egil Grone Angdroa, but his physical body couldn't, iirc.

I haven't even seen you justify that future EGAs are not the same power.

The thing is, the burden of proof is on the people who claim that the later Egil Grone Angdroa's have the same 2-B AP.
However, the fact that the Egil Grone Angdroa that destroyed the Dream World Falluforral didn't destroy any other bubbles should be somewhat proof that not all Egil Grone Angdroa's have 2-B AP.

Also, refer to the following:

**For example, Gilieriam Naviem is currently rated as 4-A, up to Low 2-C. 4-A is the starting tier for this magic, achievable when Anos takes the 1st step. Low 2-C is the end tier for this magic, and is only achievable once Anos reaches the 7th step.
Egil Grone Angdroa works similarly. It is currently rated as Low 2-C, up to 2-B. Low 2-C is the starting tier for this magic, achievable whenever Anos uses this magic. 2-B is the end tier for this magic, and would only be achievable when Anos doesn't control its power, enabling it to destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds.
Simply amplifying an Egil Grone Angdroa with <Rayon> isn't enough evidence for it qualify as 2-B, the end tier of this magic.

I have agreed that <Rayon> amplified Egil Grone Angdroa's are more powerful than normal one's, which is why I proposed we rate their AP "Low 2-C, likely 2-B", but there simply isn't enough evidence to prove they always have solid 2-B AP.

Cool, but he releases said power during the Silver Sea arcs.

Yes, I agree. Which is why I could possibly agree to a "Low 2-C, likely 2-B" rating for Anos during the Silver Sea arcs.

"Higher" and "far higher" means higher degree but within the same tier. And when Anos approaches destruction it jumps several tiers.

Attack Potency

Destructive Capacity is the term used to determine the amount of damage a character can produce. It is normally the deciding factor of VS matches along with Speed. It is measured in units of energy. An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Higher
This should be used to denote a character's weapons, techniques, or attributes that are much stronger than their base level, but still within the same tier. For example, a character that is Solar System level but has an attack that multiplies their power by 100 times. In this instance it should be written as “Solar System level, higher with that ability or technique”.

Furthermore, higher may also be used to denote a case where the character is possibly or likely a higher tier, but to what degree is not specified. This is specifically referring to cases such as “At least 4-B, likely higher” or “At least Solar System level, likely higher”.

Moving Arc 10 to fit with the other Silver Sea arcs doesn't change the fact that Anos had multiple Low 2-C feats since Arc 6.
You can say likely or possibly 2-B as much as you want but I'm not giving up on getting rid of 5-A. Low 2-C at the lowest. 2nd and 3rd key are the same which they should be but the 3rd key is up to a ridiculously higher degree.

Removing the 5-A rating would also cause scaling issues. At the moment, I might be able to agree on a "At least 5-A, likely Low 2-C" for Pre-Silver Sea Anos, and "At least Low 2-C, likely higher/2-B" for Post-Silver Sea Anos.
If you can provided a solid feat from Arcs 1-9 (maybe also 10) of Anos' physical body, not his source, withstanding a confirmed Low 2-C/2-B attack with pure durability (meaning no power increase from approaching destruction or something similar), then a solid Low 2-C rating for Pre-Silver Anos is certainly possible.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Bump

 

[Dereck03]

No bump (=✖ᆽ✖=)

 

[Sus]

i agree

that thread was too long btw

 

[Antvasima]

Well it looks fine to me

Thank you for helping out.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Thank you for helping out.

I also agree now on everything that Null said.
I will soon reach home and make a proper summary.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Anos's Voldigoad's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. Far higher while approaching destruction.2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A upto 4-C via <I Guineas>. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. 4-A up to Low 2-C, likely 2B via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Higher with spells combined. Far higher while approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C, likely 2-B. Higher via world-destroying magic. Far higher while approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A. Far higher while approaching destruction.
Misha Necron's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. 2-C via <Artieltonoa>| Low 2-C. Likely much higher. 2-C via <Artieltonoa>.
Sasha Necron's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. 2-C via <Sargeldonave>. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C. Likely much higher. 2-C via <Sargeldonave>. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa>.

All bubble worlds in the Silver Sea will be considered "2-C" from now on. Anyone who scales to destruction and creation of such bubbles will automatically get a 2-C rating.Simmilarly deeper world inhabitants will have a rating of atleast "2-C", (that will be the baseline tier for them). Anyone fighting a deeper world inhabitant will automatically get the same rating.

This is the summary of what I evaluted. Feel free to point out mistakes in it,(if any).

 

[Dereck03]

Anos's Voldigoad's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. Higher with spells. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | 5-A, far higher with <I Guineas>. Low 2-C, up to 2-B via <Egil Grone Angdroa>. 4-A up to Low 2-C, likely 2B via <Gilieriam Naviem>. Higher with spells. Much higher while approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C upto 2-B. Higher via world-destroying magic. Much higher while approaching destruction. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Unknown, likely 2-B, possibly 2-A. Much higher while approaching destruction.
Misha Necron's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. 2-C via <Artieltonia>| Low 2-C. 2-C via <Artieltonia>. Likely higher.
Sasha Necron's tier will become:-
Tier: 7-B. 2-C via <Surgeldonave>. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa> | Low 2-C. 2-C via <Surgeldonave>. Likely higher. 2-B, possibly 2-A with <Venuzdonoa>

All bubble worlds in the Silver Sea will be considered 2-C from now. Anyone who scales to destruction and creation of such bubbles will automatically get a 2C rating.Simmilarly deeper world inhabitants will have a rating of atleast "low 2-C upto 2-C", (that will be the baseline tier for them). Anyone fighting a deeper world inhabitant will get the same rating.

Why Low 2-C, likely 2-C?? Bubbles will have solid 2-C rating, so Low 2-C will not exist anymore

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Why Low 2-C, likely 2-C?? Bubbles will have solid 2-C rating, so Low 2-C will not exist anymore

Where did you find "likely 2C"? Anyways, I have stated that bubbles will have a solid 2C rating. But removing "low 2C" from deeper world inhabitant's ratings will result in a lot of inconsistences as a lot of matches has been done with it.

 

[Ian2296]

Eeeh, neutral on this one, i think you need more evidence to prove that these worlds are causally disconnected