Some Digimon things...

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm sorry, but I can't disregard this anymore. I'd like to start off by saying that the things involving AP and durability are fine. It's just that the rest seems off to me. And this only involves the 2-A characters.

For starters, there's the speed thing. Mother Eater's only reason of being immeasurable is that she's higher dimensional, even though we just recently had a thread condemning that. Now I've heard that there's another reason for immeasurability, like transcending spacetime thing for Alphamon (I still find that a hyperbole, but that's for another day). But still, this string of immeasurability is traced back to 10-As. I'm sorry, but a 10-A immeaurable is quite literally the stupidest thing I've seen on the site, and I've made a profile for moon level Manaphy.

Secondly, there's the Royal Knight's resistances. They come from getting lolstomped by Zeed and surviving iirc. (I could be wrong on that) The fact that they survived at all is PIS, given that Zeed>>>>>>>>them all. If Master Roshi survived being shitstomped by Buu and then the transmutation, we'd write it off as PIS. Now, some of their resistances come from fighting Yggdrasil, and if that's not a bossfight, then it's acceptable (as long as they resisted it onscreen). If it is, then it's not. We don't scale resistances from RPG fights. It's why Sephiroth and Cloud don't resist what each other have, or for that matter, any FF character. It's why Crono and co. doesn't have Saint Seiya amount of resistances via fighting Lavos.

Finally, there's Zeed's resistances. Zeed fighting God is the vaguest statement on the wiki, but I'm willing to pass it over for now. Nowhere in the entire paragraph does it say that Zeed resisted everything that God dropped on him, and the whole "why didn't he try everything and had no choice to resort to sealing since he has infinite love" argument is speculation. Why did God seal Lucifer in Hell in Christianity if he's omnipotent and also has infinite love? Does that mean Lucifer resists everything but sealing? No. This is no different because there's no specific mention of God even fighting Zeed, let alone Zeed no-selling attacks. It honestly just falls under the realm of speculation, as I said above.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Have you read the thread in which they got the resistances?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also you do indeed have to give us time to adapt to the new rules for immeasurable y'know...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Is it a blog or a thread? I've read all the blogs. Btw, thanks for highlighting it. Shows that you care, man. And I'm not saying that sarcastically.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No it's a thread. And in the Royal Knight blog.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And we don't scale resistances from RPG fights. We scale from feats.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Why did God seal Lucifer in Hell in Christianity if he's omnipotent and also has infinite love? Does that mean Lucifer resists everything but sealing? No."

Why are you bringing theology into this?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I didnt want to say anything but to be perfectly honest I feel the same way Cal does. I always wondered why we didnt just pass off the RK's getting holy stomped by Zeed and surviving as PIS instead of giving them resistances. That would be like saying the Creation Trio are all resisant to Arceus's hax since they got curbed but still survived. Or Naruto and Sasuke are resistant to Kaguya's hax since they survived fighting her despite the obvious gap. etc.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

I'm not going to comment on the Mother Eater, but the Royal Knights have shown numerous feats of flying through time and space on their lonesome without the use of portals or external means. This is especially prevalent in Digimon X-Evolution, where they visited past, present, and future regularly to enforce Yggdrasil's will after it had chopped up pieces of the timeline.

Characters can have any speed short of irrelevant without a tier jump. Here's a Tier 9 Infinite Speed character and a Tier 7 character who explicitly escapes the abstract prisons of space and time.

I literally have an entire section on my blog compiling the various resistance feats they have since there are literally a half-dozen occurrences.

On top of being resistant to the entire Royal Knights' onslaught, the fact that there is literally only one character stronger than Zeed in the entire series that's able to place a seal on him to limit his power. There's no other character that could do it, and given his previous feats of stomping the Demon Lords ASAP there's no reason to assume that he wouldn't try everything to put Zeed down.

The Christianity comparison is also flawed since it was Michael who cast down Lucifer, not God.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Why did God seal Lucifer in Hell in Christianity if he's omnipotent and also has infinite love? Does that mean Lucifer resists everything but sealing? No"

I don't quite understand this point at all. Sorry, but while Lucemon's rebellion is kinda mirrored to the Judeo-Christian part of Lucifer's rebellion, it isn't all the same.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There is also the fact that the Royal Knights are indeed built to fight enemies like this. And have survived complete resets of the Multiverse (Which rewrites everything, including everything in it and nothing states that Yggdrasil purposely lets the Knights survive when she could easily just make new ones. The same happened in Cyber Sleuth.)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Everyone. First example that came to my head, the Christianity one. I could also say Ganon has resistance to tier 2 reality warping as the Golden Goddesses didn't strike him down.

@Repp and Dragon. Isn't Mother Eater an RPG fight? Also, just went through the resistances. Twice it's Zeed (the second time isn't even a resistance. It's a trope (otherwise everyone who got absorbed by Thantos in the DCOM Twitches has soul resistance along with anyone who got taken to the Shadow Realm in Yu-Gi-Oh, and Jake the Dog has matter manipulation resistance), the time with Yggdrasil is speculation, and is something that happens incredibly often in fiction (CIS. It's why Bowser doesn't just transmute Mario, or Fusion Zamasu doesn't try to scythe everything), and Dexmon seems to be the same. Also, I counted 4 or 5. Not a dozen.

@Repp alone. For starters, I believe I said that I know they have other feats of immeasurability (though that sounds like basic time travel and Sailor Moon lost immeasurabilty for doing something similar). And about the speed thing, the things you linked actually have feats behind them. Not absurd scaling that with the same logic would make Goombas trillions of times FTL. About Zeed, still speculation, and a good amount of it at that. Kirby fights beings using the power of the master crown countless times. It's speculation to say that they're using the same amount of power. The Triforce is said to be a fraction of the Goddesses power. How come the wielders of the full triforce aren't Low 2-C, as a fraction of 2-C is still within the realms of infinity? Who's to say Naruto and Sasuke got a major boost while fighting Kaguya making her realm creation not an outlier? Yet a quote that doesn't directly mention God counts as resistance to everything?

@Dragon. That doesn't mean much (Link is built to fight Ganon and got his ass handed to him in the Downfall Timeline and during their first encounter in OoT and WW. Cosmic Armor Superman barely beat Mandrakk. etc.), and resets are durability feats. Otherwise Bowser and Rosalina resists a ton of hax for surviving the rest of the universe.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"I could also say Ganon has resistance to tier 2 reality warping as the Golden Goddesses didn't strike him down."

Pretty sure that's because he has divine protection from them or some other plot induced reason.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's my point though. It's plot if Ganon isn't wiped out by the GGs, but it's resistance that the RKs aren't wiped out by Yggdrasil when it didn't even try to.

 

[Reppuzan]

@cal

But you still fight the Mother Eater in-story, survive a reset of an infinite number of realities, and are none the worse the wear for it. Zeed and RKs fight happens in story. As is the fight with Yggdrasil. As does the universal reset of Digimon Adventure Tri, as does fighting Dexmon who literally deconstructs everything in his general vicinity.

Darkanine, Executor, and I have shown a ridiculous number of in-story feats, yet you're continually dismissing them as PIS and RPG logic.

So fighting beings who's natural habitat is outside of time on top of fighting beings who transcend time and space isn't a feat at all?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Regarding Mother Eater. His attack is litterally reseting everything in the multiverse. In Digimon Reset is the equivalent to reseting existence as a whole. Not to mention, the same happened in Tri and at the end of Cyber Sleuth.

Your also comparing the Zeed examples yet you forget that this is 2-A Zeed and the RK are also 2-A, yet they survived he absorption and a battle with him despite his very existence destroying reality and souls. You cannot just compare every character to the situation with Digimon seeing as all the verses you mentioned have an entirely different scaling method than Digimon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also let us all keep a levelhead here.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

God is the big good of the franchise, while Zeed is the big bad, Zeed is even described as being the "Wicked God" by official sources, something very few other Digimon has (Some are described as "like a god", but very rarely "a god"). It just doesn't make sense for God to only seal Zeed when he's trying to protect all of creation from his destruction. Therefore, it's far more logical for God to attempt to put Zeed down through more traditional means.

And as others have said, it was Michael who cast down Lucifer, not God.

Additionally, for the RK resistances. Alphamon was unaffected by an attack that reset a timeline. This reset all other Digimon to a much more childlike state, yet Alphamon was unaffected. This isn't just a durability feat, but a feat that shows that space-time being altered around him doesn't affect him. The same happens in Cyber Sleuth, when he tanks the universe being reset with minor injuries at best.

Alphamon transcending space and time is not a hyperbole. It makes sense in the context. If I recall, after he transcends it, he and his fellow knights are unhinged from space and time and can freely traverse to the past, present and future. They also battle in the terminals, which are above space-time. From what I remember hearing, this is the same Alphamon as the one who fought the Mother Eater.

That 10-A character has quite a few feats that puts him where he is.

• He kept up with an Eater, who "have no concept of time".
• He traded blows with Arata, who fought Examon.
• He's more or less on par with Rina, who blitzed Barbamon
• He reacted to Sleipmon.
• He's faster than Nokia, who dodged attacks from Dynasmon.

Although, I think he should be upgraded, possibly to Low 2-C (or even low end 2-A) for being able to harm Arata, who survived the World Resetter point blank.

Edit: Bleh, stupid keyboard.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I never said it didn't. The only one I said was boss fight was Mother Eater. I don't just post things without research. You know me better than that.

And I've shown a ridiculous amount of Kirby feats, but Azzy debunked them all. Having a lot of feats doesn't mean much if they're not legit. Not saying that they aren't for sure, but quantity mean nil.

Those characters are 2-A by then, so that point is moot. And that's still scaling to a being who' 10-A. Koopas and Wigglers survive an initial stomp by Mario. Guess they're High 4-C to 4-A now.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

What does Kirby and Mario have to do with this?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dragon. That's...resetting in any fiction. Resets are nothing more than a durability feat. And 2-A is an absurdly large category. Zeed still lolstomped them. Why should they being scaled from someone who rekt them? Are Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta High 3-A for surving IS Zamasu's attack? And the thing is, I've used a bunch of different examples, to compare. Final Fantasy. Chrono Trigger. The Legend of Zelda. Yu-Gi-Oh. Dragon Ball. Disney. Mario. Kirby. Naruto. And yet none of them get that treatment.

@Dark. Speculation is speculation, no matter how it's worded.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Cal

You seem to think that the RK surviving a fight with Zeed is instant PIS when it isn't. The fact that they had a fight with Zeed and didn't die/get consigned across space and time/got erased from existence/whatever shows their durability.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

If you tank space-time being reset, then you're tanking the effects of a timeline being completely rewritten around you. You're surviving never being born. You're surviving never existing in that universe. How is that "just durability"?

To ignore the most likely possibility for the least likely and lowest possibility is horrible speculation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is going to sound way meaner than I mean it to, but it gets my point across.

So I guess Tien is 4-B via not getting chunked by Buu... But at least I get my 3-A Kirby...oh wait...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So acausality. Never had a problem with that. I've known that was acausality since Asriel Dreemurr.

Furthermore, that is FAR from the most likely possibility. I can agree with the speculation that God is the one that fought Zeed. Not too hard to believe. What I can believe is absurd speculation is that God busted out literally everything else before he busted out sealing from such a vague quote.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But wouldnt that be the same as Dialga and Palkia having Arceus level durability for not getting the same treatment? And unlike the other examples Cal listed the creation trio definitely fought against Arceus and got spanked badly.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What is your point here? Kirby nor Tien have ANYTHING to do with this. Like at all. It sounds more like you want a downgrade from 2-A than anything else.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But wouldnt that be the same as Dialga and Palkia having Arceus level durability for not getting the same treatment? And unlike the other examples Cal listed the creation trio definitely fought against Arceus and got spanked badly.

Except it is obvious Arceus was just pushing them back and not trying to kill them, unlike Zeed who naturally has the intent to kill. So no, the situations are different.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

2-A comes from fighting Mother Eater. I have no problem with that. They don't scale to Zeed, so why should they get resistances from someone who lolstomps them?

 

[The_Everlasting]

They do scale to Zeed, though?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What? Zeed beat them badly. They scale to him as much as Young Loptr scales to Bayonetta.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yes, please stay on topic Cal. Kirby, DBZ, Mario, whatever has no relevance here. It's a Digimon thread, not a whatever-thread.

Zeed was said to be a threat to all of existence by Homeostasis. Why WOULDN'T God do everything in its power to put Zeed down? Sealing Zeed only did so much, even in his sealed state Zeed was going to merge every universe into one if he wasn't stopped by Ryo Akiyama. Why would God only seal Zeed if it put an infinite number of universes in danger?

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Cal

Literally, look at the Royal Knights' pages, the last keys.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Cal Give us some evidence that this is PIS. That's not just comparing to other quite different verses.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

First off, my thread. If references help my case, then I'll make them. Sorry if that sounds too harsh, honestly.

Second, you mind linking the quote? I don't think others see how vague it is as I do.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I saw, Ever. They barely survived a fight with someone who surpasses them dozens of times over at the very least. My question is how that is not PIS.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

My question is how is it PIS? You also assume this Zeed is THAT much stronger than them. You are literally making up numbers.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"They barely survived a fight with someone who surpasses them dozens of times over at the very least."

Where are you getting those numbers from?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Obviously those numbers aren't real. But my point definitely still stands. Look at Reps blog. Look at the pages. Zeed is likely the second strongest person in the verse even while sealed, and it explicitly says on the pages and such that the RKs barely survived. I'd love to make a Galactus comparison, but you guys don't like analogies (even though this was always done here). I'm sorry. It's just that denying analogies have always been one of my pet peeves on this site, even back in 2015.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yet Reps blog also explain the reasoning for the resistances, in which were accepted.