Some Digimon things...

[The_real_cal_howard]

Stats change. Omnipresent Asriel and type 5 immortal Annoying Dog was accepted on one of the most beloved explanation blogs here but that was changed.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

The Zeed they fought wasn't even full powered, though (Though if you ask, it was still a threat to the entire Multiverse iirc). You're making up numbers to call something PIS without knowledge of what you're arguing against.

And with the analogies, the constant use of them assumes that everyone is as knowledgeable in those series as you are. As someone who doesn't play much video games or watch much anime, I can hardly follow them. It be awfully awkward if I started to break out "Magical Starsign" or "Phantasy Star" analogies on you, for example.

They're fine to use, but understand that some people may find them derailing and not constructive.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And may I ask why were they changed?

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Dark to sum up Cal's analogies.

• Character A fights Character B but A does not scale since B's feats are vastly superior to what A consistently has been shown.

Im not actually sure if it applies here though.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dragon. Asriel is only omnipresent to "lower beings", and Type 5 became absolute immortality. And it was accepted because it was a good blog. And it is. The hax explanations are on point. I still think that and Azzy's inspired my Kirby one. Nothing mentioned the anti-hax tho.

@Dark. Fair enough on the analogies part (though I'd be inclined to believe you). But I was using a hyperbole. Regardless, Zeed still lolstomped them, so they still shouldn't scale.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So those changes have nothing to do with this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It has to do with the fact that information changes, so bringing the fact that Repp's blog was accepted isn't an absolute.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

Just because a character was easily defeated does not mean they don't scale.

Characters like Asurya are still scaled to the Chaos Gods in Warhammer despite being vastly weaker. Nevertheless, they're able to stand on the same plane and thus their tier rating.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

He has other feats that scale, and he's not infinitely weaker to determine another tier.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You really think I do not know that. There were other reasons for those downgrades while your only argument was PIS. Nothing more. And we've given multiple reasons to why it isn't. I guess Saint Seiya resistances are PIS as well. Oh wait they aren't. You seem to be fine with them having these resistances from fighting foes stronger than them, but apparently Digimon doing so is PIS. Neither side is PIS.

And let me guess. Your counter will be the oh so obvious "Two wrongs don't make a right" Yet you still haven't proven this was a wrong. All you've done is provide examples to you failed escapades to get Kirby 3-A and some crap with Chrono Trigger that are not relevant here. As well as stating that this is "PIS"

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

Digimon also has other feats that scale like beating beings that can reset an infinite number of universes and definitely reside in higher-dimensional space.

I really don't see what your problem is with our evidence.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

He has other feats that scale, and he's not infinitely weaker to determine another tier.

So do the Knights. They have fought Zeed twice(The real and the fake.). They have fought Yggdrasil more than twice. And heck the Knights are not infinitely weaker than this 2-A Zeed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the last time, I don't have a problem with AP, so stop bringing it up.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dragon. As bullshit as it is, Miracles are a legitimate reason. It's why I can't come up with a legitimate downgrade for Undertale because Determination is a legitimate reason.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But the only examples you have given us are AP examples. If you have a resistance examples, how about you expand on them. Chrono Trigger dealt with that correct?

Magnamon also has the literal "Power of Miracles" in which has come into effect before. He can use this power on other allies as well. This was shown is D-Cyber.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just for the record, should this be moved to staff-only? Given the topic and im starting to feel things are beginning to get heated.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Given that other than Exceutor NO and MugenRyu are kinda important to this thread and the only people who'd get heated over this are staff, no need.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I don't think so, yet. But we need to calm down. Seems like everyone is on a different page, so to speak.

But I'm confused, if Cal is okay with the AP being scaled, why not the resistances? They survived all that the berserker Zeed put them through. Zeed was effectively bloodlusted and doing everything in his power to kill them, yet they survived.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Asuryan isn't vastly weaker than the Chaos Gods, tho. At his peak he was >>> Khaine and Morai-Heg, who are close to Slaanesh's level.

And come on, don't attack my Saint Seiya resistances. .-.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm OK with the AP being scaled to Mother Eater and Yggdrasil by proxy. I'm not okay with scaling to Zeed, not that they need it anyway.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Asuryan isn't vastly weaker than the Chaos Gods, tho. At his peak he was >>> Khaine and Morai-Heg, who are close to Slaanesh's level.
And come on, don't attack my Saint Seiya resistances. .-.

Don't worry. I even stated that they aren't PIS. I just wanted to bring up an example that was more relevant to the situation at hand.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dammit, I love Matt. So likable.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

But you haven't proved why them surviving Zeed is PIS. You're just saying it is with made up numbers. The evidence for this is on you, not us.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Dammit, I love Matt. So likable.

He tends to come in at the best times....and somehow settles the mood....kinda.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's an analogy that's completely unrelated to fiction in general.

If I beat the ever living s*** out of say, Azzy (I would never even think of doing that), and he barely escaped with his life, why should he scale to me?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

It wouldn't change much, since almost everyone on here is on the staff.

@Cal

If having a dozen instances of resisting hax is PIS, then I honestly don't know what isn't PIS. To recap:

• Being unaffected by universal resets.
• Being unaffected by multiversal resets.
• Not being wiped by Yggdrasil, who has dominion over life, death, souls, time, and space and did destroy the soul of the main character's father in the story and restored it casually later.
• Fighting the Seven Great Demon Lords who all have crap loads of hax.
• Fighting Zeed
• Fighting the Mother Eater who resets universes casually as an attack.
• Fighting each other, who are all haxed.
• Fighting Dexmon who became the Digital World and thus gained control over it, time, space, reality, e.t.c.
• Fighting Bagramo who tears the souls out of Demon Lord-class Digimon casually.
• Fighting Arkadimon, who can literally reduce things to ones and zeroes.
• UlforceVeedramon surviving being sandwiched in a void between time, space, and universes
• Shrugging off Absolute Zero attacks from MetalGarurumo.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dragon @Cal

<3 <3 <3

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Unless they actively used it on them, then your point is moot in every single instance. That's what none of you are getting. We can't just say they have resistance because they fought someone with a hax. We literally never do that for anyone else. Only one who used hax on them is Zeed, who they barely survived a fight against. Furthermore, I've already stated that resets grant acausality at best. And Absolute Zero is garbage tier hax at this level (I'm paraphrasing things from DarkLK).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We also have to remember that Digimon Resets are a little more complex than you think they are.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Darkanine explained it above, Dragon, which is why I conceded to letting them keep acausality.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

The Demon Lords do actively use their hax. They collapse space-time merely by getting irritated, DarkKnightmon had to cut off his arm after Lilithmon pricked it, Lucemon casually used Ultimate Sacrifice/Dead or Alive against the heroes, Bagramon tore out Lilithmon's soul, Barbamon regularly mind haxes everyone e.t.c. We've been saying this for the longest.

UlforceVeedramon being reduced to ones and zeroes is a plot point in V-Tamer 01 and afterward he simply shrugs off the attack before charging straight at the guy.

Still adds to my point on Resistance to Matter Manipulation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If Bagramon mind-haxes everyone, then they shouldn't have resistance, as they were clearly affected. If DarkKnightmon had to cut off his arm after she pricked it, then it's not resistance. Has Lucemon actively hit the cast with said hax moves? How about everyone else? CIS exists for a reason, guys. And never said that ALL of their resistances were hard to swallow. Matter manipulation resistance is fine. UlforceVeedramon's resistance is fine..

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

The Demon Lords (with the possible exception of Beelzemon) play dirty. They're the embodiment of sin, after all. Lilithmon collapses space time by throwing a hissy fit, and she's arguably the weakest of the bunch. The lore implies that Barbamon uses his Soul and Morality hax all the time. To assume that, for whatever arbitrary reason, that they just randomly decided to not use their powers in their bouts with the Demon Lords is ludicrous. No offense.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If we assumed they always used their abilities then we'd have Royal Knights with:

Resistance to Fate Manipulation

Resistance to Probability Manipulation.

Resistance to Elemental Manipulation

Resistance to Examon's special diseases.

Able to cancel out Invulnerability.

Resistance to Sealing

Mid-Godly Regen.

Can cancel out Regenerationn and resurrection negation.

You see we don't have that don't you?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yes actually. Dead or Alive is quite literally Lucemon's go to move. And yes Barbamon always mind haxes his foes. You realize Digimon naturally use these attacks casually right? Especially the Demon Lords of all Digimon.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

My point is that they do use their hax unlike what you've been telling everyone. DarkKnightmon is not a member of the Royal Knights, and thus had a crap ton of trouble dealing with Lilithmon after he pissed her off. Even then she was casual about using this hax.

Barbamo regularly causes angels to fall and become his minions with his mind manipulation powers.

For the last time, YES. The Royal Knights have been actively warring with the Demon Lords for ages and even Lucemon's vastly weaker Digimon Frontier version used it as his first move against the heroes.

Why do you keep denying all of these feats of resisting hax when we've laid it all bare for you?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also exactly what haxes do you not like for the Royal Knights? You've never even detailed that.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yes actually. Dead or Alive is quite literally Lucemon's go to move. And yes Barbamon always mind haxes his foes. You realize Digimon naturally use these attacks casually right? Especially the Demon Lords of all Digimon.

This

These arent super special attacks they only break out if they need too. These are literally their main attacks. It's like saying "Greymon probably never used fire based attacks against X because CIS".

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just because they would do something doesn't mean they did. Sake of the plot exists for a reason. Darkseid is a existence erasing embodiment of evil who enjoys using his hax, and yet most of the main characters are still alive and kicking. Yet only Supes resists stuff.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Heck, there are HUNDREDS of characters who can just snap their fingers and be done with it. Yet the people they fight don't get resistance.

Lucemon is fine