Solaris fights a spider (0-0-9)

[Robo432343]

Solaris (Game)

Solaris (ソラリス, Sorarisu), the Sun God, is the final boss of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). Originally a living flame, Solaris became unstable and was split into two halves during the Solaris Project; a research program at the behest of the Duke of Soleanna, who envisioned Solaris as enabling them to...

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vs

Grandfather Spider

I would. It's one of the prerogatives of being a Primal Divine Force. I can be as petty and absurd as I want.Spider to Mellori and The Player on if he would risk his plans to destroy the Spiral just to taunt them. Grandfather Spider was the primary antagonist of the third arc in the MMORPG...

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Both 5-D
SBA
Speed Equal

Solaris:

Spider:

Incon: @Robo432343 @Chanimate @Eseseso @ShakeResounding @GlaceonGamez471 @Brogeefrong @Accelerated_Evolution @MintyBoi1 @Ben_CleverName

 

[Chanimate]

Interesting match up...

Solaris

• Passively exists throughout all times, needed to be killed in every moment in time in order to actually die
• You also need to attack Solaris' mind to actually damage it in it's second form
• Passively is destroying all reality just by existing, and plans to destroy all of history
• Would really have all the powers of the Chaos Emeralds, including Dream, Conceptual, Information, Law, Causality, Physics, and Empathetic manipulation. Also manipulates Time and Fate.
• Immortal thanks to Regeneration and Resurrection, as well as just Resilient. Low-Godly Regeneration
• Invulnerability Negation (Can actually hurt Super Forms, which are invulnerable)
• Resistances to Law, Causality, Information, Dream, and Conceptual Manipulation. 2 layers of Cyber Corruption resistance and more Information Manipulation.

It's main things are breaking all of time and space passively, existing throughout all of time (necessitating that it be killed throughout all of time), and being able to do anything the Chaos Emeralds can do and more.

Grandfather Spider

• Exists outside of time and space (Acausality types 1 and 4), can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed. If he is killed in this way, the universe ceases to exist
• Has High-Godly regeneration
• Has many of the same powers as Solaris, including Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, and more.
• Negates Solaris' regeneration
• Resists most of what Solaris can do, except, seemingly, Fate Manipulation
• Probably Negates many of Solaris' abilities, including Conceptual Manipulation, as that is something he has done against other opponents

I don't know too much about Grandfather Spider, but after looking at the pages, I think Grandfather Spider takes this one. With Immeasurable Speed (both Solaris and Grandfather Spider should be Immeasurable), he should be able to attack Solaris throughout all of Time, and I don't doubt he can hit Solaris' consciousness. He also just seems to negate all of Solaris' powers, so I don't know what Solaris can do here to stop Grandfather Spider. Maybe Fate Manipulation?

Like I said, I think Grandfather Spider takes this one, especially since he has his Heart.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Solaris passively informationally deletes spider-guy

 

[Chanimate]

Solaris passively informationally deletes spider-guy

You're right, Spider Guy doesn't resist Information Manipulation. I missed that.

However, Grandfather Spider can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed (listed on the profile), so I still don't know if Solaris can win. Spider guy also has the whole Power Negation thing, but that might not activate in time.

I'm leaning more towards Inconclusive now.

 

[Brogeefrong]

You're right, Spider Guy doesn't resist Information Manipulation. I missed that.

However, Grandfather Spider can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed (listed on the profile), so I still don't know if Solaris can win. Spider guy also has the whole Power Negation thing, but that might not activate in time.

I'm leaning more towards Inconclusive now.

Solaris can also passively destroy Concepts, and if he hasent shown to be able to regenerate without his info, then the information manip would work on his regen

 

[Chanimate]

Solaris can also passively destroy Concepts, and if he hasent shown to be able to regenerate without his info, then the information manip would work on his regen

Again, the whole Power Negation (one of things it explicitly grants is negation of Conceptual Manipulation). However, it may not activate in time, so Solaris might just win before Grandfather Spider thinks to activate it.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Again, the whole Power Negation (one of things it explicitly grants is negation of Conceptual Manipulation). However, it may not activate in time, so Solaris might just win before Grandfather Spider thinks to activate it.

Cant null Information

 

[Chanimate]

Cant null Information

True

 

[Robo432343]

Solaris passively informationally deletes spider-guy

passives don't even matter here coz both get equalized down to immeasurable speed
spider can counter the info by

• nuking the cosmology and resetting it
• sealing
• BFR'ing him to an NEP palce
• a lot of abilities here

Shadow Magic (Wizard101)

Shadow Magic is an ancient form of magic in Wizard101, which is under the complete control of its embodiment, Grandfather Spider and his spider minions. It is so powerful and so dangerous, that Grandmother Raven and Bartleby told Headmaster Ambrose to never delve into it, and especially to never...

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[Brogeefrong]

passives don't even matter here coz both get equalized down to immeasurable speed
spider can counter the info by

• nuking the cosmology which is actually what he would do

Solaris was going to boom the cosmology himself so he could probably survive it

• sealing
• BFR'ing him to an NEP palce

Temporal Omnipresence/Acausality Type 3?
Other stuff might be a problem if Spider-Oldman didnt start in Solaris' Passive ability range, which he will and die

 

[Eseseso]

As a fan of both franchises, definitely following.

 

[Robo432343]

Solaris was going to boom the cosmology himself so he could probably survive it

no
you need high godly regen to survive from that level of destruction

Other stuff might be a problem

like what
the only wincon i see is info manip

if Spider-Oldman didnt start in Solaris' Passive ability range, which he will and die

i think they will both die since they are going to nuke the cosmology
also passives don't matter here since speed is equalized down to both having immeasurable

 

[LaserPrecision]

no
you need high godly regen to survive from that level of destruction

?

What's even being discussed here? Are people arguing Solaris was going to cosmology wipe AND erase themselves? They were simply erasing the cosmology down to the meaning of time itself. They weren't going to wipe out themselves.

 

[Brogeefrong]

like what
the only wincon i see is info manip

I meant for Grandfather Spider and his Shadow Magic stuff

i think they will both die since they are going to nuke the cosmology
also passives don't matter here since speed is equalized down to both having immeasurable

The fight starts and Raven gets Informationally deleted before he can do anything, so unless he has some strong passives he's cooked, Solaris also resist CM type 1

 

[Robo432343]

?

What's even being discussed here? Are people arguing Solaris was going to cosmology wipe AND erase themselves? They were simply erasing the cosmology down to the meaning of time itself. They weren't going to wipe out themselves.

i think broge is saying solaris can survive the entire cosmology being destroyed including himself

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Can´t Grandfather spider passives work on Immeasurable speed people?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Can´t Grandfather spider passives work on Immeasurable speed people?

They can, what im asking is what his passives are

 

[Eseseso]

They can, what im asking is what his passives are

He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction

The lack of scans scares me but i will let that pass

 

[Chanimate]

He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction

Solaris can do and resists a lot of these, but it's power negation that I'm really thinking Solaris can't handle. The only win for Solaris that I've seen is that Solaris passively Information Manipulations Spider out of existence, but it really sounds like they just passive hax each other out of existence, in which case this battle is probably incon.

 

[Chanimate]

Can´t Grandfather spider passives work on Immeasurable speed people?

Solaris is technically Temporal Omnipresent, but he can react to Immeasurable speed characters like Super Sonic. Also, yeah, his passives should work on Immeasurable characters.

 

[Robo432343]

Solaris can do and resists a lot of these, but it's power negation that I'm really thinking Solaris can't handle. The only win for Solaris that I've seen is that Solaris passively Information Manipulations Spider out of existence, but it really sounds like they just passive hax each other out of existence, in which case this battle is probably incon.

yeah im gonna vote incon too

i just realized that if solaris kills spider then the entire cosmology will cease to be

so they both die

 

[Chanimate]

yeah im gonna vote incon too

i just realized that if solaris kills spider then the entire cosmology will cease to be

so they both die

Cool. Inconclusive FRA

 

[Eseseso]

Incon FRA

Honestly this was a cool fight, especially as both share the theme of gods who want to destroy the cosmos.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Seems about right for two haxxed cosmology nukers.

Inconclusive FRA

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Incon FRA

 

[Brogeefrong]

incon fra den

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Incon FRA

 

[MintyBoi1]

Incon FRA

 

[Ben_CleverName]

I would really rather wait on committing to debating Wizard101 matches until after the tiering revisions, because I feel there is a very real chance that the characters (especially the god-tiers like Spider) can get to 1-A, based on talks with Ultima and a plethora of other scans. But for now I'll go ahead and add to the "incon" train.

The lack of scans scares me but i will let that pass

That would be me, admittedly. I added those a long time ago before people really cared about CRTs for that stuff. The reason they have so many is primarily due to scaling chains, and I certainly believe that they would/do still have those passives, but perhaps they shouldn't be on the profile, at least not as a whole separate tab.

 

[Eseseso]

I would really rather wait on committing to debating Wizard101 matches until after the tiering revisions, because I feel there is a very real chance that the characters (especially the god-tiers like Spider) can get to 1-A, based on talks with Ultima and a plethora of other scans. But for now I'll go ahead and add to the "incon" train.

That would be me, admittedly. I added those a long time ago before people really cared about CRTs for that stuff. The reason they have so many is primarily due to scaling chains, and I certainly believe that they would/do still have those passives, but perhaps they shouldn't be on the profile, at least not as a whole separate tab.

Wait, W101 could get 1-A? For real?

Though honestly I'd prefer P&A revisions for all the God Tiers over a bump to 1-A.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Wait, W101 could get 1-A? For real?

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Wait, W101 could get 1-A? For real?

Though honestly I'd prefer P&A revisions for all the God Tiers over a bump to 1-A.

Bartleby is unironically missing multiple passives

 

[Robo432343]

I would really rather wait on committing to debating Wizard101 matches until after the tiering revisions,

then we would have to wait a very very very long time since the tiering revisions are progressing in such a slow pace

my guess is that it will take another year until everything is finished understandably so

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

especially as both share the theme of gods who want to destroy the cosmos.

That is not Spider's ultimate goal.

 

[Eseseso]

That is not Spider's ultimate goal.

Sorry, recreate it with everyone dead in his own image.

Dude's quote on his Vs battles profile has him admitting he'd wipe out the Spiral just to spite Mellori and the player if he felt like it.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Sorry, recreate it with everyone dead in his own image.

Dude's quote on his Vs battles profile has him admitting he'd wipe out the Spiral just to spite Mellori and the player if he felt like it.

The quote was about whether or not he was willing to risk his plan to destroy the Spiral by waiting long enough for them to catch up to him "just for the opportunity to rub their noses in it" per Mellori, to which he responds with the funny.

But it's kind of lost on context anyway since his actual goal was to just get his heart back and reconcile with Raven, allegedly. He was basically playing 4D chess throughout his entire arc.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

then we would have to wait a very very very long time since the tiering revisions are progressing in such a slow pace

my guess is that it will take another year until everything is finished understandably so

That's fine, I said I would rather wait. Other people need not wait with me.

 

[Eseseso]

The quote was about whether or not he was willing to risk his plan to destroy the Spiral by waiting long enough for them to catch up to him "just for the opportunity to rub their noses in it" per Mellori, to which he responds with the funny.

But it's kind of lost on context anyway since his actual goal was to just get his heart back and reconcile with Raven, allegedly. He was basically playing 4D chess throughout his entire arc.

Didn't he hate Raven for obvious reasons until he reconciled at the last moment?

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Didn't he hate Raven for obvious reasons until he reconciled at the last moment?

He was certainly justifiably pissed about everything, but he said himself that he didn't actually hate her. Getting closer to his heart helped him remember how much he cared about her, and he said that he knew the Bat and Mellori would be the key to bringing him to where he was at that point (in the Primordial Forest with Raven).

You could argue that it was just his way of saying thank you for helping them reconcile and he didn't actually know that was how it'd all end up, but he'd prophecied/predicted a lot of stuff before that point and he could've just ended it all at Mirage if he actually wanted to simply due to the fact that he got to the Sands of Time before the Wizard & Mellori could.