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Solaris fights a spider (0-0-9)

Robo432343

Robo432343

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Solaris (Game)

Solaris (ソラリス, Sorarisu?), the Sun God, is the final boss of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). Originally a living flame, Solaris became unstable and was split into two halves during the Solaris Project; a research program at the behest of the Duke of Soleanna, who envisioned Solaris as enabling them...
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vs

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Grandfather Spider

Grandfather Spider was the primary antagonist of the third arc in the MMORPG Wizard101. He was brought into the First World by The Creator as the embodiment of Shadow and Chaos, and to act as an opposite to Grandmother Raven, who is the embodiment of Light and Order. Spider would fall in love...
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Both 5-D
SBA
Speed Equal

Solaris:

Spider:

Incon: @Robo432343 @Chanimate @Eseseso @ShakeResounding @GlaceonGamez471 @Brogeefrong @Accelerated_Evolution @MintyBoi1 @Ben_CleverName
 
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Interesting match up...

Solaris
  • Passively exists throughout all times, needed to be killed in every moment in time in order to actually die
  • You also need to attack Solaris' mind to actually damage it in it's second form
  • Passively is destroying all reality just by existing, and plans to destroy all of history
  • Would really have all the powers of the Chaos Emeralds, including Dream, Conceptual, Information, Law, Causality, Physics, and Empathetic manipulation. Also manipulates Time and Fate.
  • Immortal thanks to Regeneration and Resurrection, as well as just Resilient. Low-Godly Regeneration
  • Invulnerability Negation (Can actually hurt Super Forms, which are invulnerable)
  • Resistances to Law, Causality, Information, Dream, and Conceptual Manipulation. 2 layers of Cyber Corruption resistance and more Information Manipulation.

It's main things are breaking all of time and space passively, existing throughout all of time (necessitating that it be killed throughout all of time), and being able to do anything the Chaos Emeralds can do and more.

Grandfather Spider
  • Exists outside of time and space (Acausality types 1 and 4), can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed. If he is killed in this way, the universe ceases to exist
  • Has High-Godly regeneration
  • Has many of the same powers as Solaris, including Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, and more.
  • Negates Solaris' regeneration
  • Resists most of what Solaris can do, except, seemingly, Fate Manipulation
  • Probably Negates many of Solaris' abilities, including Conceptual Manipulation, as that is something he has done against other opponents

I don't know too much about Grandfather Spider, but after looking at the pages, I think Grandfather Spider takes this one. With Immeasurable Speed (both Solaris and Grandfather Spider should be Immeasurable), he should be able to attack Solaris throughout all of Time, and I don't doubt he can hit Solaris' consciousness. He also just seems to negate all of Solaris' powers, so I don't know what Solaris can do here to stop Grandfather Spider. Maybe Fate Manipulation?

Like I said, I think Grandfather Spider takes this one, especially since he has his Heart.
 
Brogeefrong said:
Solaris passively informationally deletes spider-guy
Click to expand...
You're right, Spider Guy doesn't resist Information Manipulation. I missed that.

However, Grandfather Spider can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed (listed on the profile), so I still don't know if Solaris can win. Spider guy also has the whole Power Negation thing, but that might not activate in time.

I'm leaning more towards Inconclusive now.
 
Chanimate said:
You're right, Spider Guy doesn't resist Information Manipulation. I missed that.

However, Grandfather Spider can only be killed if the Concepts of Shadow and Chaos are destroyed (listed on the profile), so I still don't know if Solaris can win. Spider guy also has the whole Power Negation thing, but that might not activate in time.

I'm leaning more towards Inconclusive now.
Click to expand...
Solaris can also passively destroy Concepts, and if he hasent shown to be able to regenerate without his info, then the information manip would work on his regen
 
Brogeefrong said:
Solaris can also passively destroy Concepts, and if he hasent shown to be able to regenerate without his info, then the information manip would work on his regen
Click to expand...
Again, the whole Power Negation (one of things it explicitly grants is negation of Conceptual Manipulation). However, it may not activate in time, so Solaris might just win before Grandfather Spider thinks to activate it.
 
Chanimate said:
Again, the whole Power Negation (one of things it explicitly grants is negation of Conceptual Manipulation). However, it may not activate in time, so Solaris might just win before Grandfather Spider thinks to activate it.
Click to expand...
Cant null Information
 
Robo432343 said:
passives don't even matter here coz both get equalized down to immeasurable speed
spider can counter the info by
  • nuking the cosmology which is actually what he would do
Click to expand...
Solaris was going to boom the cosmology himself so he could probably survive it
Robo432343 said:
  • sealing
  • BFR'ing him to an NEP palce
Click to expand...
Temporal Omnipresence/Acausality Type 3?
Other stuff might be a problem if Spider-Oldman didnt start in Solaris' Passive ability range, which he will and die
 
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Robo432343 said:
no
you need high godly regen to survive from that level of destruction
Click to expand...
?

What's even being discussed here? Are people arguing Solaris was going to cosmology wipe AND erase themselves? They were simply erasing the cosmology down to the meaning of time itself. They weren't going to wipe out themselves.
 
Robo432343 said:
like what
the only wincon i see is info manip
Click to expand...
I meant for Grandfather Spider and his Shadow Magic stuff
Robo432343 said:
i think they will both die since they are going to nuke the cosmology
also passives don't matter here since speed is equalized down to both having immeasurable
Click to expand...
The fight starts and Raven gets Informationally deleted before he can do anything, so unless he has some strong passives he's cooked, Solaris also resist CM type 1
 
Brogeefrong said:
They can, what im asking is what his passives are
Click to expand...
He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction
 
Eseseso said:
He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction
Click to expand...
63cg5k.png


The lack of scans scares me but i will let that pass
 
Eseseso said:
He should have the same passives as Grandmother Raven, who has these:

Reality Warping (Scaling from Bartleby and Grandfather Spider), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to herself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to Raven), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards her), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction
Click to expand...
Solaris can do and resists a lot of these, but it's power negation that I'm really thinking Solaris can't handle. The only win for Solaris that I've seen is that Solaris passively Information Manipulations Spider out of existence, but it really sounds like they just passive hax each other out of existence, in which case this battle is probably incon.
 
Chanimate said:
Solaris can do and resists a lot of these, but it's power negation that I'm really thinking Solaris can't handle. The only win for Solaris that I've seen is that Solaris passively Information Manipulations Spider out of existence, but it really sounds like they just passive hax each other out of existence, in which case this battle is probably incon.
Click to expand...
yeah im gonna vote incon too

i just realized that if solaris kills spider then the entire cosmology will cease to be

so they both die
 
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Incon FRA

Honestly this was a cool fight, especially as both share the theme of gods who want to destroy the cosmos.
 
I would really rather wait on committing to debating Wizard101 matches until after the tiering revisions, because I feel there is a very real chance that the characters (especially the god-tiers like Spider) can get to 1-A, based on talks with Ultima and a plethora of other scans. But for now I'll go ahead and add to the "incon" train.
Accelerated_Evolution said:
63cg5k.png


The lack of scans scares me but i will let that pass
Click to expand...
That would be me, admittedly. I added those a long time ago before people really cared about CRTs for that stuff. The reason they have so many is primarily due to scaling chains, and I certainly believe that they would/do still have those passives, but perhaps they shouldn't be on the profile, at least not as a whole separate tab.
 
Ben_CleverName said:
I would really rather wait on committing to debating Wizard101 matches until after the tiering revisions, because I feel there is a very real chance that the characters (especially the god-tiers like Spider) can get to 1-A, based on talks with Ultima and a plethora of other scans. But for now I'll go ahead and add to the "incon" train.

That would be me, admittedly. I added those a long time ago before people really cared about CRTs for that stuff. The reason they have so many is primarily due to scaling chains, and I certainly believe that they would/do still have those passives, but perhaps they shouldn't be on the profile, at least not as a whole separate tab.
Click to expand...
Wait, W101 could get 1-A? For real?

Though honestly I'd prefer P&A revisions for all the God Tiers over a bump to 1-A.
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
That is not Spider's ultimate goal.
Click to expand...
Sorry, recreate it with everyone dead in his own image.

Dude's quote on his Vs battles profile has him admitting he'd wipe out the Spiral just to spite Mellori and the player if he felt like it.
 
Eseseso said:
Sorry, recreate it with everyone dead in his own image.

Dude's quote on his Vs battles profile has him admitting he'd wipe out the Spiral just to spite Mellori and the player if he felt like it.
Click to expand...
The quote was about whether or not he was willing to risk his plan to destroy the Spiral by waiting long enough for them to catch up to him "just for the opportunity to rub their noses in it" per Mellori, to which he responds with the funny.

But it's kind of lost on context anyway since his actual goal was to just get his heart back and reconcile with Raven, allegedly. He was basically playing 4D chess throughout his entire arc.
 
Robo432343 said:
then we would have to wait a very very very long time since the tiering revisions are progressing in such a slow pace
tenor.gif


my guess is that it will take another year until everything is finished understandably so
Click to expand...
That's fine, I said I would rather wait. Other people need not wait with me.
 
Ben_CleverName said:
The quote was about whether or not he was willing to risk his plan to destroy the Spiral by waiting long enough for them to catch up to him "just for the opportunity to rub their noses in it" per Mellori, to which he responds with the funny.

But it's kind of lost on context anyway since his actual goal was to just get his heart back and reconcile with Raven, allegedly. He was basically playing 4D chess throughout his entire arc.
Click to expand...
Didn't he hate Raven for obvious reasons until he reconciled at the last moment?
 
Eseseso said:
Didn't he hate Raven for obvious reasons until he reconciled at the last moment?
Click to expand...
He was certainly justifiably pissed about everything, but he said himself that he didn't actually hate her. Getting closer to his heart helped him remember how much he cared about her, and he said that he knew the Bat and Mellori would be the key to bringing him to where he was at that point (in the Primordial Forest with Raven).

You could argue that it was just his way of saying thank you for helping them reconcile and he didn't actually know that was how it'd all end up, but he'd prophecied/predicted a lot of stuff before that point and he could've just ended it all at Mirage if he actually wanted to simply due to the fact that he got to the Sands of Time before the Wizard & Mellori could.
 
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