Sodam Yat and Superboy Prime upgrade

[Legion350]

I think he should be Galaxy level because he hurt Superboy Prime who has Galaxy level durability.

 

[Legion350]

Bump.

 

[Legion350]

Buuummmmmmmpppppppp

 

[Promestein]

Inconsistency

 

[Legion350]

If it's an inconsistency then why is he scaled to SBP in the first place?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Well, Yat is a holder of the Unverisal enity known as Ion....

 

[Promestein]

Well, if that's the case, it'd probably be fine, but more input would be necessary.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Wouldn't this also bump Superboys AP to Galaxy level?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Wouldn't this also bump Superboys AP to Galaxy level?

Maybe seeing how he beat Yat in a fight........but there is the fact that yat was critically injured due to he fact that Prime stabbed a lead pipe through him, that rendered his lantern powers down to half due to the lantern ring constanly healing him

 

[Legion350]

Although Prime was able to hurt Yat before he used lead on him.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^They both were on somewhat equal terms with each other with Yat actually slowing winning before the lead thing happened

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Considering that both of them were capable of harming each other, perhaps they should both be upgraded to 3-C?

 

[Antvasima]

On the other hand, DC is almost as inconsistent as Marvel, so it is hard to scale the characters based on a single occasion.

 

[Ryukama]

If we choose not to scale Sodam Yat to SBP, then that is fine.

However if we do, then logically we'd have to make them both 3-C, since they harmed each other.

Whichever of those two options we choose to go by, I guess I'm alright with.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wouldn't that upgrade Pre-Crisis Superman too, considering on SBP's page, it states that he has a near Pre-Crisis Superman level of power?

 

[Antvasima]

@Trch We may have to either just give Pre-Crisis Superman, Supergirl, Mongul, Darkseid, and possibly even Karate Kid Multi-Galaxy level ratings period, based on Superman's highest feat; or simply remove the mentioned sentence on Superboy Prime's page, and avoid scaling between different continuities.

 

[Legion350]

Plus he was able to kill the anti-monitor.

 

[PostmodernD]

Avoiding scaling based off separate continuities might be best, though it makes it difficult when silver age characters pop back up, it probably would help with confusion.

Would this also affect Yats Speed? Keeping up with SBP? Or is that too much of an outlier? I don't have much input in either direction right now. Want to see others thoughts.

 

[Legion350]

He is already MFTL+ scaling to Superboy Prime.

 

[PostmodernD]

Ah, hadn't noticed.

In that case, yes, the upgrade should happen. If we scale for one area, then I see no reason not to scale for the other, especially if it's from the same scenario.

 

[Legion350]

We should also add a key for Post Crisis Anti-Monitor

 

[Legion350]

Isn't Superboy Prime a young Precrisis Keyptonian?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

The biggest problem I have with basing anything on that fight is how incosistent it is when you think about the Ion power itself. The Ion power allows you to manipulate reality, time, space and energy at ridicolous levels.

Kyle Rayner, the original Ion, was capable of being in multiple places at once and funtioning at full power. In fact, during that time period Superman was basically out of a job because Kyle was fixing every disaster around the world. Shoot, Kyle was even doing things on other planets at the same time while being on Earth and describing it to other people! Kyle was basically omnipotent. The only reason he lost the power was basically because he gave it up as it was divorcing him from his own humanity and then used it to recharge the Central Power Battery.

Yat never used the power to it's fullest when fighting Prime, if he did, he would have won as he held all the cards. He could fight Prime in a physical sense and could have started using all the other abilites to just cheat and win. He could have just BFR Prime to the middle of space nowhere near a sun/star and let Prime run out of energy. Or he could have trapped Prime in stasis with his Time powers. The lead is also another problem that Yat could have fixed by just alterateing reality to purge it from his system. Or made himself immune. Or literally rewind time and stop it from happening.

The fact that Yat did none of this, means that it wouldn't really be accurate to use his fight with Prime as scaling base. Kyle Rayner, himself, is listed as Unknown in his AP and Durability during his time as Ion and he has much better showings. The reason is because Kyle was omnipotent. He never fought anyone of note or ran into any conflict that he could just undo with his Godlike powers.

As it stands, I'd argue that we can't do anything with Ion as we don't have proper showing to rate anyone with the powers.

 

[Legion350]

@The C2 Actually that was Hand of God Kyle Rayner not regular ION kyle.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@The C2 Actually that was Hand of God Kyle Rayner not regular ION kyle.

In what way? Because every source I've ever looked at confirms that Kyle was bonded to the Ion entity during that time period.

In fact, the only thing they said was that it was not as powerful not that it didn't have the same abilities, which really still give Yat an edge of Prime. Unless, there's something vital I'm missing here?

 

[Legion350]

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthr...respect_green_lantern_kyle_rayner_postcrisis/

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthr...respect_green_lantern_kyle_rayner_postcrisis/

I looked at the link and then did a little more digging. Apparantley from what I can find, that Ion was retconned and toned down from his previous levels.


.

 

[Legion350]

Although Kyle never didn't anything powerful besides some hyperbole and omniscience. Maybe Kyle can scale to Sodom Yat.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Although Kyle never didn't anything powerful besides some hyperbole and omniscience. Maybe Kyle can scale to Sodom Yat.

Maybe. My only problem with this is just the feeling of major incosistency in all of this. Prime and Yat were seemingly around equal level until Yat is stabbed with the lead pipe. Now, some assume that would weaken him. But that's contradicted by the fact that Green Lantern suit provided and empowered by the ring automatically creates the ideal enviroment to for the wearer to function. EX: You're a fully aquatic species, provides the same conditions as if you're under water. It was said that Yat could never let his ring's power run out or he'd succumb to the lead.

So that throws out his shield weakening due to the lead. There's also the fact that (at least, to me) that Yat was able to knock Prime around but never seemed like he was really hurting him all that much while Prime was definitely hurting him after a while. You knock someone around and hit them all you like but if it doesn't hurt them...

There's also the fact the Yat is a rookie and he never used any of his capabitiles as a Green Lantern during the fight except for a few energy blasts. He may not have been able to take the pressure of focussing and taking on someone on Prime's level at the same time? So that brings in the question of how much of the power did he really use? We must also consider that Yat is a daxamite and thus has all the same powers as a post-crisis kryptonian adding into his capabilities.

Adding into that we don't know regular Ion!Kyle's full limits and you've got a right mess. That's not even discounting the time that Superboy punched Prime hard enough to snap his head back and draw blood.

 

[Legion350]

Superboy harming Prime is massive PIS because people stronger than Prime couldn't hurt him. It seemed like Yat was going all out against Prime.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Superboy harming Prime is massive PIS because people stronger than Prime couldn't hurt him. It seemed like Yat was going all out against Prime.

I can definitely believe that Superboy hurting Prime is just bad writing but it highlights the problem when looking at comicbook characters like this. There's this inconsistency that you have to deal with. Yes, we can rule out certain things but when stuff starts pileup like what's happened here...

Yat is, first and foremost, a Green Lantern. Yet, even with infinite charage and Ion giving a boost to his Green Lantern capablities, Yat never makes any constructs in his fight with Prime. No swords, maces or anything close combat related to amp up his attacking power when fighting Prime. He doesn't even make any shields or armor to try and ward off damage.

So, in context of the fight, Yat is trying his hardest in a slugging match but he's not seemingly using all his capablities in the fight and thus, not using his head. If be different if any of his narration hinted at why. It would be different if he didn't have any faith in constructs doing anything against Prime or if he was pouring his energies into defending himself and Prime was just battering them down. But no reason is given as why he didn't do any of that.

What we have here is an almost purely physical fight. One that Prime eventually won and came out of ready to fight and while Yat was incapciated. However, Yat still put up a better fight against Prime than just about anyone else and really forced Prime to try.

End Verdict IMO: At the very least, Sodam Yat should be upgraded with a durability around Multi-Solar System. He took numerous blows from Prime and got back up to fight including heat vision, being impaled twice, and numerous blows. The vast majority of which, he shrugged off and kept fighting light nothing happened. It took Prime giving him a viscious and concentrated beatdown to incapacitate Yat. But even that didn't kill him.

On lesser note, I'd also agree that Yat's AP needs an increase. Prime is Galaxy Level in terms of durability and while Yat never got close to taking him down, he was still capable of staggering of Prime and holding his own in a 1 vs 1 fight for a decent period of time all things considering.

In the end, Ion powered Sodam Yat is a force to be reckoned with but not truly at Prime's level.

 

[Legion350]

He didn't just stagger prime he left him beaten so bad he was covered with blood.

 

[Naitez]

He didn't just stagger prime he left him beaten so bad he was covered with blood.

Pretty sure Prime got damaged more from just ripping the Anti-Monitor apart in the same story.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

He didn't just stagger prime he left him beaten so bad he was covered with blood.

Prime only bled once from what I could see and that's when Yat kicked him at one point. After that Prime started beating Yat down with almost every strike drawing blood til the rubble around them was covered in it. Pretty sure most the blood on Prime isn't his.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

In fact here's the page. After this point, the rest of the fight is just Prime going to town on him.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Did you not read want i said? Yat was servely weakned due to being stabbed by a lead pipe and unlike kyrtonians who gain there power back once kyrptonite has been removed from them, lead has a lasting affect on daximites and well kill them when left un treated, but yat had a GL ring which was healing him at the same time as fighting prime, so he was operating at least 50% willpower

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Did you not read want i said? Yat was servely weakned due to being stabbed by a lead pipe and unlike kyrtonians who gain there power back once kyrptonite has been removed from them, lead has a lasting affect on daximites and well kill them when left un treated, but yat had a GL ring which was healing him at the same time as fighting prime, so he was operating at least 50% willpower

Oh, I read and I even addressed it. Did you not read what I said? Sodam Yat was not weakened by the lead. He was poisoned but his Ring and Lantern suit conteract that. He can never power down his ring or he'll succumb in minutes.

In addition, the Ion Entity is willpower incarnate that augments a lantern's abilities. So as I'm concerned, his willpower is ultimately a combination of his and the Ion Entity's, so he's got quite a bit spare.

If you can give me actual proof (as in a page saying that or at least a source) of him powering down to like 50%, I'll concede that point.

 

[Legion350]

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

That's an automatic subroutine as I've stated. The ring just does it as it's within it's programming to maintain the user and can act as life support for it's user's needs. Yat doesn't have to focus to maintain that.

There's also a hole in that logic. If he has to maintain it himself, then he should have died the moment he was knocked out as he can't maintain the shield while unconscious. Or, the ring takes care of it for him. Given that he's alive, I'm going to go with the latter.

 

[Legion350]

I'm pretty sure he not unconscious till the end of the fight. Even when he's getting pummeled he's still conscious