So is anyone gonna talk about Frieza's resistance to Hax in the newest episode?

[Moathon]

Yeah I'm really not supposed to be here but I wanted to see if anything came up about Frieza's new feats on not just tanking SIDRA'S HAKAI ATTACK BUT ALSO CONTROLLING IT AND USING IT ON GOKU. So at the very least Frieza has to have resistance to Hax and Existance Erasure if he can survive that attack and at the very most has to have a serious Durability boost because tanking a attack like that takes a mad amount of durability otherwise he would be bye bye just like Zamasu. So he and Goku should have resistance to hax at this point.

 

[Dark649]

I was discussing about this, but for now there will be no changes until the end of the arc.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Dark649.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

>Resistance to hax


Resistance to existence erasure. Don't get ahead of the curve.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with giving Frieza and Goku resistance to existence erasure.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Will Vegeta be also given resistance he is as strong if not stronger than frieza

 

[Antvasima]

Not unless he proves the ability.

 

[Joseph619]

Will Vegeta be also given resistance he is as strong if not stronger than frieza

Does Beerus know teleportation because he's stronger than Goku? Nobody gets free powers

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Well two people who has no hax at all displayed existence erasure resistance so i thought it would have something to do with power poor Vegeta lGoku is now more steps ahead of him

 

[Antvasima]

@Howard & Dark649 So are you fine with adding "Resistance to Existence Erasure" to the Goku and Frieza pages?

 

[Huesito88]

Jose to be fair that is a technique not a resistance feat but I can Still see the reason why

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm good with add them, even tho that attack hasn't the same degree of a typical hakai. Althogh, we have a rule of not changing the profiles until the end of the arc.

 

[Antvasima]

Not changing the statistics I think. This is just a minor ability addition.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

To say that Frieza and Goku have resistance to existence erasure is too general in my opinion to put on the profiles.

The nature of the existence erasure is Ki related and we already know that Goku and Frieza have the capacity to manipulate and absorb Ki to a very high degree.

It also raises the prospect of a no limits fallacy argument occurring in a debate if we were to accept this.

We can't just allow them to be resistent to any type of existence erasure in fiction. Some existence erasure techniques in fiction even circumvent durability.

 

[Antvasima]

So what do you suggest instead? There is a massive difference between some resistance and absolute immunity.

 

[Antoniofer]

It was just a fraction of Sidra's power, is possible that the attack itself wasn't instantaneous; there is also that in DB, the stronger you are, is more possible to nullify the abilities of the enemy (Hit for example). It would be that resistence but of the lowest degree, at least for now.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

To say that Frieza and Goku have resistance to existence erasure is too general in my opinion to put on the profiles.
The nature of the existence erasure is Ki related and we already know that Goku and Frieza have the capacity to manipulate and absorb Ki to a very high degree.

It also raises the prospect of a no limits fallacy argument occurring in a debate if we were to accept this.

We can't just allow them to be resistent to any type of existence erasure in fiction. Some existence erasure techniques in fiction even circumvent durability.

This is not even a question because there are probably no one below Tier 1-A who has this kind of resistance, and both power and resistance to something is usually be treated as case by case basis. For example Geom existence erasure is obviously >>> hakai.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"there is also that in DB, the stronger you are, is more possible to nullify the abilities of the enemy (Hit for example)."

That's flat-out wrong. It's been shown several times that "higher ki > hax" is false.

 

[LazyHunter]

TBH, while I'm not against listing Hakai as existence erasure and giving goku and frieza some minor resistance to it (given that it wasn't a proper hakai, just a third of the destruction energy Sidra gave to the guy), so far it seems like it is more like body&soul destruction, given Sidra's especifically pointing how the energy would make it so that the target would not go the the Other World and how it seems to work in the manga.

In the manga, Beerus and Goku's Hakai reduces the target to a pile of dust, which is just like Beerus destroyed a egg that one time; and Beerus and Champa's short fight was affecting the room they were in, giving more credibility to those instances being caused by this "destruction energy" and Hakai being a technique using this type of energy. Goku's Hakai also only partially affects Fusion Zamasu, destroying half of his body, and Zamasu easily regens that. I have to believe having your existence even partially destroyed would have more consequences than that. It honestly looks like it's just some kind of Durability Negation technique that destroys body and soul.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

TBH, while I'm not against listing Hakai as existence erasure and giving goku and frieza some minor resistance to it (given that it wasn't a proper hakai, just a third of the destruction energy Sidra gave to the guy), so far it seems like it is more like body&soul destruction, given Sidra's especifically pointing how the energy would make it so that the target would not go the the Other World and how it seems to work in the manga.

In the manga, Beerus and Goku's Hakai reduces the target to a pile of dust, which is just like Beerus destroyed a egg that one time; and Beerus and Champa's short fight was affecting the room they were in, giving more credibility to those instances being caused by this "destruction energy" and Hakai being a technique using this type of energy. Goku's Hakai also only partially affects Fusion Zamasu, destroying half of his body, and Zamasu easily regens that. I have to believe having your existence even partially destroyed would have more consequences than that. It honestly looks like it's just some kind of Durability Negation technique that destroys body and soul.

So if it is some sort of body and soul destruction technique, would you say that Goku and Frieza have a low level of astral defence or resistance for that matter.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Lazy

I don't know why you're using the manga as evidence.

 

[LazyHunter]

@Lord Hades Prince of Darkness If it turns out to be that, they would have some degree of resistance to similar techniques or attacks trying to destroy their soul.

But again, I'm just giving my personal opinion and I think given the obvious difference between manga and anime (where despite the prior instances of destruction from Beerus and Champa, Hakai completely disintegrates the target into particles of light) it might be simpler to stick with existence erasure.

@The Everlasting

I'm not using it as evidence to make any sort of change, just pointing that the manga seems more consistent in the effects/mechanics of Destruction than the anime.

 

[Dark649]

I will not revise the profiles until the end of the arc, also Dragon Ball Super is known for its inconsistencies.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

I will not revise the profiles until the end of the arc, also Dragon Ball Super is known for its inconsistencies.

That would be a good idea for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Let's wait then.

 

[Hiyami]

To say that Frieza and Goku have resistance to existence erasure is too general in my opinion to put on the profiles.
The nature of the existence erasure is Ki related and we already know that Goku and Frieza have the capacity to manipulate and absorb Ki to a very high degree.

It also raises the prospect of a no limits fallacy argument occurring in a debate if we were to accept this.

We can't just allow them to be resistent to any type of existence erasure in fiction. Some existence erasure techniques in fiction even circumvent durability.

Yeah man, but you can't just say that because for all we know it could be some otherworldly god technique its clearly different than anything we have ever seen in any DB series, so you can't say it's not either.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

From what I've seen from the episode Sidra casually created a ball made from the same power as Hakai so the dog assassin could hold it. The ball would then have the same effects as normal Hakai when it hits you but Frieza resisted it and condensed it back and used it on Goku, Goku wasn't strong enough in base and could only resist it not stop it. The effects where happening but slowly as when Goku was saved by Beerus his clothes where torn apart. I agree with them having resistance to Existence Erasure regardless of how low it is.

I always thought we treated that hole Higher Ki > Hax as just resistance for the person who resisted it. That's why Vegito has resistance to Transmutation and not everyone else who is stronger and Goku only having resistance to Time Stop and not everyone stronger then him.

I just wanted to add my opinion on the matter, I fully agree on waiting till the end of the arc especially since its right around the corner.

This Thread should be closed if where just gonna wait

 

[Hiyami]

Also, friezas weakness seems to no longer apply after this recent episode he claims to be able to hold golden form unlimitedly now.

 

[Antvasima]

Do the rest of you think that we should get rid of Frieza's weakness? It would be a fairly limited change.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah. I'll do this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Done. I added this to the weakness section.

"By the time of the Universe Survival Arc, his limited energy weakness has all but disappeared."

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Jinx666]

Well....i mean the Destruction Energy that Frieza and Goku resisted was an extremely small fraction....and they were using a lot of their power (except Goku, who didnt even go into any forms, but id count this as an outlier personally)

They were also visibly struggling aswell.

I wouldnt go so far as to say they can resist being completely destroyed...cause im pretty sure any God of Destruction seriously could wipe them out with the Hakai.

 

[Antvasima]

You do have a good point, and regardless we should probably close this thread, as further changes will have to wait.

 

[Golden_Void]

TBH, while I'm not against listing Hakai as existence erasure and giving goku and frieza some minor resistance to it (given that it wasn't a proper hakai, just a third of the destruction energy Sidra gave to the guy), so far it seems like it is more like body&soul destruction, given Sidra's especifically pointing how the energy would make it so that the target would not go the the Other World and how it seems to work in the manga.

It's complete existence erasure, Sidra demonstrated this when he destroyed a complete city, people included.