• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Snyder Cut Discussion Thread

M3X said:
, Superman's Heat Vision being 10k celsius would obviously cause a lot of effects too, like burning stuff near the impact of the beam. Stuff like this don't happen because it hasnt to be consistent with everything.
Click to expand...
Guess you're right. Statement still feels massively inconsistent though.

Though 10k Fahrenheit still warrants heat resistance for everyone
 
Found a link to this interview.

About a minute after the timestamp Zack says Steppenwolf and Uxas are comparable to Doomsday. So I guess:
  • Superman was canonically weakened the entire time against Doomsday in the Snyder version. Hence Wonder Woman' statement making sense even including Doomsday
  • Uxas didn't have the Omega Force when he invaded Earth I guess. So the current Darkseid is stronger than the flashback one
 
There are no explanations, it's simply inconsistent. Superman didn't receive an amp from Motherbox, it doesn't make sense. He was equal to Wonder Woman, now she says she never saw someone as strong as him, even if she is as strong? I mean...

BvS Superman = Wonder Woman

BvS Superman = JL Superman > Wonder Woman = BvS Superman.... See where it gets you? It doesn't make any sense.
 
M3X said:
There are no explanations, it's simply inconsistent
Click to expand...
The only way its consistent is if Superman was still weakened the entire time. Then it would look like: Superman > Steppenwolf >~ Doomsday > Weakened Superman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman
 
Him being weakened is the only way for the two different "Steppenwolf ~ Doomsday" statements to make sense.
 
Snyder's powerscale implies Peak Superman would stomp Doomsday (like, effortlessly)...

Kinda weird
 
What I didn't like was that literally every slow motion scene has the same speed. Flash ran at near light speed and the Motherbox fell so fast, and Flash took a long time to cover all the path to revive Superman... If we compare, Barry saving Iris and Barry running at near light speeds, the slow motion speed will be the same.
 
Running at near light speed is one of his rules iirc, so it isn't his normal speed. FTL isn't going all out though, it's only running really fast.

Smallvile Flash is faster.
 
"At least Relativistic, likely far higher (Saw all members of the Justice League in slow motion. Appears invisible for them), Relativistic+ when breaking his rules (Ran at near light speed), FTL when breaking his rules (Ran beyond the speed of light)"

I think something like that works. Iirc Barry said "far beyond the speed of light" wich would be... far beyond the baseline.
 
So on the scene where they talk about flash's energy build up and generation from running I don't think you can really be used it's just he's generating enough energy to propel cyborg into the mother boxes to stop the unity and I don't think there's really anything applicable to that, I'm very open to be convinced though because I hope it can be used for something
 
The movie follows kinetic energy logics, as seen when Barry pushes a parademon and he flew away. The whole point of getting faster is too generate energy/KE. When Barry ran at near lightspeed, most of his energy went to power up the Motherbox, but he/his suit still needed to tank it. The movie also follows the relativity theory (iirc it's stated) so we can work with this.
 
Actually seeing how Barry was able to damage Arthur while not breaking his rules I imagine it can actually be used for something because if he's going at faster speeds then he has to at the very least since deal damage to steppenwolf even just due to the fact he could harm Aquaman
 
M3X said:
The movie follows kinetic energy logics, as seen when Barry pushes a parademon and he flew away. The whole point of getting faster is too generate energy/KE. When Barry ran at near lightspeed, most of his energy went to power up the Motherbox, but he/his suit still needed to tank it. The movie also follows the relativity theory (iirc it's stated) so we can work with this.
Click to expand...
That's good to hear
 
Just read a bit about relativity theory and when Barry ran at near lightspeed, time has gone back, so he was at really near lightspeed, like, reaaaally close to it.
 
M3X said:
Just read a bit about relativity theory and when Barry ran at near lightspeed, time has gone back, so he was at really near lightspeed, like, reaaaally close to it.
Click to expand...
Ik this was kinda answered earlier but on the wiki is there some way to scale characters already in place who are somewhat relativistic to like to some extent because at least in reality how we see physics when approaching speeds near and near to light speed you gain infinite mass so I know that cannot be applicable at all and would be like completely out of question or so I think. Is there any way to calculate what his AP would probably be at his high speeds. Maybe I'm asking this wrong but where would the KE generation scale stop because it can't actually hit lightspeed or else it won't be applicable to his AP. I'm saying this because we literally see him put aquaman out of the fight for a little while after he runs at him at much slower speeds so it would have to upscale no?
 
On Superman still being weakened vs Doomsday, it should be remembered that the League used the Mother Box because it would return Supes to what he was before with a whole scene about how they were gonna do this to his dead body. Supes regained enough energy after the nuke to fight DD but just wasn’t back to his peak. If we say he wasn’t weakened then we come to another issue of Diana being an unreliable source since she says Stepp > everyone else except maybe Supes but she witnesses DD directly beat the crap out of Supes and overpower him in the HV clash.

Edit: I decided to throw Erza’s weight of 72kg in to a RKE calculator using .75, .9 and .99 for the speeds when he imparts power to the Box and Victor and got
  • 75% = 791.65 megatons
  • 90% = 2 gigatons
  • 99% = 9.417 gigatons
Kinda makes sense given they say it’s gonna be such a huge power surge that they never had before or something along those lines.
 
Last edited:
Diana saying that was probably a mere personal opinion in the sense that she never sensed someone like a New God before. You can mention Ares since he was literally an Old God, a true mythological god instead of an alien god like Step but he was still weakened from his last battle with Zeus and wasn't in his prime (juding by both versions of JL, Old Gods in their prime are taller and larger than humans and Ares had a human size in 1918). So she doesn't have many examples to use for such comparison and I don't think her statement should be used to establish a power scaling.
 
Obviously we would only take said statement in the context of what Diana is aware of and Diana just had a two minute fight with Stepp where she was extremely even. She also had such a fight with DD so saying we shouldn’t use it is weird when Snyder supports it in the stream linked before. The point in my bringing that up was that pushing the idea that Supes was at full power in BvS requires you (not actually you) to say a slew of other feats and statements are wrong and even giving an additional ability of amping people to the Box.
 
True. And I don't know how to feel about the whole Supes wasn't at full power in BvS. I think he might have been at full power at the time, even with his Kryptonite wound (generally when Kryptonite isn't near him, he simply heals and recovers his strength), it's just that he was against Doomsday and not against people far weaker. Diana is the only one truly comparable to him in the League so what we see in the movie here can be attributed to the sheer power gape between him and everyone else. Taking aside beating Steppenwolf like shit and reacting to his axe strike only because he actually saw the thing. But then again, it would be out of place to say he was weakened either.

Also, is the verse gonna be downgraded like some say above?
 
very pog movie

Regardless of Snyder Cut they're getting downgraded to High 7-A I just need calcs accepted

Ares definitely needs prime vs non-prime key lol

Can we use KE for Barry?
 
Tbh, I am slightly biased towards the interpretation that JL = peak BvS cuz I was arguing it before the movie came out. That said I do still think it’s much more valid to say he was weakened as it removes all discrepancies with the scaling and uses something that has been established already.
  • Once a Box woke up, they called Stepp while Supes was dead.
  • When a Box woke up, they didn’t call Stepp while he was alive.
  • Supes death cries had the energy to wake up a Box. Flash had to approach lightspeed to do this.
  • The whole League treats Superman as the strongest and not having him is akin to straight up losing.
  • We have the Cyborg specifically explaining that the Box reverts it’s target to their previous state and this being the whole plan to bring him back.
  • Supes was hit with Kryptonite and killed before he went to fight DD. We saw he got healed but nothing says he was back at his peak.
The problem with DD is that Supes is consistently shown to be weaker than him after coming down from space so saying he isn’t weakened makes no sense with what we are told in SnyderCut. It’s either we say the Box amped him (which goes against an entire exposition scene from multiple reliable sources) or say he was weakened (nothing in BvS says he was/wasn’t by itself)

Not sure. If the new calc for the Karathen size is accepted then probably. They don’t have too many feats large scale feats. I don’t remember what the Themyscira creation calc was but city honestly seems more in line with how strong they are. A nuke was able to affect a weakened Supes (still say it was radiation that did him in), Batman brings city level sonic cannons to fight Supes, DD is destroying large parts of the city with his energy bursts etc. That continental plate feat looking wild in comparison which makes sense since no one would scale to it besides Supes and the Old Gods.

Prime Ares the goat. Uxas could block the Unity separating lightning from Zeus but Ares just came and one shot that same block and downed Uxas with a swing.
 
That's true I guess. But do we count this for the Snyder Cut or the 2017 movie? That's the question if we decide to make different keys or even separated profiles.

If we go by that, then basically everyone except Supes, Zeus, Ares and maybe Darkseid would be tier 7 and the named ones would stay tier 6 if I understand. Also, I believe the Themyscira creation was noted to be tier 6 I believe, it originally served as a justification for the general tiers when the DCEU profiles were "At least 7-A to 6-C, likely 6-B" (and before that, "At least 6-C, likely 6-B") before the plate feat being taken as a general feat for the setting.

I wish Prime Ares could have a key. I know I'm not among the majority but I really liked Ares in the DCEU and I'm convinced his prime self should get a key to show that he was stronger originally.
 
The Snyder timeline only includes MoS, BvS, WWand SnyderCut afaik so the Karathen doesn’t have any influence on the ratings for it, just the DCEU timeline.

Themyscira is one of those feats that have a bunch of different calcs, the Neutron Star feat of the DCEU, cuz I have seen stuff down at city to island so it’s kind of iffy for me.

On the Unity scaling (or lack there of rn), would being able to separate it not still scale to whatever big number it results in? Everyone (basically just Superman) getting negged by it is due to the fact that it is matter hax (which no one resists) rather than not being strong enough to tank the energy.

As for the WW tier of the League, we could scale them to the Heat Vision breaking through the scout ship (what tier would this even be?) metal since Zod and Supes scale to that in MoS, DD via being Zod on roids.
 
Indeed. Prime Ares was a beast. Basically above all other Gods since he took them all down. Probably only Zeus was his match but even then, Zeus died while Ares remained alive.

I'm still wondering when he got the lightning powers though. Did he always have them or did he get them after Zeus death. I kinda wish there was that "Kill a God to get their power & title" mythology.

If Prime Ares also had his non-prime abilities in addition to what he showed in the flashback against Darkseid, basically physicals and superior magical weaponry, then he was really versatile.

With Superman, I do feeled he was indeed weakened in BvS from snorting all that Kryptonite from Batman before being nuked.

Diana was performing similarly to him, though with gear but in JL, it is made clear that Superman > Wonder Woman by a considerable margin.

Superman is probably at the same level as Old Gods like Zeus and Prime Ares and New Gods like post Omega Force Darkseid (not Uxas).
 
Would we make a Darkseid page, more specifically a Knightmare Darkseid? Dude has the ALE and gets Supes as standard equipment. I’m just curious where the main timeline and Knightmare diverge cuz it’s possible Darkseid also has the Boxes in Knightmare.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
very pog movie

Regardless of Snyder Cut they're getting downgraded to High 7-A I just need calcs accepted

Ares definitely needs prime vs non-prime key lol

Can we use KE for Barry?
Click to expand...
Does that count for supes, darkseid and steppy too?
Also, where does it put doomsday? I know Diana basically said Steppy was the strongest opponent she ever fought.
 
Gitagon said:
Indeed. Prime Ares was a beast. Basically above all other Gods since he took them all down. Probably only Zeus was his match but even then, Zeus died while Ares remained alive.

I'm still wondering when he got the lightning powers though. Did he always have them or did he get them after Zeus death. I kinda wish there was that "Kill a God to get their power & title" mythology.

If Prime Ares also had his non-prime abilities in addition to what he showed in the flashback against Darkseid, basically physicals and superior magical weaponry, then he was really versatile.

With Superman, I do feeled he was indeed weakened in BvS from snorting all that Kryptonite from Batman before being nuked.

Diana was performing similarly to him, though with gear but in JL, it is made clear that Superman > Wonder Woman by a considerable margin.

Superman is probably at the same level as Old Gods like Zeus and Prime Ares and New Gods like post Omega Force Darkseid (not Uxas).
Click to expand...
To put it simply: he had them because he was the son of Zeus. That's about it. About his non-prime abilities, there is nothing to assume he didn't have them in his Prime form. It's just that he simply didn't use them. But I agree Prime Ares is probably the top tier ofr the verse with Zeus and Post-Superman (and probably Darkseid) and he should get a key.
 
Flash running at near-light seemingly requires a lot of build up and by his own admission he can't sustain that level of speed for long.
 
He can sustain the speed at will, what he can't sustain is all the kinetic energy accumulated from near-SoL and above, he needs to release that energy progressively, that's why he couldn't keep the energy a lot of time
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LordTracer
DCU General Discussion Thread
5 6 7
Replies
278
Views
19K
LordTracer
LordTracer
Nullflowerblush
Verdict on DC standalone elseworld and one-shot stories?
Replies
0
Views
733
Nullflowerblush
Nullflowerblush
Agnaa
Golden Age Wonder Woman Strength
Replies
15
Views
2K
Agnaa
Agnaa
DCEU Flash AP Revision - DCEU JL Durability Revision
Replies
12
Views
2K
moth123
Lloydblitzed
Kai (Ninjago) vs Wonder Woman (DC Comics) [10-0-0] (GRACE)
Replies
17
Views
2K
Hellformer
Hellformer
Back
Top