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Demon_Lord18

He/Him
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The arguments are his and I only posted them here with his permission, of course.

Good evening, Analyzing the character profiles in the Wikia, I believe that it is necessary to update most characters to the Universal level on the Wikia.

1st Argument

Zeus in his Adamas form, if he didn't hold back, could destroy the sky, which is a dimension that showed a starry sky and was called a universe by Buddha.


IMG-20231008-WA0050.jpg


Midgard being Earth is a translation error, what seemed to be something clear but is more in the sense of a mortal realm, as a physical universe where humans live and not just a planet:

人間 (Ningen): Means "human being" or "person."
生物 (Seibutsu): Means "organism" or "living being."
暮らす (Kurasu): Means "to live" or "to dwell."
ミズガルズ (Mizugaruzu): This is a Katakana word and appears to be a transliteration of "Midgard," which is a term from Norse mythology that refers to the land inhabited by humans.
地上界 (Chijoukai): Means "earthly world" or "world of mortals."

Therefore, the translated phrase with explanation of the kanji is: "Terrestrial world where humans and organisms live, known as Midgard."


The three worlds are placed equal, which makes me think they are similar in size

3rd Argument

Shiva dancing the Tandav karma and destroying the 'world and rebuilding it from the ashes' is a direct reference to the Vedas (they mention this), where the destruction of the world refers to the universe. It's exactly the same 'Dance of Death,' 'Tandav,' and Shiva's title is the 'God of the destruction of the universe.'

Therefore, I believe the Universal level is more accurate.


edit: complementing the part about midgard not just being Earth.

To exemplify my point. It is said that the universe consists of 3 planes/layers which means that everything that exists in the universe. First of all the Kanjin used is Sekai which in this context means universe since the world of humans is included that minimally is at least the planet https://www.nihongomaster.com/japanese/dictionary/word/35809/sekai-世界-せかいIt is shown that the worlds are equal in size and Valhalla has a starry sky and was called the universe by Buddha . So if Midgard is a layer of the universe, it cannot be the planet, leaving the most reasonable interpretation of being the universe of humans. And Titanomachy did not happen in heaven or hell, which means it can only have happened in the world of humans Where is it marked Zeus defeating chronos somewhere in the milky way showing a vast universe


Edit²: I removed the promotional material so you don't think that it is still one of the arguments for universal Zeus, since it is not considered canon,

Agree:

Disagree:
 
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Shiva's argument is meh since Record of Ragnarok tends to stray heavily from actual mythology, even when it directly quotes something.


Zeus is a bit interesting, but I'm not sure if we should treat those promotional clips as hard fact, I mean Zeus doesn't even use his lightning in his fight nor is it seen in the flashbacks. God's True Right is definitely the strongest attack in the series but having it scale to an attack not seen and only ever referenced in promotional material, not for the manga but for the anime seems quite iffy.
 
Zeus is a bit interesting, but I'm not sure if we should treat those promotional clips as hard fact, I mean Zeus doesn't even use his lightning in his fight nor is it seen in the flashbacks. God's True Right is definitely the strongest attack in the series but having it scale to an attack not seen and only ever referenced in promotional material, not for the manga but for the anime seems quite iffy.
The quote about Zeus is, in fact, very valid, coming from its context, in which Geir tells a curious fact about Zeus. This is reinforced by the fact that it is an "anecdote", which means "brief narrative of a funny or spicy fact". The publisher gets involved with the authors and keeps changing things, it was already a sacrifice to leave Thor with lightning powers, imagine Zeus
 
We don't use the mini anime or this webtoon as canonical, so they don't matter. Unless you prove that the author says it is canonical or that the information present there is true for the manga.
Why not? It's on the official Shumatsu website and is said to follow the main story and add some additional information

 
Why not? It's on the official Shumatsu website and is said to follow the main story and add some additional information

That just means it broadcasts after the anime airs on those days
 
Why not? It's on the official Shumatsu website and is said to follow the main story and add some additional information

Animes are adaptations and in the case of mini anime it is something original.

Regardless of whether it follows the same story or not, whether it adds more or not, it is not the primary source.

Using examples from other verses, OPM. We didn't use the extremely exaggerated scenes from the anime.

We would only use things from the anime if you have statements that the anime is something primary or that everything there is canonical or complementary said by the Author. As with Bleach, the 1000 Year War anime became the primary and the manga the secondary.
 
Animes são adaptações e no caso dos mini animes é algo original.

Independentemente de seguir a mesma história ou não, de acrescentar mais ou não, não é a fonte primária.

Usando exemplos de outros versículos, OPM. Não utilizamos as cenas extremamente exageradas do anime.

Só usaríamos coisas do anime se você tiver afirmações de que o anime é algo primário ou que tudo que existe é canônico ou complementar dito pelo Autor. Tal como acontece com Bleach, o anime da Guerra dos 1000 Anos tornou-se o principal e o mangá o secundário.
Level 3-A does not have the only evidence of citation of promotional material.

Zeus could have destroyed Heaven in his form as Adamas, fighting Adam.

And Heaven must have a universal size, besides having stars and being called a universe by the Buddha, it is shown equal to Midgard in size and Midgard as discussed before is the human universe, not the human world, where the Titanomachy happened, According to the universe explained in SNV, it is divided into 3 planes, Midgard, Valhalla and Helheim.

Which means that these 3 realms span all of cosmology, and we know that the Titanomachy was in the Milky Way and not in heaven or hell, as the only thing that has been shown to be able to connect the realms is the bifrost. Then Zeus demonstrated that he could destroy a kingdom of universal size.

2nd the quote from Shiva is clear, his title is God of the destruction of the universe, directly quoting the Kanjin "Uchuu", making reference to the original Hindu tradition where he destroys the universe and recreates it from the ashes, and this tradition is covered in Record of Ragnarok, so the “Sekai” here is the universe.

The third Hajun nearly destroyed Helheim, which is equal in size to Midgard and Valhalla.

Screenshot_20231005_170542_YouTube.jpg
 
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First of all, you put things in Portuguese.

O Nível 3-A não possui a única evidência de citação de material promocional.
I wasn't talking about other evidence, just that one.

Because I'm not interested in this discussion and I was just talking about what we use and don't use on the wiki.

2º a citação de Shiva é clara, seu título é Deus da destruição do universo, citando diretamente o Kanjin "Uchuu", fazendo referência à tradição hindu original onde ele destrói o universo e o recria das cinzas, e esta tradição é abordado em Record of Ragnarok, então o “Sekai” aqui é o universo.
On this wiki we don't use things like Religion or real mythology to highlight some type of power or tier. We only use what is inside the manga (or work) itself.

So it doesn't really matter if in Hindu it refers to the universe.

O terceiro Hajun quase destruiu Helheim, que é igual em tamanho a Midgard e Valhalla.
In addition to destroying half of the underworld taking a long time, the most that was shown was buildings being destroyed, that's all.

In this case you are taking a statement and elevating it to the maximum even if it has no support.

That's why we never used Hajun's feat for anything.

Anyway, I'm going to call Saman since RoR crts almost always never end and are forgotten by the void.
 
O Nível 3-A não possui a única evidência de citação de material promocional.

Zeus poderia ter destruído o Céu em sua forma de Adamas, lutando contra Adão.

E o Céu deve ter um tamanho universal, além de ter estrelas e ser chamado de universo pelo Buda, ele é mostrado igual a Midgard em tamanho e Midgard como discutido antes é o universo humano, e não o mundo humano, onde aconteceu a Titanomaquia, conforme o universo explicado no SNV ele é dividido em 3 planos, Midgard, Valhalla e Helheim.

O que significa que esses 3 reinos abrangem toda a cosmologia, e sabemos que a Titanomaquia estava na Via Láctea e não no céu ou no inferno, pois a única coisa que se mostrou capaz de conectar os reinos é o bifrost. Então Zeus demonstrou que poderia destruir um reino de tamanho universal.

2º a citação de Shiva é clara, seu título é Deus da destruição do universo, citando diretamente o Kanjin "Uchuu", fazendo referência à tradição hindu original onde ele destrói o universo e o recria das cinzas, e esta tradição é abordado em Record of Ragnarok, então o “Sekai” aqui é o universo.

O terceiro Hajun quase destruiu Helheim, que é igual em tamanho a Midgard e Valhalla.

Screenshot_20231005_170542_YouTube.jpg
Bro, it's in Portuguese BR 🙂, I know it's our language, but other people here speak English, lol
 
In addition to destroying half of the underworld taking a long time, the most that was shown was buildings being destroyed, that's all.

In this case you are taking a statement and elevating it to the maximum even if it has no support.

That's why we never used Hajun's feat for anything.

Anyway, I'm going to call Saman since RoR crts almost always never end and are forgotten by the void.
Additionally, Hades states that the half that was destroyed was rebuilt which indicates further that Pāpīyas destroying half of Helheim was referring to it as a civilization and not dimension.

Beelzebub also found Pāpīyas's remains in a crater, which is presumably the one he made when he died, so its clear that part of Helheim is still intact.
 
Anyways on the topic of this, yeah, it's iffy. Those extra chibi anime clips are only promotional after airing past the anime, and its still the anime so there's no reason why it applies to the manga. And even then, Zeus has never used his lightning in the manga from my memory, besides the webcomic which is its own independent thing.

The Hajun stuff doesn't really hold up since it seems to only refer to the civilization as said before.
 
For a very different reason mind you.
No actually, this is the same thing.
The whole migard thing means nothing actually you still needs to prove it means universe and as far as I am concern "Terrestrial world where humans and organism lives" means earth, since you have no proof there are other places in the universe in the verse where humans live.

Also the Zeus argument and anime argument have been rejected numerous times. Hence the discussion rule and why this should be closed.
 
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