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Shovel knight CRT part 3 downgrades and relics

Lou_change

Lou_change

He/Him
9,740
5,113
Alright this wasn’t my planned direction but here we are just going to note some things:
All dialogue was copied from the shovel knight wiki so it could be wrong.

I don’t have scans for the relics on me but yacht club games’s Facebook has a demonstration of all of them so sorry about that.

All descriptions of the relics come from Chester’s quotes to my knowledge at least I could be wrong.

with that out of the way let’s begin.
Alright so shovel knight's ap comes from this calc.
There are 4 problems with it fundamentally:
First Shield knight did survive but it is unknown how, her distance from the force that destroyed the tower, how much the giant shield she has protected her.

Second the tower wasn't completely blown up it collapsed the explosion destroyed an unknown amount of the tower causing the rest to collapse.

Third how it happened. Alright currently we have the Remnant of Fate listed as half responsible which is false. The idea seems to come from the fact the tower starts to collapse after the enchantress is defeated and the Remnant of Fate forms but let’s look at the dialogue:
Treasure Knight versus Plague Knight:
"Treasure Knight: What's the matter, Plague Knight, alchemy business slowing down? Here to make some coin? Or are the Order's coffers running dry? Can't you just synthesize all the fool's gold you want?"

"Plague Knight: Ha! Good guess! But no, it's something far more important than mere gold."

"Treasure Knight: !!!
More important than gold? Now you're just being ridiculous. Get out of here you bottom-feeder!"

"Plague Knight: Ooooooooh, your Essence is showing, hee? ?hee? ?hee! I hope you don't mind if I help myself!"


Mona and plague knight after treasure knight:
"Mona: You look like you lost a fight with a pond!"

"Plague Knight: Ocean, actually. Had to go liberate the Essence of avarice. Nice place he's got down there."

"Mona: I never understood what he saw in gold. You can just make it from sawdust and mouse skulls...."

"Plague Knight: Some people do things the hard way! Hee! Let's do some work!"


Tinker Knight versus Plague Knight:
"Tinker Knight: Oh, look, it's Plague Knight! I heard you might show up! Why have you come here?"

"Plague Knight: Ah, the esteemed inventor! I do so respect your craft, hee hee... Relinquish your Essence and you won't be harmed."

"Tinker Knight: What? I don't think so, bird mask. You have your own brain, use it or lose it!"


Propeller Knight versus Plague Knight:
"Plague Knight: They let airheads have airships? Hee hee, ha ha ha! Come down here, I need to borrow something!"

"Propeller Knight: How pedestrian! I was expecting the grand entrance! Substance over style, always with you scientists. So, I heard the most delicious rumor - you envy my suave, daring nature, do you? Get in line!"

"Plague Knight: Haha, don't flatter yourself, flyboy! Your essence is the teensiest part of my plan!"

"Propeller Knight: My essence can't be taken from me! But if you ask nicely, I'd consider giving you flying lessons! Of course, my pernicious pupil...
I'll have to charge!"

Plague Knight versus the Enchantress:
"The Enchantress: Plague Knight. Ah, so your fool's errand draws to a close."

"Plague Knight: Hee hee, you know what I'm after, Enchantress... and how important this is."

"The Enchantress: Do not speak to me of importance. Your quest is folly! You'll never be anything more than you are."

"Plague Knight: ..."

"The Enchantress: So, you've come to rob me of my Essence? To shape the world to your whim? Essence is insignificant to me, but you, my servant, must be reminded of your place."

"Plague Knight: My place is by Mona's side, and you won't stop me."

"The Enchantress: If you insist on dancing with death...
Then I shall take the lead!"


Okay these quotes will be used to help fully explain the concept here.

Treasure Knight vs Plague Knight:
When Plague Knight refers to something more valuable than gold Treasure Knight gets mad and Plague Knight claims his essence is showing and while the person who decided to help with applying the last CRT they explained it as Enhanced Senses it's more likely he is responding to Treasure Knight's greed showing, gold is highly valuable in Treasure Knight's eyes Plague Knight's comment that something is more valuable angered him.

Mona and plague knight after treasure knight:
Effective Plague Knight calls it the Essence of avarice, avarice is extreme greed for wealth or material gain.

Tinker Knight vs Plague Knight:
Tinker Knight responded to Plague Knight's request to surrender his essence by telling him to use his own brain you see both of them are geniuses it would make sense both their essences would be similar.

Propeller Knight vs Plague Knight:
Propeller Knight mocks Plague Knight by referring to his desire to take his essence by saying he wants his suave, daring nature.

Plague Knight vs The Enchantress:
This one is the least important for the mind argument but shows essences aren't relevant to physical stats.

Let's go a bit farther the ultimate potion is described able to reshape the world to the whim of the person who drinks it, making them all powerful it is likely above the essences individual power and remember they are mental aspects.

So inclusion no one scales to the destruction of the tower.

Alright so Pocket Dungeon has it's own relics and gives Shovel Knight, Shield Knight, Black Knight, King Knight, Specter Knight, Plague Knight, Mole Knight, Treasure Knight, Tinker Knight, Propeller Knight, and Polar Knight special abilities also everyone listed has these relics.
I don't know how to explain the new character powers.
So I'll explain the relics.
In pocket dungeon they are passive upgrades.
Bomb Seed Bag; Find more Bombs + bomb resistance (Supernatural Luck and Resistance to Explosion Manipulation)
Chronos Glass; Freezes time on room enter or when board is nearly full. (Time Stop)
Desperation Talon; Fatal blows recover 2HP at low health. (Life Manipulation and Absorption)
Diamond Dust; +1 Item damage and their Durability. (Statistics Amplification)
Divine Liquid; +1 damage to Undead. 10+ Chains recover all health. (Holy Manipulation or Damage Boost and healing)
Dynamallet; Your next Chain explodes. Recharges when opening chests. (Explosion Manipulation)
Fenix Feather; This feather will destroy everything and restore your Health if you fall in battle. But only once! (Okay this one is weird Healing because death in the shovel knight games is more like fainting and I don’t know what the other thing is Deconstruction maybe
Five String; +1 damage every fifth hit. (Damage Boost)
Fizzle Wand; This broken Flare Wand leaves a damaging trail wherever you walk. (Fire Manipulation )
Fury Horns; After you score a fatal blow with a Chain, your next hit will pack a furious wallop! (Damage Boost)
Gem Beet; Slows down Gem Meter depletion and slain foes grants more Gem Meter. (Gem Meter just gives more gems from murder but this itself isn’t a power)
Gem Chain; More Gems from Chains. (Supernatural Luck or Creation)
Gold Leaf Clover; Find rarer items. (Supernatural Luck)
Meal Ticket; +2 Health. (Statistics Amplification)
Mentor Manual; If you know the way, you can get out of the Dungeon faster! (Okay so this makes the exit appear faster and isn’t actually a power)
Nimbus Balloon; Don't float away... Just kiddin'. With this balloon, you'll hover just high enough to avoid floor hazards. (Flight)
Potion Napkin; Does not Chain Potions, letting them being drink singularly. (Not a power)
Power Pail; +1 damage at max Gem Meter. (Damage Boost or Statistics Amplification)
Premium Meal Ticket; +3 Health. (Statistics Amplification)
Obsidian Drill; Deal extra damage to all blocks. (Damage Boost)
Shockproof Socks; Resist electric damage. +1 damage every 10 steps. (Alright this is a weird one Resistance to Electricity Manipulation is cut and dry but the damage increase is Reactive Power Level, Statistics Amplification, Damage Boost, Electricity Manipulation, or some combination of these)
Single Glove; +1 damage to single foes. (Damage Boost)
Snoutin’ Charm; Find Gems in Blocks.(Supernatural Luck or Creation)
Swift Dagger; First strikes do +1 damage. (Damage Boost)
Third Amulet; +1 damage every 3rd hit on the same foe. (Damage Boost)
Toad Totem; Attacks poison foes. (Poison Manipulation)
Too Big Bomb; Bigger bomb explosion. (Transmutation you might think it explosion manipulation but it actually just transforms bombs into better ones)

Now I am going to explain gem meter and chains. Gem meter is gained by murder and how well you do it and is a multiplier for how much money you get Creation or Duplication. Chains are weird when you hit an enemy and more of that type exist and they are next to each other all of them are damaged, so Damage Transferal

Agree: 0
Disagree: 0
 
Last edited:
Before I look over it and more detail and/or see other input, I think it's important to find another feat/calculation to find out what they're being downgraded to.
 
I can think of a few things pulverized the wall in front of the yacht club games logo and some other breakable walls, phantom striker and black knight breaking the ground before fighting Specter knight fragmentation, or polar knight charging through large pieces of ice after destroying the mirror of fate pulverizing them.
 
I generally agree that the destruction of the tower doesn't scale, yes. I'm hazy on the specifics since it's been a while since I played the games, but I find this agreeable. As for replacement feats, Shovel Knight can destroy huge blogs of rock (the grey one, the default orange-brown blocks are probably just dirt, I think?) in a few strikes, would probably be 9-A. Not sure if there's anything better.
 
Stone takes two but I already mentioned a few and given almost every time you break something there aren’t visible remains would pulverizing them be the default guess.
 
I was able to fix the problem with the spoilers. Did anyone read the relic part?
 
I definitely agree that no one should be scaling to the tower collapse. It definitely goes against what is established and shown in-game.

neutral on the Pocket dimension stuff, haven't played that game yet.
 
Lou_change said:
I found these two calcs https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Truth_Bullets/Shovel_Knight:_Light_from_the_Darkness
vsbattles.fandom.com

Black Knight calls down some meteors(Shovel Knight)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
These seem to be the only complete shovel knight ap calcs on the site not involving the tower of fate or clouds.
Click to expand...
These are... no.

But the ones from Specter of Torment seem good! I'll give them a shot. That said the King Knight one might be a chain reaction, and would be lower anyway.
 
Maybe it might be? But I think that's meant to be soil anyway and soil pulverization is still really low.
 
Oh I was referring to what happened a bit later the yacht club games logo Easter egg it’s about 30 seconds in.
 
Ah, that would be pulverization but I think that's just a chain reaction kinda thing, happens pretty often in Shovel knight, strike one specific tile and and entire area vanishes like that
 
that really sucks that would probably be the best feat I’d question how it’s a chain reaction I don’t think they’re a bunch of explosives in breakable walls but you’re referring the animation if I am not mistaken.
 
It's been a long-ass time since I played the games (I was a Sophomore in high school for Christ's sake), but based on what I did play, I think the whole debunk for the feat itself misunderstands the original calc's implication. As far as I can recall, it more or less attributes the destruction to the Enchantress' death, thus scaling it to her, not Shield Knight. The essence argument seems irrelevant.

So aye, I'm not in agreement as of right now. I have no knowledge of Pocket Dungeon so will avoid speaking on whatever that is.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
It's been a long-ass time since I played the games (I was a Sophomore in high school for Christ's sake), but based on what I did play, I think the whole debunk for the feat itself misunderstands the original calc's implication. As far as I can recall, it more or less attributes the destruction to the Enchantress' death, thus scaling it to her, not Shield Knight. The essence argument seems irrelevant.

So aye, I'm not in agreement as of right now. I have no knowledge of Pocket Dungeon so will avoid speaking on whatever that is.
Click to expand...
The destruction was mostly due to Serum Supernus (The ultimate potion)
 
Mr._Bambu said:
It's been a long-ass time since I played the games (I was a Sophomore in high school for Christ's sake), but based on what I did play, I think the whole debunk for the feat itself misunderstands the original calc's implication. As far as I can recall, it more or less attributes the destruction to the Enchantress' death, thus scaling it to her, not Shield Knight. The essence argument seems irrelevant.

So aye, I'm not in agreement as of right now. I have no knowledge of Pocket Dungeon so will avoid speaking on whatever that is.
Click to expand...
The only quotes involving the Remnant of Fate have been listed and don't support her destroying the tower and to quote one of the comments: So, I've talked with Kep, and we can't really use the death feat for AP; as the enchantress seems to have just made an earthquake that helped collapse the tower, which would just be environmental destruction.

So, instead, since Plague Knight's potion contributed to the tower's destruction and was made with energy collected from the Order, we should divide the accepted result by two, then divide that by the number of essenses, which would be 7 (Other Order Members) + 1 (Shovel Knight) + 1 (Enchantress), dividing that by 9.

(423.13 Tons / 2) / 9 = 23.5 Tons, which would be City Block level.


The calc explicitly stated shield knight survived and the essence argument shows there isn't a reason for them to scale even if the Remnant of Fate didn't do anything.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
It's been a long-ass time since I played the games (I was a Sophomore in high school for Christ's sake), but based on what I did play, I think the whole debunk for the feat itself misunderstands the original calc's implication. As far as I can recall, it more or less attributes the destruction to the Enchantress' death, thus scaling it to her, not Shield Knight. The essence argument seems irrelevant.
Click to expand...
It's revealed in the first free DLC that an explosion at least contributed, if not did all of the destruction, currently the way it's scaled to the cast is that that potion is created by collecting the essences from the order, so it divides the result by the amount of essences that went into the potion + 1 for the enchantress.

There's also other issues with the feat, such as the fact that it was done overtime, and that collapsing a tower =/= fragmenting all of it, you just need to take out enough load-bearing structures and it would all come down.
 
Armorchompy said:
It's revealed in the first free DLC that an explosion at least contributed, if not did all of the destruction, currently the way it's scaled to the cast is that that potion is created by collecting the essences from the order, so it divides the result by the amount of essences that went into the potion + 1 for the enchantress.

There's also other issues with the feat, such as the fact that it was done overtime, and that collapsing a tower =/= fragmenting all of it, you just need to take out enough load-bearing structures and it would all come down.
Click to expand...
See this is an actual explanation, at least. Hated how Plague Knight controlled so I never ended up finishing it.
 
If it wasn't caused by the Enchantress, as the game I'd played implied it was, then I agree with a downgrade. I don't remember much in the way of back-up feats, though arguably Baz (was that his name?) had lightning iirc which would impact SK mid-air. Last I checked that makes it valid for 8-C, if this isn't an outlier. Which, if the stone breaking is 9-A, it shouldn't be.
 
Yea, Baz gets struck by natural lightning a lot in the second phase of his fight, and he can also slam the ground with his fists and create lightning that way as well. Though IIRC, it's a lot harder to get 8-C AP or durability with lightning nowadays because of reasons I forgot.
 
It's valid if done in midair, apparently. And there's another character that uses lightning too so yeah, should be usable overall. I'll try to calc that 9-A-ish feat though
 
Yeah I would be a little suspicious of just Shovel Knight and pals doing it considering you take the same damage on the floor as you do in the air but with baz it's scripted so yeah
 
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