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Actually, Bambu's and Grath's points is that this straight up won't be counted as canon. If that's the accepted result, there won't be any scaling to consider at all.Yeah okay this thread is gonna die soon since everybody’s already voted, so I think I might as well make another crt for the mirror of fate stuff.
If that gets accepted then the Kratos scaling could become a non outlier, and we could get rid of the discussion rule…but that’s for another day. I’m just gonna leave this now.
I linked the full context of the outlier, and you only focused on the falling rubble part. Please explain to me how would characters that barely scratch the baseline of 8-C be able to survive this.The large building argument is fatally flawed, given that an 8-C would be completely invulnerable to the falling rubble to begin with
it’s also fundamentally dishonest, because it was never explicitly stated (to my knowledge) that it was the building that threatened them, but more likely the death of the remnant of fate, who was releasing all its energy causing the building to explode. In short, it’s not a good anti feat, nor is it really true to begin with.
The move she used on both Shovel Knight and Shield Knight? There's a very obvious difference. The mirror was shattered and it was obvious it had no control over what it was doing, then there's also the fact it was already melting down to begin with and was maintained by weak magic users. Remmant was her using her magic to catch Shovel Knight by surprise, and to overwhelm Shield Knight so she could die alongside her.Also, the same logic that you use for the Mirror’s consuming of the world would apply to the remnant’s feat of threatening shield knight whike dying, since both were really done as suicide attacks. Either the mirror’s attack doesn’t count (I am fine with this) and the remnant’s also doesn’t, or they both count, meaning they would scale regardless.
Also, the remnant of fate is the embodiment of the enchantress’ magic to begin with, so defeating it automatically scales shovel and shield knight to its magic
This is a prep feat, it wouldn't scale to her to begin with. We don't know the specifics.I'll address this.
The plot of Shovel Knight Showdown revolves around the Mirror of Fate, a magical item that was supposedly created by the Enchantress, and the mirror world within it.
It's also a mirror, lmao. Those are pretty frail. I don't see why it being bound to some realm would cause it to spike up in durability.One of the arguments used for why the cast would scale to this feat is that they destroy the mirror itself, and it's shown that the mirror is destroying the dimension. Not only is it stated that the mirror is severely weakened prior to its fight with the cast, but the only way the mirror starts "destroying" the dimension is due to it peforming some suicide move where it turns into a portal and starts sucking up the arena, but keep in mind that it completely shuts off right after it consumes the arena its in, so it's very unlikely that it straight up destroyed the entire mirror dimension.
It still shows that the characters aren't meant to be universal lmao.The large building argument is fatally flawed, given that an 8-C would be completely invulnerable to the falling rubble to begin with
That's just headcanon.it’s also fundamentally dishonest, because it was never explicitly stated (to my knowledge) that it was the building that threatened them, but more likely the death of the remnant of fate, who was releasing all its energy causing the building to explode. In short, it’s not a good anti feat, nor is it really true to begin with.
Not only is it headcanon, it's just straight up wrong.That's just headcanon.
Hereis there an SK discussion thread?
Dead verse…but I will continue the discussion about the mirror of fate with any knowledgeable enough members there at some point.
Yeah I'm with Bambu here. Even if it is canon to the game (which I'm not seeing) it's unusable for the site.I will repeat: our specific definitions of canon as they are would not permit this, as we require canon crossovers to make a substantial investment in order to be used as such. Magic the Gathering having multitudes of books crossing over with D&D has an argument, Kratos appearing in one (1) version of the Shovel Knight games as a miniboss does not, and nor should he.
Our rules should simply state that we are not to scale Shovel Knight to his existent crossovers, as it has been discussed to death.
You were neutral the entire time who’s weWELL ****. WE TRIED.
I changed sidesYou were neutral the entire time who’s we
I can actually explain Blade Strangers stuff. Lina, the final boss (Who I actually made a profile for), is stated to be capable of eventually destroying the infinite universes in Blade Strangers' multiverse.Blade Strangers Scaling
The arguments for Shovel Knight and the rest of the cast being 2-A also don't make any sense, as while there is an infinite amount of universes in the game's cosmology, nobody scales to it, and the only proof that they do scale is a quote that says that they transcended space-time, which I really don't need to explain why that isn't enough for a 2-A rating. As such, I propose to add this to the Discussion Rule page as well:
So is somebody here willing to write an appropriate text draft based on what was accepted here?With Qawsedf's disagreement, I believe that firmly turns the tide into being unaccepted as canon.
I believe we can proceed to the rule draft (though in the OP we already have a candidate).
One small correction: It isn't GoW3 Kratos SK would be fighting, but rather, technically, Norse Kratos (Minus the Leviathan Axe, Draupnir Spear and other Norse gear). Given the entire context of attempting to hide the spoilers for Kratos going North."Do not try to scale Shovel Knight and the rest of the game's cast to God of War 3 Kratos based on the fight against Kratos in the Playstation versions of Shovel Knight. Whether or not this fight happened canonically in either verse, the outliers presented as well as Kratos being able to control his strength makes this feat unusable."
Fair enough. I'm admittedly cautious about the various past cases where these kinds of verse-specific discussion rules were adhered to far too strictly, but I suppose the inverse concern is also quite notable. I'll update the draft to mention both concretely.Rules are written under the implication that with further legitimate evidence, they may be revisited. We have had landmark cases in which such rules are overturned- with this in mind, I think it is definitely acceptable to make the rule regarding canon and scaling in tandem. Otherwise we leave the door open to the conversation being started again regardless- "aha!", says the user, "the rule is vague regarding canon, this allows us to revisit it!".
You're right that scaling is far more silly and that more people are likely to admit that over a lack of canon, but it bears mentioning both concretely, imo.
In regard to being purported as taking place in some broad time period between GoW 3 and GoW 4 (which we know was a time period of at least 150 years, given the references to the Greek saga in Tyr's vault), it may just be more appropriate to just say "Kratos" in general and not specify a game.One small correction: It isn't GoW3 Kratos SK would be fighting, but rather, technically, Norse Kratos (Minus the Leviathan Axe, Draupnir Spear and other Norse gear). Given the entire context of attempting to hide the spoilers for Kratos going North.
Looks good."Do not try to scale Shovel Knight and the rest of the game's cast to God of War 3 Kratos based on the fight against Kratos in the Playstation versions of Shovel Knight. Whether or not this fight happened canonically in either verse, the outliers presented as well as Kratos being able to control his strength makes this feat unusable."
Given that this works off of the draft suggested by the OP, I would appreciate if they could provide their input on this amendment. @Shmooply
Fine by meWonderful.
I doubt there would be any issues with implementing this now, but for the sake of transparency, I'd like to check if this sits well with some of the other staff who have given input. Namely, @LephyrTheRevanchist , @Qawsedf234 , @DarkDragonMedeus , and @Armorchompy .
What even is this take. Having fun little call to's and easter eggs in a series is not attempting to brute force another series to be canon to yours. Elden Ring has the Dragon Slayer in it, it's not like they're making a claim to be canon to Berserk by doing so. Aloy can have kratos' tattoos applied to her cosmetically in her game, same as Jin in ghost of tsushima. That's not those verses laying claim to be canon to GoW, it's just developers giving a nod and appreciation to an acquainted franchise and nothing more. How this can go over anyone's heads is uncanny to me.- The developers of God of War are already known for trying to push for the canonicity of crossovers that are nonsensical and which they have no authority over. God of War: Ragnarok references everything from Horizon: Zero Dawn, to the Last of Us, to Ratchet & Clank, to Death Stranding, to Ghost of Tsushima, and even a Playstation baseball game. They have no authority to say that these are actually all a part of some Playstation multiverse - they don't get to say that God of War is canon to a whole bunch of IPs they don't own. Yet for the purposes of the GoW story, the developers say they are.