Shin Megami Tensei Revisions / Updates

[DMB_1]

Just to add further to the High 2-A ratings.

This is from SMT IV: Apocalypse.

Sanat (Shin Megami Tensei) considers Flynn and the rest of the party as "Lower Dimensional beings", also Flynn cannot precive him in his normal aspect since this is an mid-game enemie this means Sanat is also above 4-D since some enemies before are alredy of 4-D origin and Flynn, Nanashi, etc... can see them without problem.

Are you sure that the characters are 4D, and not 3Ds with 4D power?

 

[Jesterofgames]

Out of curiosity Serph would still be 2-A correct? Or would that downgrade him?


Also i think prople consider satan's solar data weaker because "they've not shown to use there full power" at least thats what i get from the note on the page

 

[KarmodF]

Are you sure that the characters are 4D, and not 3Ds with 4D power?

Yes, Flynn, Nanashi and the rest are 3-D with Higher Dimensional powers

But the main team can see 4-D entities as far as I am aware of, not to mention that Sanat needed to become "Lower dimensions" to have a fair fight with Flynn. Emphasis on the s of dimensions, the only thing that kinda ruins it is that Sanat is a DLC boss, wich I dont know if they are after YHVH or before him.

Matt said it could be a possibility, I would wait for his input.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Serph would still be at least 2-A for defeating Harihari (Jenna Angel), Metatron, Beelzebub, and the four Cardinal Archangels.

I think some people assume that Satan in DDS 2 is weaker due to being called Solar Data. That is a misconception, since Solar Data is completely identical to regular data that all demons are comprised of.

Demons in general are comprised of data, that we already know. DDS, everything in existence is made up of data, that includes mind, body, and soul. When something dies, it is returned to God (Brahman) to be reused in an endless cycle of reincarnation. Data and Solar Data are exact same thing, the only difference is that Solar Data is located in God's domain. That's why Solar Data Satan and regular Satan are the same being. He even refers to past events in SMT II.

 

[Extreme123dz]

question, in SMT4:Apocalipse, demons which are in the Branes Universe of YHVH can be considered beings of higher dimensions up for the 4/5-D not?

Also, Angel (White Wings) is a realy a Powerfull Angel Race in the game besides Seraph who is an Herald Race?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Although I agree that Solar Data Satan should be equal to Regular Satan, it should be noted that it most likely a copy of him and not the being himself. Considering that it is mentioned earlier that all Solar Data is created by Brahman and returned to him in an endless cycle of metempsychosis ― Digital Devil Saga 2 Satan being an entity of Solar Data which resides in Brahman's creation would imply that Brahman created him, which quite obviously isn't true, since Satan being YHVH's most powerful servant and his primary aspect that stands closer to Him than all others was something established since SMT II

Doesn't change anything, just trying to clarify stuff. >~>

...I just realized that Brahman having his own Multiverse separated from the one created by YHVH kind of ties up with YHVH in Megami Tensei II saying that there are other entities like him in parallel universes

 

[Extreme123dz]

DeSu is another Separte "Multiverse" from the YHVH one, same to Persona, i have problem whit Last Bibble, and others...

 

[Aridwolverine]

I find it interesting that Satan and the four Archangels acknowledge that their not suppose to be in the Digital Devil Saga world.

After the Solar Data Satan boss fight, Shroedinger's Solar Data comments that "For every generation, in every world, the final question of life is always the same. Though the God that spirit praised is different from the God of this world..." Implying that the Digital Devil Saga world takes place in its own multiverse and that Satan isn't suppose to be there.

Also how during the four Archangels encounter, I remember them being confused on why they are in the DDS world, saying that it is different from the world they're used to, why still praising the God of the other world.

 

[PaChi2]

I havent read the blog, so excuse if its clear cut, but here we are talking about actual High-godly regen and not what was deemed that White face had, right? The non corporeal thingy.

 

[Kepekley23]

Yep, actual High-Godly regen.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Bump

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I really need to fix Abel and Mem Aleph's profiles, the current ones are trash

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Abel's profile is garbage fire.Literal shit.Hurts to the eye.

Odi,Kyouji and Ishtar's profile also hurt.

 

[The_Everlasting]

The Soul Hackers profiles are worse.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Matt was actually seeing through Soul Hackers

Vishnu has a 2-A statement, and Tiamat (who is definitely the best Demon btw) and Apsu appear in it

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

My poor heart can't take this.C'mon.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay so

Basically

I have absolutely no idea of where to put Krishna and Brahman in the 2-A scale

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

They should be both pretty high,seeing as Brahman is comparable to Demi-Fiend,possibly Satan.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Brahman should be stronger than Satan, actually. Since he can manipulate the Data which comprises all of reality to the point of creating a copy of the thing which retained it's memories

Krishna should scale to Shesha, who damaged Lucifer and made him groan in pain

Although Krishna in SMT IV is pretty obviously supposed to be Vishnu's Avatar, and he explicitly namedrops Kalki, the 10th Avatar of Vishnu

I really don't think Vishnu or any God of the Trimurti that isn't named Brahman is in Lucifer's level, much less on the level of his strongest incarnation

Essentially

I am confused. ; - ;

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Can't we just say like,Vishnu in SMT IVA is much stronger than his normal form?

Maybe we can not scale Krishna to Brahman?

Maybe just say its a outliner for Vishnu?

idk

wtf do we do now?

Im confused.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree with Krishna being Vishnu's avatar, truly. If he was he wouldn't treat Kalki as his avatar, nor command Shesha.

 

[Aridwolverine]

The SMT IV Apocalypse Compendium outright states that Krishna is Vishnu's avatar.

"A divine hero of Hindu mythology. He is the eighth avatar of Vishnu, who is said to appear whenever the world is at risk. Name is sometimes translated as "all-attractive." Raised by cow herders. As a boy, he would play his flute, causing women to flock to him. As an adult, he became a great tactician. Shot in the back of the leg by mistake by a hunter named Jara." —Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse compendium

 

[Magi_Hussie]

"Instant Death (Through Retribution, God's Judgement and God's Breath Undodgeable Almighty Spell which has 100% chance of Killing a foe)"

Its called a "One Hit Kill" or "OHK" for short and sometimes its both OHK & Death Inducement (depending on the context being mentioned and whether the user can manipulate Death).

 

[Extreme123dz]

The SMT IV Apocalypse Compendium outright states that Krishna is Vishnu's avatar.
"A divine hero of Hindu mythology. He is the eighth avatar of Vishnu, who is said to appear whenever the world is at risk. Name is sometimes translated as "all-attractive." Raised by cow herders. As a boy, he would play his flute, causing women to flock to him. As an adult, he became a great tactician. Shot in the back of the leg by mistake by a hunter named Jara." —Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse compendium

Yep:

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Compendium makes no sense. It doesn't fit with the game proper, where he has feats far above what Vishnu's ever done, speaks of Kalki as if it is his avatar, leads a team of gods, and controls Shesha which is Vishnu's pet snake.

He ain't the avatar.

 

[Extreme123dz]

I have a Questions:

1. Someone who plays the games can brings all the Compendiums of each demon for each games? or uploaded in IMGur or likes?

2. Some descriptions of the Compendium lack more information or step, contradict what is shown in the work?

3. Are they an absolute truth to follow? The Primordial source of informartion about the Demons in contrast to teh Counterpart of Real Life?

4. In the Japanese version of the SMT games will they say more beastly things than the Localization? likewise Level 1-B / 1-A? e.e

5. Why scales the Persona Demons abilities to the Main Line or related to this?

 

[Aridwolverine]

Matt, you mention that you disagree with Krishna being Vishnu's avatar, and that if he was he wouldn't be able to command Shesha nor treat Kalki as his avatar.

Can you please explain why you think that? I just don't want to make any assumptions and misinterpret your argument.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because Ananta Shesha is the serpent upon which Vishnu reclines, and which Vishnu commands. Krishna the avatar never interacts with it in myth. It makes no sense for an avatar of Vishnu to command something that is owned by the full Vishnu.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Thanks for responding.

So you're argument is that since Ananta Shesha is Vishnu's that means only he can control it? In that case, what if I told you that Krishna...was Vishnu all along!

But serious though, the way that avatars work in Hinduism is way different than how avatars work in something like Judaism. In Judaism, you have beings like Lucifer who is suppose to represent an aspect of YHVH, yet they act like their own individuals and have a totally different mindset, their own goals and beliefs. In Hinduism however, avatars and the being they represent are the same person. Avatars in more of a manifestation in that sense.

One of the major themes of Hinduism is the duality between the Self (Individual, Identity) and Brahman (Unity/Totality/Supreme Reality with a Capital R). The truth, according to Hinduism, is that everything in existence is actually one and the same. That we are all the same being, and to achieve enlightenment, we must forego our own self-identities that bound us to this world and become one with the universe.

This belief is directly mentioned to the ending of Digital Devil Saga 2, where after Seaph defeats Brahman and reaches Nirvana, she mentions something along the lines of "I know the truth know. I am the World and the World is me." Krishna knows all of this of course. So Ananta Shesha obeying Krishna, and Krishna referring to Flynn as his Kalki actually is accurate with the philosophy of Hinduism, because Krishna is Vishnu.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Bump

I just found out one of the Mother Goddesses that you fight in Deep Strange Journey is the Virgin Mary

Which is kind of weird. To say the least

 

[Extreme123dz]

onLY APEAR IN nine and now in DSJ as a Major Character and Plot, like Ishtar and other Goddesses

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I absolutely agree with the changes and I'm happy to see it. Also if there is some confusion with the original Japanese translation, I probably can translate it. I will help as much as I can.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

These revisions are taking to long.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

And yet Aigis is still didn't updated and Labrys is still mystery......

 

[Jaakuace43]

One thing that might be worth adding:

Stephen is unbound by the cycle of transmigration/reincarnation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make him qualified to have Type 5 Immortality?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I think Type 5 Immortality is fine for Stephen, Yeah

So... Does anyone agrees with scalling the Four Cardinal Archangels to Ouroboros?


Due to:

Hmmm
I think Michael and The Archangels can remain at 2-A via scalling to Ouroboros. Since Michael should be stronger than Lilith, who scales to Maya, who in turn should be stronger than (or comparable) to Tiamat and Ouroboros, who are both fought earlier than her in Strange Journey

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ultima

Seems legito.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

already agreed FRA Now SMT is too broken help

 

[Jaakuace43]

I know what the reasoning for Sanat being High 2-A is, but what about other demons? Or which ones are being considered, even?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I disagree with Sanat being High 2-A, his statement implying Higher-Dimensions is too vague and only indicates that he sees Humans in general as being creatures of Lower-Dimensions. It doesn't say anything about his own Dimensionality