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Senna's Feat 2 (ft. Bleach Cosmology)

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Maybe this is a simplistic argument that doesn't go anywhere but here goes. We already know that referring to the planets and the universe sized Realms in their entirety are interchangeable. So the point here is to prove the Senna feat affects the greater realm and not just the planets. So, here we go.

In Memories of Nobody, how are the Soul Society and the WotL that are barreling towards each other during the course of the entire film, planet-sized? There are two major things I want to bring up here.

How is the WotL that is being pulled toward Soul Society only referring to the planet, if the sky isn't affected whatsoever in every scene that it's visible during the film? And the first scene we see, is both worlds already beginning to move towards each other, so the greater sky and sun etc not changing is questionable. Worst case scenario, the Senna feat would have to be moving a larger portion of space, including the sun and stars.

Lastly, the movie ends with the explosion between both worlds, which is again, not seen or felt in any capacity on either world from what I saw in the film.

Short version, despite moving the WotL, the sky and space beyond the planet is unphased. Considering this, I personally believe that the WotL being affected in the film is the greater realm in its entirety. This explains why the explosion in the climax, and its constant movement towards Soul Society throughout the film, is completely unseen and unnoticed on Earth despite the massive scope of the events transpiring during the movie.
 
How is the WotL that is being pulled toward Soul Society only referring to the planet, if the sky isn't affected whatsoever in every scene that it's visible during the film? And the first scene we see, is both worlds already beginning to move towards each other, so the greater sky and sun etc not changing is questionable. Worst case scenario, the Senna feat would have to be moving a larger portion of space, including the sun and stars.
Click to expand...

Why would the sky be affected? We're not assuming the planets are zooming through space on an unconventional course.
 
Why would Earth and SS be hurtling through space? They are not in the same space. Even if they move in their own spaces they would never move towards each other because they are in separate dimensions. They are moving across dimensions, and the movement is being facilitated by another separate dimension, Kyogoku. They don't need to be moving in their own spaces to be pulled towards each other across dimensions by the Kyogoku.

I mean, it is common sense. I keep seeing arguments like "Garganta is not space". Are you guys not at all familiar with how dimensions are supposed to work? I'd suggest gaining knowledge by getting into other verses where these concepts have been touched upon because this is disappointing.
 
I mean, it is common sense. I keep seeing arguments like "Garganta is not space". Are you guys not at all familiar with how dimensions are supposed to work? I'd suggest gaining knowledge by getting into other verses where these concepts have been touched upon because this is disappointing.
Click to expand...
Every verse has their own set of rules.
 
Damage3245 said:
Why would the sky be affected? We're not assuming the planets are zooming through space on an unconventional course.
Click to expand...
How is the living world being pulled toward the Soul Society if the stars and even The Sun aren't seen moving away or being affected, in even the smallest capacity?

Even if it was moving extremely slowly, there would be a noticeable change in environment if a planet were to be pulled away from its position In space.

We even see day-night transitions that aren't remotely affected by the events unfolding in the background.
 
Why would Earth and SS be hurtling through space? They are not in the same space. Even if they move in their own spaces they would never move towards each other because they are in separate dimensions. They are moving across dimensions, and the movement is being facilitated by another separate dimension, Kyogoku. They don't need to be moving in their own spaces to be pulled towards each other across dimensions by the Kyogoku.
Click to expand...
So you agree both are in Seperate dimension. So can you explain how planets gonna collide when they are inside seperate dimension.
Also I want to point out the valley of screams space was created inside Dangai not in boundary between two dimensions. There was no space distorted to just affect two planets.
 
Your argument literally assumes that WotL and SS are in the same space and are physically moving around the universe. No. That's not what is happening. You've got the details all wrong.

Response to the recent comment: please watch the movie. It is explained in that. The planets are connected together via Dangai. Plus they got connected together via a different dimension too which made Earth's town visible in SS's sky. Smh this is frustrating.
 
AKM sama said:
Your argument literally assumes that WotL and SS are in the same space and are physically moving around the universe. No. That's not what is happening. You've got the details all wrong.
Click to expand...
So these two separate structured spaces are being moved towards each other, and they're not being moved through space/ the universe since they exist in different spaces.

Either way, how would you move a planet sized dimension's space, without affecting the greater visual scope of stars, the sun, and outer space at all?

Like I said, at bare minimum, this dimension must contain visible outer space as well, for it to not be affected while the WotL is being moved around.

I have to disagree with these downgrades because the current logic of Senna's feat being planetary doesn't seem to make sense to me, like at all.
 
AKM sama said:
Your argument literally assumes that WotL and SS are in the same space and are physically moving around the universe. No. That's not what is happening. You've got the details all wrong.

Response to the recent comment: please watch the movie. It is explained in that. The planets are connected together via Dangai. Plus they got connected together via a different dimension too which made Earth's town visible in SS's sky. Smh this is frustrating.
Click to expand...
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
So you agree both are in Seperate dimension. So can you explain how planets gonna collide when they are inside seperate dimension.
Also I want to point out the valley of screams space was created inside Dangai not in boundary between two dimensions. There was no space distorted to just affect two planets.
Click to expand...
Please can you post a scan where it's stated both realms Boundary was distorted.
 
Axxtentacle said:
This is probably best left as a staff thread, since there's a lot of people just spamming the same counters, people who aren't even countering what AKM is saying because they don't understand it properly, etc.
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I still don't get it why this should move to staff thread. What's so difficult to understand both are different realms and Collison didn't had any effect on either of them. If it's Planet then they should have had some effect. Even senna pushing away did nothing to them.
 
You all can go for the compromise of “At least 5-B, possibly/likely 3-A to Low 2-C“

But I know many still won’t like that, but at this point, no new content in relation to this topic has been revealed at all and yet this is the 4th Major CRT talking about this exact topic... Like maybe just go for the compromise, or do this dance until once side eventually gives up

I dunno, I don’t read Bleach enough to say which interpretation is better, all I’m saying is this is the same back and forth as the first CRT
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
I still don't get it why this should move to staff thread. What's so difficult to understand both are different realms and Collison didn't had any effect on either of them. If it's Planet then they should have had some effect. Even senna pushing away did nothing to them.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about the points that are actually being discussed. There's a lot of people just coming in repeating things that aren't on topic that have to be told things like "this was already addressed in the OP" and etc. I am neutral on the CRT itself.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You all can go for the compromise of “At least 5-B, possibly/likely 3-A to Low 2-C“

But I know many still won’t like that, but at this point, no new content in relation to this topic has been revealed at all and yet this is the 4th Major CRT talking about this exact topic... Like maybe just go for the compromise, or do this dance until once side eventually gives up

I dunno, I don’t read Bleach enough to say with interpretation is better, all I’m saying is this is the same back and forth as the first CRT
Click to expand...
I have always been willing to grit my teeth and compromise with a possibly, even if I don't entirely agree with it. So count me in for that.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You all can go for the compromise of “At least 5-B, possibly/likely 3-A to Low 2-C“

But I know many still won’t like that, but at this point, no new content in relation to this topic has been revealed at all and yet this is the 4th Major CRT talking about this exact topic... Like maybe just go for the compromise, or do this dance until once side eventually gives up

I dunno, I don’t read Bleach enough to say which interpretation is better, all I’m saying is this is the same back and forth as the first CRT
Click to expand...
I would actually be fine with this compromise since arguing whether the realms are universes or planets is really just semantics and different interpretations. I think a at least 5b possibly 3a or likely 3a rating is fine.
 
At the moment I'm not in favor of the suggested compromise. Will wait to hear what others say though.
 
Axxtentacle said:
I'm not talking about the points that are actually being discussed. There's a lot of people just coming in repeating things that aren't on topic that have to be told things like "this was already addressed in the OP" and etc. I am neutral on the CRT itself.
Click to expand...
Pretty clear OP doesn't make sense.

1. Without destroying boundary between two dimensions/realms the planets can't collide.
2. Valley of screams was created inside Dangai to distort Dangai space not realms Boundary.
3. There was no affects of Collision or Senna pushing them on neither WOL nor SS.

This pretty much clears up misinterpretation.

I still don't get it whats there to understand. There is no way just planets were moved out of both realms and came back when senna pushed them. This doesn't even make sense
 
I unironically crafted this blog yesterday.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...YL3u8euvGj-qW55EM/edit#heading=h.dss1n3xxv1nw

World of the Living, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are planets. I don’t think this needs much elaboration. HOWEVER, they’re also realms (I’ll call them universes, for which I’ll drop an explanation later). The terms WotL, SS and HM are and can be used for both the planets and the universes. This is confirmed both visually in the manga and contextually through the CFYOW novel.
Click to expand...
As stated in CFYOW novel, Yhwach wanted to return the world to its original state. As we already confirmed, Soul King split the primordial world (aka the world in its original state) into 3 universes. Thereby, Yhwach wanting to uno reverse Soul King’s actions would mean he wants to destroy the universes and fuse them, as destroying the planets would accomplish nothing.
Click to expand...
 
Definitely not seeing any room for possibly or likely for the other assumption because the evidence for such is insufficient and based on higher assumptions without much backing. Not sure why it is even suggested when there are 6 staff currently in agreement with the proposal and 2 neutral with no disagreements. We don't do compromises just to make people happy. Accuracy is important above all. I'll quote myself once again:

1. There are many many instances where they explicitly refer to planets.
2. There are instances where we cannot determine for sure whether they are talking about the planets.
3. But there is not a single instance where they explicitly undeniably 100% refer to universes.

Even if we are going to analyze the usage on a case-by-case basis, then let's analyze the movie.

Does the movie refer to WotL and SS in context of the planets?
Yes. We have Kisuke's direct statement that SS is in a different dimension, a distinction between SS planet and the dimension in which it is, calling the planet as SS and not calling the dimension anything particular. We have a statement saying "town from the WotL" which implies Earth more than it implies universe. And lastly we have visuals of planets being pulled together and SS's sky showing an image of Earth.

Does the movie refer to WotL and SS as universes?
No, there is no instance of it.

With the context we have from the movie itself, that much is enough for Senna's feat to be treated as "pushing away two planets".

And like I said in the OP:
  • "But sekai can also mean universe. They don't have to be planets. They could be universes."
In this instance, with the context we have from everything discussed above, there is more than sufficient information to conclude that WotL and SS are referring to planets. And even if we did not have so much evidence, we would still have defaulted to the lower interpretation. Because the higher assumption needs explicit undeniable evidence, which doesn't exist.
 
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Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Pretty clear OP doesn't make sense.

1. Without destroying boundary between two dimensions/realms the planets can't collide.
2. Valley of screams was created inside Dangai to distort Dangai space not realms Boundary.
3. There was no affects of Collision or Senna pushing them on neither WOL nor SS.

This pretty much clears up misinterpretation.

I still don't get it whats there to understand. There is no way just planets were moved out of both realms and came back when senna pushed them. This doesn't even make sense
Click to expand...
You fail to understand: I am not saying the OP is correct, nor am I saying you are. I don't care either way. The thread, as most big bleach threads tend to be, isn't the most organized and there have been a lot of people doing what I said.
 
Axxtentacle said:
You fail to understand: I am not saying the OP is correct, nor am I saying you are. I don't care either way. The thread, as most big bleach threads tend to be, isn't the most organized and there have been a lot of people doing what I said.
Click to expand...
Sorry I thought you are agreeing with the thread.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You all can go for the compromise of “At least 5-B, possibly/likely 3-A to Low 2-C“

But I know many still won’t like that, but at this point, no new content in relation to this topic has been revealed at all and yet this is the 4th Major CRT talking about this exact topic... Like maybe just go for the compromise, or do this dance until once side eventually gives up

I dunno, I don’t read Bleach enough to say which interpretation is better, all I’m saying is this is the same back and forth as the first CRT
Click to expand...
this is actually the best, because in my comment at the start, I clearly made good points about realms size, and the relation between kishi and Reishi, truth to be told even If I act against bleach hypothetically, there are undoubtedly statements that support the realm being the universe, there are multiple, even if everyone magically accept they are planets, I think no one can deny the existence of them.
I don’t think is also correct ignore all the fandom on this wiki, just Because a couple of staff agree, we know bleach for years and there is a reason why it got upgraded to universal, dismiss everything to planets when the is a clear relation to the universe is just dumb in my opinion.

Even do I do not agree with the downgrade, I think this is the best solution.
 
Even though not related to the thread, since I believe this might be closed soon, just gonna say this to my fellow Bleach fans. The anime is coming back, more fans will come and hopefully more people will join wiki. More knowledge members will arise for Bleach and hopefully we can have a pretty accurate scaling for Bleach characters on the wiki.
Don't be disappointed with any revisions which might happen. Kubo said he might change some things on the anime and who knows what he will ( heck he might even change the cosmology ).
So even if some people's feelings may get hurt we have to keep our heads up cause we are on this wiki to have a great time ( unless it's a downgrade thread ). Cheers!
P.S : I disagree with the thread since it's a downgrade 😡
 
AKM sama said:
In this instance, with the context we have from everything discussed above, there is more than sufficient information to conclude that WotL and SS are referring to planets. And even if we did not have so much evidence, we would still have defaulted to the lower interpretation. Because the higher assumption needs explicit undeniable evidence, which doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Pretty clear OP doesn't make sense.

1. Without destroying boundary between two dimensions/realms the planets can't collide.
2. Valley of screams was created inside Dangai to distort Dangai space not realms Boundary.
3. There was no affects of Collision or Senna pushing them on neither WOL nor SS.

This pretty much clears up misinterpretation.

I still don't get it whats there to understand. There is no way just planets were moved out of both realms and came back when senna pushed them. This doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...
Sorry I still can't see any of your point making any sense.

Can you please post a scan where it's just opened a portal big enough to pull just the planets together. I still don't get what's the logic here you agree both are on Seperate dimension and again you say only planets were Colliding.
 
AKM sama said:
Definitely not seeing any room for possibly or likely for the other assumption because the evidence for such is insufficient and based on higher assumptions without much backing. Not sure why it is even suggested when there are 6 staff currently in agreement with the proposal and 2 neutral with no disagreements. We don't do compromises just to make people happy. Accuracy is important above all. I'll quote myself once again:

1. There are many many instances where they explicitly refer to planets.
2. There are instances where we cannot determine for sure whether they are talking about the planets.
3. But there is not a single instance where they explicitly undeniably 100% refer to universes.
Click to expand...
Aside from Kisuke's diagram representing them as dimensions, Rukia saying Hollows hide between SS and WotL, all the statements in TYBW of Yhwach wanting to destroy the realms where the Novels clarify he will destroy the boundaries between them (the dimensional walls), the simile of the worlds being likened to planets therefore they aren't actual planets in the context of the quote etc

There is plenty of evidence pointing to the WotL and SS being used to refer to the dimensions (which contain a universe) as well, you just refuse to hear it.
AKM sama said:
Even if we are going to analyze the usage on a case-by-case basis, then let's analyze the movie.

Does the movie refer to WotL and SS in context of the planets?
Yes. We have Kisuke's direct statement that SS is in a different dimension, a distinction between SS planet and the dimension in which it is, calling the planet as SS and not calling the dimension anything particular. We have a statement saying "town from the WotL" which implies Earth more than it implies universe. And lastly we have visuals of planets being pulled together and SS's sky showing an image of Earth.
Click to expand...
Lets assume the planets and only the planets are indeed the stuff being moved. How are they being pulled towards each other? Above you said that they are spatially separated while they are being moved but that means a dimension is being moved as the planet itself has no dimensional boundary. You said that there would be no change in the night sky but that doesn't work as if its just the planets being moved, the stars, moon etc would not be there in the sky.
AKM sama said:
Does the movie refer to WotL and SS as universes.
No, there is no instance of it.
Click to expand...
You're right. The movie never refers to the SS and WotL as universes but the manga and novels do refer to them as dimensions.
AKM sama said:
With the context we have from the movie itself, that much is enough for Senna's feat to be treated as "pushing away two planets".
Click to expand...
So Senna set off nukes on both planets with enough force to yeet them out of the Dangai?
AKM sama said:
And like I said in the OP:
  • "But sekai can also mean universe. They don't have to be planets. They could be universes."
In this instance, with the context we have from everything discussed above, there is more than sufficient information to conclude that WotL and SS are referring to planets. And even if we did not have so much evidence, we would still have defaulted to the lower interpretation. Because the higher assumption needs explicit undeniable evidence, which doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Once again, they CAN refer to the planets. Context of SS and WotL being on a collision course with each other and how everything that surrounds those planets not changing tells us that its not the planets but the dimensions that are being moved. The Valley making contact with the wall of the dimensions is what is connected them. The night sky doesn't change for either world which means that more than just the planets were being moved.
 
I am disagreeing with the thread. Because it doesn't even make sense. I still not seen a scan which shows there was a hole in dimension so that only planets can move and collide. This is just false assumption.
 
I just want to say this before i make my response the kisuke never said the Soul society and the wol are in different dimensions. If you listen carefully he never even says kukkan (空間)at all. When he talks about vos and dangai being dimensions he clear says kukkan. Other translations of the movie i seen don't say their in a different dimension either
 
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