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Senna's Feat 2 (ft. Bleach Cosmology)

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DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You all can go for the compromise of “At least 5-B, possibly/likely 3-A to Low 2-C“

But I know many still won’t like that, but at this point, no new content in relation to this topic has been revealed at all and yet this is the 4th Major CRT talking about this exact topic... Like maybe just go for the compromise, or do this dance until once side eventually gives up

I dunno, I don’t read Bleach enough to say which interpretation is better, all I’m saying is this is the same back and forth as the first CRT
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Ye
 
Compromising is not a good action to take. It’s pretty much the roundabout way for something that’s not accurate to be accurate
 
Some of these arguments don't make sense.The sphere's on myuirs maps are not planets whatsoever. The valley of screams dimension is shown in the middle of the map pulling in ss and the wol. The soul society and the World of the living are shown much bigger than the dimension and this dimension has sun in it making it at least large star. Here the narrator also says the valley of screams has non-artificial light which means it has to be star in their. That being said it makes no sense for the ss and wol to be planets.


The original universe was "All of creation" in one dimension which the soul king split up into 3 dimensions the soul society the world of the living and heuco mundo. Further more yhwachs remains are stated to keep all of creation in check here. Ichibei is saying it does not matter who rules the bottom worlds as long as they have a linchpin pin to maintain all of creation. This also back by kubos end chapter sketches.


End chapter sketches show yhwach destroying the universe creating his own universe of despair. Here

The original universe was all of creation it was a chaotic world with not concept of life or death. The is same universe was split into the 3 Worlds soul society,HM and the world of the living. So all of creation= the current worlds. The term all of creation means everything in existence or the universe.

Just cause they say world doesn't mean their planets world is term that can mean many things even universe it depends on the context




The senkimon is stated to connect to different dimension.

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異次元世界に繋がる「跳躍門」は、世界各地の行き来を盛霊に可能にする超便利な霊具

"The "Senkaimon" that connects to a different dimensional world is a super-convenient spiritual tool that allows you to travel around the world."


Which is the soul society.


Akm's arguments about the gargnata being a overlapping dimension between 3 planets Literally makes no sense. This is not stated or implied anywhere. The manga states the gargnata and the dangai are between the world of the living and soul society like 10×.


Last thing I want to say is it does not say the soul society and the world of the living are in different dimensions. Kisuke doesn't say kukkan which means dimension at all.


Around 1:10
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
A really good point about explosion was braught up in context of Senna's feat.
If its the planets being pulled...inside Dangai...and an explosion reversed their attraction....how come the explosion went unnoticed by Earth let alone did not damage it??
Click to expand...
Good point. I feel like this should be addressed
 
AKM sama said:
Seems like an argument from incredulity. That's the only thing we know. The world existed. SK then separated the SS planet (reishi world) and Hueco Mundo (sand paradise) from it. It resulted in three worlds. Earth, SS and Hueco Mundo (all planets). Nothing about creation of the entire cosmos or anything like that.
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You can’t take a rocket, leave orbit, and travel to the Soul Society’s afterlife.
 
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The 3 realms are a split of "all of creation" which means the universe. So the soul king did not make 3 planets. He made dimensions.
 
Axxtentacle said:
This is probably best left as a staff thread, since there's a lot of people just spamming the same counters, people who aren't even countering what AKM is saying because they don't understand it properly, etc.
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I partially agree with you. A major chunk of this thread is dedicated to me answering questions that are born out of lack of understanding, explaining stuff that should be common sense that has nothing to do with the points in the OP.

I can see the same questions are being asked by majority of the new users who have less than 100-200 comments, while the older members who can understand the concept have no problems with it.

While a staff thread is okay, I want to make the guys understand why something is the case, because otherwise they'll continue to say "the reasons didn't make sense to me hence they are wrong the staff are dumb", which will make them look dumb.

That's not to say I am not disappointed with a lot of arguments that should be common logic in the debating community. But I think I can attempt to give a simple and easy to understand explanation that will hopefully clear some of the basic doubts. I will get into it shortly.
 
Honestly can't really go through all the agurment here but I am neutral. From what I have read, soul society and living world are inside different Dimensions. From the scan above about all of creation, the WOL and SS being those dimensions seems very legit
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
And what is the dimension called??
Soul Society....go figure
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Actually, the OP's claim is that the term "Soul Society" almost always (and often, very explicitly) refers to just the planet where all the Shinigami live rather than the broader dimension within which that Planet is located
 
RoyGundam said:
Actually, the OP's claim is that the term "Soul Society" almost always (and often, very explicitly) refers to just the planet where all the Shinigami live rather than the broader dimension within which that Planet is located
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I know.
That is what I disagree with regarding OP.
It all depends on context of situation whether 1)Soul Society(Universe) is concerned
OR
2)Soul Society(Planet) is concerned.

I disagree with pushing this hard and fast rule that it always refers to planet. Nuance is important , I'd rather not have that get lost.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
It all depends on context of situation whether 1)Soul Society(Universe) is concerned
OR
2)Soul Society(Planet) is concerned.
Click to expand...
Why don't you enumerate all the instances of context (1)? i.e. examples where the term "Soul Society" could refer to the dimension at large

So far, the only somewhat credible example of that context being used is the novel statement talking about "if the WoTL and SS could be likened to planets"
 
I'd like to know if there is some major difference between the movie translations, because by the looks of it, the first scan is Toshiro making an example. From what I'm seeing, he's saying that SS and WotL being connected is just as weird as two planets being connected.

I also don't know which of the translations is more accurate.
8260832-screenshot_2021-11-26-09-56-47-320_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
8260831-screenshot_2021-11-26-09-56-56-316_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
 
I fully agree with the revisions/downgrades proposed in the OP by @AKM sama.

Nothing in the context of the entire Bleach metaseries involves anything further than the Earth and the immediate space/"spaces" around it. We have literally never seen a Bleach plot where the "world of the living" and the "soul society" extended much further than the Earth (the former) and some spiritual dimension that "doubles" earth (the latter).

It would be okay to rank Bleach as cosmic or universal if the shinigami had branches that operated in other
life-bearing planets in outer space, those planets presumably being encompassed by the "world of the living", but that never actually happens.

We're essentially giving Bleach cosmic ratings for messing with structures that might as well be the size of a few islands narrative-wise, and I don't think that should have ever flown here to begin with.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
A really good point about explosion was braught up in context of Senna's feat.
If its the planets being pulled...inside Dangai...and an explosion reversed their attraction....how come the explosion went unnoticed by Earth let alone did not damage it??
Click to expand...
I will explain this but first let's apply your logic to your assumption and see how both of those are contradictory scenarios which cannot co-exist.

For a second, let us assume two universes were being pulled together and Senna's explosions caused them to reverse their direction. Okay?

For such an explosion that literally changes the course of the universe in mere seconds, the impact would be so great that multiple galaxies would have been destroyed on the spot. Not only that, the entire universe would shake. A side effect of such a process would result in tremors across the universes. That means tremors on every planet, every star, every galaxy, including Earth and SS planet. And not just baby tremors like normal earthquakes. Life-wiping destruction like the one that wiped away the dinosaurs, if not a clear cut destruction of the planet itself.

Does that happen in the movie? No. So your argument arises from an incorrect understanding of the events.

Let's understand the event correctly then.

Is the Earth and SS planet connected together through the Kyogoku?

Yes, you can literally enter Kyogoku dimension from Earth and we see Earth in SS's sky. The dimension connects the two.

Then why is the dimension not visible?

Because it is literally another dimension.

If Earth is being pulled then why isn't it hurtling through space?

Because Earth is not moving in that space. Earth and SS are dimensionally separate and they are moving across dimensions. Their movement being facilitated by another dimension called Kyogoku.

For example, in a XYZ plane, if you have a point at the coordinates (3,4,1) and it is moved along the z axis to (3,4,5), did it move in the xy plane? No. As far as the xy plane is concerned, it did not move. It moved only across the z axis. The same logic follows when we talk about moving across dimensions. Earth moving across another pocket dimension =/= Earth moving in the main universe.

Then why isn't the explosion is seen in space? Why didn't Earth get flung into space by that explosion?

Because the explosion only happened in Kyogoku and Dangai. Why would it be visible on Earth? Why would Earth get flung into space when the explosion didn't occur in the main universe? This isn't hard to understand. Alternatively you could also make an argument that the worlds returned to their stable positions by themselves as soon as Kyogoku was completely destroyed, because it's a law of nature that if no force is being applied, things always tend to go to a stable state of existence.

If you still don't understand how dimensions are supposed to work, I don't think I can explain it better atm. Maybe @DontTalkDT can enlighten you on that. But from what I can see, there is a clear lack of understanding on how pocket dimensions work, that is the source of all these weird comments that are mostly coming from new members with only 10-200 comments.
 
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Reio35 said:
The 3 realms are a split of "all of creation" which means the universe.
Click to expand...
"All of creation" is never once used to refer to WotL or SS. In your statement, it is used generally. I never denied the existence of a universe. The statement is only saying that there was no life and death distinction in the world. That's all.

RoyGundam said:
This is something everyone disagreeing to the OP could do actually
Click to expand...
And this. I have already stated that there exists no statement that explicitly undeniably uses the terms WotL and SS to refer to universes. And so far nobody has provided any such statement either. I have gone so far as to say that even if such a case existed, then that only means we have to check it on a case-by-case basis, doing so in the context of the movie (which I have done in the OP), is more than sufficient to get my original proposal across.
 
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Malomtek said:
I fully agree with the revisions/downgrades proposed in the OP by @AKM sama.

Nothing in the context of the entire Bleach metaseries involves anything further than the Earth and the immediate space/"spaces" around it. We have literally never seen a Bleach plot where the "world of the living" and the "soul society" extended much further than the Earth (the former) and some spiritual dimension that "doubles" earth (the latter).

It would be okay to rank Bleach as cosmic or universal if the shinigami had branches that operated in other
life-bearing planets in outer space, those planets presumably being encompassed by the "world of the living", but that never actually happens.

We're essentially giving Bleach cosmic ratings for messing with structures that might as well be the size of a few islands narrative-wise, and I don't think that should have ever flown here to begin with.
Click to expand...
Judging by the last thread you made, your opinions have lost a substantial value.
 
Malomtek said:
I fully agree with the revisions/downgrades proposed in the OP by @AKM sama.

Nothing in the context of the entire Bleach metaseries involves anything further than the Earth and the immediate space/"spaces" around it. We have literally never seen a Bleach plot where the "world of the living" and the "soul society" extended much further than the Earth (the former) and some spiritual dimension that "doubles" earth (the latter).
Click to expand...
Why are you comparing bleach to other verses. So according to you every verse gets universal rating if they have some sort of life on other planets. First of all I still don't get it even though it's clearly stated all three realms are seperate plane of existance. What is hard to understand plane and planets have different meanings.

Still no one shown a scan where where both Worlds getting affected by senna feat. Neither of the WOL or SS had any side effects. Its clearly shows this OP is just made out of assumption.

It would be okay to rank Bleach as cosmic or universal if the shinigami had branches that operated in other
life-bearing planets in outer space, those planets presumably being encompassed by the "world of the living", but that never actually happens.

We're essentially giving Bleach cosmic ratings for messing with structures that might as well be the size of a few islands narrative-wise, and I don't think that should have ever flown here to begin with.
Click to expand...
Have you really read Bleach. Gremmy literally created Outer space in manga we can clearly see the galaxies and in Novels it's clearly stated as he created it in an instant.

At this point I still don't know what's to discuss.

Again Valley of screams is created to distort Dangai not boundary of both WOL and SS. Also we clearly did not see any side effects. This OP is just assumption which lacks evidence.

If there is a scan where both WOL and SS getting affected by Collison please post it we can see that.
 
AKM sama said:
"All of creation" is never once mentioned anywhere. "Sekai" is what is mentioned. And both can be used synonymously. So no, it doesn't necessarily refer to the universe since the scope of sekai can be limited and we have many examples where sekai is used for Earth, SS and the system of those two planets. And even the phrase "all of creation" can be used in a limited scope when it is only talking about life and death. Since "all of creation" or "world" in the context of Bleach often only refers to life (Earth), death (Soul Society), and Hueco Mundo, because those are the things that were created and are part of the Reio's system of worlds.



And this. I have already stated that there exists no statement that explicitly undeniably uses the terms WotL and SS to refer to universes. And so far nobody has provided any such statement either. I have gone so far as to say that even if such a case existed, then that only means we have to check it on a case-by-case basis, doing so in the context of the movie (which I have done in the OP), is more than sufficient to get my original proposal across.
Click to expand...

AKM sama said:
"All of creation" is never once mentioned anywhere. "Sekai" is what is mentioned. And both can be used synonymously. So no, it doesn't necessarily refer to the universe since the scope of sekai can be limited and we have many examples where sekai is used for Earth, SS and the system of those two planets. And even the phrase "all of creation" can be used in a limited scope when it is only talking about life and death. Since "all of creation" or "world" in the context of Bleach often only refers to life (Earth), death (Soul Society), and Hueco Mundo, because those are the things that were created and are part of the Reio's system of worlds.
Click to expand...
"All of creation" is mentioned here
2021_11_25_16.05.25.jpg

Also here
2021_11_25_16.02.02.jpg

The kanji for all of creation is" 全宇宙" which only means universe or "all of creation"not to be confused with sekai which can mean world or universe.

AKM sama said:
And this. I have already stated that there exists no statement that explicitly undeniably uses the terms WotL and SS to refer to universes. And so far nobody has provided any such statement either. I have gone so far as to say that even if such a case existed, then that only means we have to check it on a case-by-case basis, doing so in the context of the movie (which I have done in the OP), is more than sufficient to get my original proposal across.
Click to expand...
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
So everyone is set on downgrading Bleach without any reason. This is hilarious 😂. Well can't be helped bleach gets hate for no reason everywhere.
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Verses get upgraded and downgraded all the time. No need to think it’s so personal. I personally don’t agree with the downgrade but I also know I’m not as knowledgeable as some members on Bleach which is why I’m ok with a compromise until some of the more knowledgeable members give their input

Given AKM talked with Cyber and I believe Arc beforehand, it just might be that tier 5 Bleach is more reasonable than tier 3 for the time being. With the new Hell Arc coming it could very well solidify tier 3 Bleach
 
BleachHollow said:
Thread 'Why Bleach is not universal or "cosmic" in any way: simple edition' https://vsbattles.com/threads/why-b...l-or-cosmic-in-any-way-simple-edition.128042/

This thread also held some pretty funny words to how we have scaled Bleach characters and i just think it shows that he isn't very knowledgeable on Bleach. Imo i can be wrong but i just expressed what i think. Sorry if i offended anyone.
Click to expand...
As far as I can see who ever agreed with this OP pretty much have no knowledge on Bleach.

At this point it's just one sided push without any meaning.
 
BleachHollow said:
Gotcha, will make sure to express my self better on the next revision threads.
Click to expand...
Thank you, if your gonna take jabs at someone at least make them clearly non-serious, tone is always important when writing anything, and if your going to say something like that to someone make it clear why in a way that isn't too aggressive. There's a fine line, something I myself semi-often slip off of, so you ain't alone there!
 
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