SCP-3812 Profile Is Outdated

[MattSatire]

Hello, I would like to change a few things in the SCP-3812 profile and maybe add some abilities because it is outdated.

Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 Or 2,3

Since there is no conceptual type in the profile, I guess it has also been a while since I remembered why there is no conceptual type in the profile?

I honestly don't want to bring up this pathetic scan but I say I have to because it's the most logical reason so SCP-3812 encounters SCP-5800 who is in conceptual space, I think it's possible that if he gets Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 considering he's previous Feats he erase fundamental concepts and human conceptions, which these human conceptions build reality as well because whatever is conceptualized will go into the noosphere and the noosphere will manifest it into physical reality and SCP-3812 transcends it or shall we just say since SCP-3812 is in conceptual space then he independently forms physical reality?

Spoiler

all point to the idea that as recently as the 1980’s there was a concept, potentially even something as fundamental as an emotion, that no longer exists. An entire concept, wiped clean from reality and the collective consciousness of all sentient beings, just like you’d wipe a bug off of your windshield

Accausslity Type 5
I think SCP-3812 deserves Accausslity Type 5 too because it transcends physical reality that contain casuality system

Nonexistent Physiology Type 2 ¿?

I found this 2 weeks ago in the SCP-682 termination log, I waited because it could have been deleted, but it is still there.

SCP-682: For a moment, I could feel all things, those that exist, those that don't exist, and those that transcend the need to exist. I looked down, up, but I couldn't see anything, nothing but me, and nothing but him. Because of me, all the stories were over. He and I had broken every rule that was laid down for all things, overcome all the potestates that govern this world. And then, he looked at me, and said only one thing: pain. And he left. You were no longer alive, but you weren't dead, since reality fell into shadows that go beyond the darkness itself. I almost felt that the termination had finally arrived, but unfortunately for you, I had already won from the beginning.

So SCP-682 state SCP-3812 neither exist and non exist he is transcend to be exist? So i think it should be NEP2 right because he neither two of them

1. Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Nonduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

What Do You Think?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Sir_Ovens

 

[MattSatire]

I forgot to mention this "When interviewed, SCP-682 responded, in a fearful tone" He scared to SCP-3812 also there is secret text about pain im sure that the meaning of "Pain" SCP-3812 saying before he left SCP-682

PAIN, THIS IS WHAT I AM, THIS IS WHAT I WILL BRING.

 

[MattSatire]

Bump

 

[MattSatire]

Bump

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

SCP-3812's actual conceptual manipulation feats seem to be limited to a single universe. So they wouldn't be noospheric concepts, most likely. And like I said, this "feat" doesn't actually indicate if 3812 did anything to 5800. Too vague, and recent entries in that log have failed to live up to the entire central concept of the page (that is, two anomalies countering each other). I think the concept manip should just be Type 2 for now.

I don't think we grant Type 5 Acausality based on such little evidence anymore. It'd be at least Type 4 I suppose.

The 682 log is cringe. But other than that idk if it's NEP. Could just be referring to stories, as those don't really exist from a certain point of view. It could also be Transduality of some kind. But really it's too vague to do much about it. As it turns, individual logs in collaborative projects that try to be all fancy and vague and poetic don't do much for us.

 

[MattSatire]

SCP-3812's actual conceptual manipulation feats seem to be limited to a single universe. So they wouldn't be noospheric concepts, most likely. And like I said, this "feat" doesn't actually indicate if 3812 did anything to 5800. Too vague, and recent entries in that log have failed to live up to the entire central concept of the page (that is, two anomalies countering each other). I think the concept manip should just be Type 2 for now.

I don't think we grant Type 5 Acausality based on such little evidence anymore. It'd be at least Type 4 I suppose.

The 682 log is cringe. But other than that idk if it's NEP. Could just be referring to stories, as those don't really exist from a certain point of view. It could also be Transduality of some kind. But really it's too vague to do much about it. As it turns, individual logs in collaborative projects that try to be all fancy and vague and poetic don't do much for us.

Limited hmm any eveidence you'd say that? I don't want to scale with 5800 but conceptual space it's full of human conception that SCP-3812 capable of control, he also have feats for that and i think it's should work

Okay let me give a scan for that SCP-3812 he transcend narrative law that ben made of it's should be included casuality law and he literally transcend anything in physical reality that make him outside ben influence and ben seems can interacted with him

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

Though the character is completely independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond its feats. While true acausality such that one is completely unbounded by and independent from cause and effect in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove, lesser forms of the idea appear often in fiction.

Note: Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

Yeah it's a bit cringe but regardless that mostly ability that SCP-682 has, is on termination log, it's really make sense feats to give him a nep2 that literally scan say he's neither of two exists and don't exist, give me any reasonable reason to doubt that

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Because all of 3812's changes have been localized to the Foundation's home universe and, by definitions of how 3812 works, it can't have affected things beyond its current narrative level. Modifying concepts that would affect all realities just isn't something it can realistically do. And so scaling to our EU 5800 just isn't a thing that it can do unless we accept it eventually ascended to its level. But again, how 3812 interacted with 5800 is too vague to try and argue that imo.

"It should include Causality"

Literally goes against what our page says, which says we shouldn't assume that causality is included as part of space, time and laws of the universe. Our big tiershitty things like the Noosphere and Patasphere do explicitly include causality in their domain, but 3812's narratives do not. So even though it's really stupid and the CRT that changed that shouldn't have happened, we can't apply Type 5 Acausality here.

The Termination log doesn't say that. It says that 682 can FEEL existent things and nonexistent things. But that doesn't make either of them nonexistent, just that they can see and possibly interact with those things. It's on a greater level of existence so it can see everything, but that doesn't mean it IS these things. 3812 only ascends narrative layers after all, it doesn't become part of everything or anything. Definitively not enough for NEP in my opinion.

 

[MattSatire]

Wh at About This Termination
The fact that the one who wrote the narrative of the cactusverse was not even ben I think it refers to swann and right after the attempted termination of SCP-682 by SCP-3812 it is shown that SCP-5800 is just a grain of dust to SCP-682 seems to say that 3812 is more than that?

Termination Test Record: The following record was recovered by the Foundation from among the last remaining data from the [SITE NOT FOUND] server before it was mysteriously removed from the structure of baseline reality. The facility housed SCP-682's former containment unit, with the anomaly being the only entity remaining after the perimeter's collapse. The exact cause of [SITE NOT FOUND] destruction is unknown and is still under investigation. SCP-682 has been safely transferred to Site-19 and is currently under provisional containment.

Spoiler: Spoiler

<BEGIN LOG>

SCP-682: (Laughs.) You fool, I know very well why you came here. It's not just because of me, I know you perfectly and I know what you want.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: Do you really think you can consume me? Do you think your "seventh empire" will be able to conquer me? I pity you.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: (Laughs.) My patriarch? Do you really think you're going to deceive me? I have no patriarch, I have no leader. I am my own crown, my own god, and you are nothing but thorny and rotten roots, which I would simply shatter it like paper. You have no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea how this narrative works, and you still say you can change it entirely.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: I know this narrative and whoever tells and writes it, from the beginning to the end. I know very well what will happen, and certainly you simply won't be there to know, as I would have already claimed it, including your empire.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: It's still pitiful to know how foolish you are. The fifth kingdom will be nothing but dust to me, and whatever the entropy will do, it will be nothing more than a spark next to the pain I will ignite this disgusting story and the other ones beyond it. Normalcy and abnormality, works of the gods, which I myself will purge, just like them.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: Do you really think the gods are really that dominant? They are nothing more than flawed, mortal souls, which to those here in this story seem like the purest power, but I see them, and I see that above them, and I guarantee that they are just leaves in the wind. They think they are creating rules that will keep them safe from conviction. Pff, they are as ignorant as you.

[DATA LOST]: [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST] [DATA LOST]

SCP-682: You cause me more pity than actual pain. Do you really think you can destroy me? I've seen it all. Now I will take you and your empire down, and you will never be able to rise again until I give you permission. Goodbye.

<END LOG

---

Shortly after the destruction of [SITE NOT FOUND], the Department of Analytics detected a series of phenomena occurring in print and digital media, consisting of the frequent discussion of non-existent works of fiction. These phenomena were deeply investigated and were concluded to have anomalous properties, later being cataloged as SCP-2747. No direct or indirect relationship between SCP-682, SCP-2747 and what occurred at [SITE NOT FOUND] has been confirmed, even more so as the clear nature of the recording above is still debated.

 

[MattSatire]

The Termination log doesn't say that. It says that 682 can FEEL existent things and nonexistent things. But that doesn't make either of them nonexistent, just that they can see and possibly interact with those things. It's on a greater level of existence so it can see everything, but that doesn't mean it IS these things. 3812 only ascends narrative layers after all, it doesn't become part of everything or anything. Definitively not enough for NEP in my opinion.

I disagree with that, SCP-3812 brings SCP-682 into exist and non exist situations and SCP-3812 transcends, there is no contradiction here why not qualify? Just focuse on these feats seems like you are leading to something else.

I will bring the full termination attempt log

Spoiler: SCP-3812 Encounter With SCP-682

SCP-682 was safely escorted to SCP-3812's containment zone in the South Pacific Ocean, without any attempt to break containment or assault Foundation personnel throughout the process.

SCP-682, at 4:49 am, was released into the water by a special Foundation marine transport vehicle, approximately 7 miles from the vertical point of SCP-3812. SCP-682 swam to SCP-3812, and arrived approximately 80 meters away from the anomaly at 5:03 am.

Both anomalies did not perform any interaction, remaining static until 5:38 am. At that moment, both SCP-682 and SCP-3812 suddenly disappeared. Subjects were not detected. By 6:27 a.m., multiple deepwell servers and ontokinetic activity monitoring devices detected the occurrence of a series of CK-Class Reality Restructuring Events, however, no notable change in reality structure was reported by any individual in baseline reality.

At 11:20 am, all deepwell servers in the Foundation's possession recorded a ZK-Class Reality Failure Event, and 4 minutes later, they were mysteriously disabled. At 11:31 am, Site-01's main server was brought back up and logged a CK-Class Restructuring Event. SCP-682 manifested in its containment chamber at the same time, but SCP-3812 did not return to its original location.

Spoiler: After Encounter

When interviewed, SCP-682 responded, in a fearful tone, as follows:

SCP-682: For a moment, I could feel all things, those that exist, those that don't exist, and those that transcend the need to exist. I looked down, up, but I couldn't see anything, nothing but me, and nothing but him. Because of me, all the stories were over. He and I had broken every rule that was laid down for all things, overcome all the potestates that govern this world. And then, he looked at me, and said only one thing: pain. And he left. You were no longer alive, but you weren't dead, since reality fell into shadows that go beyond the darkness itself. I almost felt that the termination had finally arrived, but unfortunately for you, I had already won from the beginning.

In-depth investigations into what happened to Foundation servers are ongoing. SCP-3812 remains undetected. SCP-682, after the interview, remained static and unresponsive for four months, making absolutely no attempt to break containment and communication. Further research led to the information that SCP-682's Hume level couldn't be measured by any Kant counter and other means of reality counting. The clear reason why this occurred is still unknown, but it is theorized that the anomaly's pataphysical ontology became similar to that of SCP-3812, although no other type of narrakinetic and ontokinetic properties were noted.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"SCP-3812 brings SCP-682 into exist and non exist situations and SCP-3812 transcends"

None of what you posted supports this. We know 682 was presented to 3812. Weird shit happened, they both vanished temporarily. Then 682 came back and said the above quote. To me it just seems like 682 adapted to 3812's level, seeing the totality of existence (including nonexistent stuff) due to this. At no point did this have to include 3812 actually being nonexistent. Just that he witnessed such things. Remember that 3812 is just a dude who ascends levels of reality. He doesn't have to be a weird abstract nonexistent thing just because he ascended to a higher level. And even assuming he traveled through such nonexistent places doesn't mean he was, actually, nonexistent himself. Especially given his potent reality warping.

Regarding the other termination log, I'd say that it's just dumbass crap meant to make 682 look impressive without rhyme or reason. 3812 cannot be both below 5800 (as implied by the Keter Duty log) and way above 5800 (as implied by 682's termination) log. I'm honestly tempted to just, ignore all that stuff entirely unless they can paint a picture of 3812 that's consistent. We can't give 3812 an EU key (which is what all of this stuff would be included in) if there is no consistent portrayal of 3812 in it.

But even that asides, it's just 682 boasting real hard. He just includes 3812 and 58oo in said boasting, not necessarily implying they're comparable.

 

[MattSatire]

"SCP-3812 brings SCP-682 into exist and non exist situations and SCP-3812 transcends"

None of what you posted supports this. We know 682 was presented to 3812. Weird shit happened, they both vanished temporarily. Then 682 came back and said the above quote. To me it just seems like 682 adapted to 3812's level, seeing the totality of existence (including nonexistent stuff) due to this. At no point did this have to include 3812 actually being nonexistent. Just that he witnessed such things. Remember that 3812 is just a dude who ascends levels of reality. He doesn't have to be a weird abstract nonexistent thing just because he ascended to a higher level. And even assuming he traveled through such nonexistent places doesn't mean he was, actually, nonexistent himself. Especially given his potent reality warping.

Regarding the other termination log, I'd say that it's just dumbass crap meant to make 682 look impressive without rhyme or reason. 3812 cannot be both below 5800 (as implied by the Keter Duty log) and way above 5800 (as implied by 682's termination) log. I'm honestly tempted to just, ignore all that stuff entirely unless they can paint a picture of 3812 that's consistent. We can't give 3812 an EU key (which is what all of this stuff would be included in) if there is no consistent portrayal of 3812 in it.

But even that asides, it's just 682 boasting real hard. He just includes 3812 and 58oo in said boasting, not necessarily implying they're comparable.

bruh it's like you say this is not canon for current cosmology

 

[MattSatire]

Don't we consider termination log a canon story even most of the SCP-682 profile is made from it, it seems like you insist on saying that this is not canon because it is different from keter duty pretty unfair Ngl

 

[MattSatire]

I don't know what the big different narrative what you say, i want to ask you something in SCP-6747 article, SCP-3812 got mentioned in adendum VII he's ontokinesis-bearer that can manipulate other reality-spaces also can alter baseline reality but why it's SCP-3812? if the narrative itself is very different

Spoiler: Why

Dir. PHMD: Afraid not; not even rituals as powerful as the Kodex would do it. Thaumaturgy operates locally within a specified reality bubble.

<Asheworth exhales, scratching his head. He scrolls through some of the papers present near the two personnel.>

Dir. Asheworth: Ontokinetics, then, I suppose? A sufficiently powerful reality bender could theoretically forever stall the progress of the —

<PHMD sighs sadly.>

Dir. PHMD: Yes and no; the main problem here is that we know exactly of one general ontokinesis-bearer that can manipulate other reality-spaces.

<Asheworth raises his eyebrow.>

Dir. Asheworth: That, being…?

Dir. PHMD: SCP-3812.

Dir. Asheworth: …Shit.

Dir. Asheworth: <sighs, tapping on the desk for a few moments> How about total reality alteration then? I'm sure -17 has things that could alter layers of baseline to protect us for as long as they work.

<Vemhoff leans toward the two, visibly angry.>

Dir. Vemhoff: You… <sigh> It seems you've not learned a single thing, have you? If you can't be made to understand that manipulating the very structures of reality is not a joke, then we're doomed.

Dir. PHMD: What was that?

<Vemhoff scoffs.>

Dir. Vemhoff: You are all insane, yet again —

Dir. PHMD: No, the other part.

<Vemhoff raises his eyebrow.>

Dir. Vemhoff: It's not a joke to make such drastic changes to our goddamn reality!

Dir. PHMD: You're right, it's not…

<PHMD begins to interact with his worktablet, accessing relevant documents and beginning to sketch a diagram.>

Dir. PHMD: …but what if it were?

 

[MattSatire]

You'd can say SCP-682 is boasting really hard, but SCP-682 statement is reliable actually he'd say in serious tone

 

[deonment]

I found this 2 weeks ago in the SCP-682 termination log, I waited because it could have been deleted, but it is still there.

That isn't good enough proof for such given the last pruning of the page occurred before this

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Can you not quadruple post.

Also I'm saying that no sources overall agree on 3812's scope in EU. People just throw 3812 against whatever and whoever with no actual attempt to make a coherent depiction of 3812's place in non-Kaktusverse cosmologies. We have shit like 3812 being contained by 5800, 2747 and Swann at the same time despite all of those things being nowhere near comparable in power (5800 is either far below or far above narratives, no in-between. 2747 is either way above Swann or way below it, again no in-between). Making a EU key for 3812, that is, for anything outside of Kaktusverse, would require one coherent vision of 3812 that just doesn't exist right now (outside of the generally accepted notion that 3812 doesn't scale to Metafoundation narratives).

As a result, I honestly really think that 3812 should not have an EU key. If y'all can't behave around the funny ascending dude you're not getting funny tiers.

 

[MattSatire]

Can you not quadruple post.

Also I'm saying that no sources overall agree on 3812's scope in EU. People just throw 3812 against whatever and whoever with no actual attempt to make a coherent depiction of 3812's place in non-Kaktusverse cosmologies. We have shit like 3812 being contained by 5800, 2747 and Swann at the same time despite all of those things being nowhere near comparable in power (5800 is either far below or far above narratives, no in-between. 2747 is either way above Swann or way below it, again no in-between). Making a EU key for 3812, that is, for anything outside of Kaktusverse, would require one coherent vision of 3812 that just doesn't exist right now (outside of the generally accepted notion that 3812 doesn't scale to Metafoundation narratives).

As a result, I honestly really think that 3812 should not have an EU key. If y'all can't behave around the funny ascending dude you're not getting funny tiers.

That's technically like impossible lol, someone make antother version of 3812

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I have no idea what you're trying to say with that sentence. It is absolutely not impossible to keep our 3812 profile Kaktusverse only. We aren't getting a coherent depiction of the character from several disparate logs in random collaborative pages, and 3812 isn't featured heavily enough in other canons to have a key for these incarnations.

 

[MattSatire]

Aight fine I'll wait until that happen Instead of prolonging this, let's discuss the 3812 profile update again, okay, I agree with you for now so

1.Accausality Type 4
2.Conceptual Manipulation Type 2
3.I think we need to add Non Physical Interaction?

I want to add some scans too to make it easier to find evidence for his ability

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I don't think NPI is needed? 3812 does everything with reality warping, it doesn't need NPI to be able to interact with abstract things (and iirc he never did physically interact with anything intangible on his own).

Otherwise, this is probably fine.

 

[MattSatire]

Plot Manipulation

An entity or force with access to higher energy metaphysical dimensions would perceive our reality similarly to how we perceive the reality of characters in a comic book

Multi Location

Ben said that SCP-3812 exists in all realities simultaneously

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Sure.

Maaaybe for Multi-location? It's a bit weird, because 3812 more so exists in multiple planes of existence at once. But sure, I guess.