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Upgrade H1-A SCP-3812?

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MattSatire said:
I was looking at the project issorpia about a month ago, and there I see SCP-5800 interacted with SCP-3812, even though it was considered a child by 5800, but this would count as an feats because it indicates 3812 can be in the noosphere.

So what do you think?

Agree:
Disagree:
Click to expand...
This is very vague and tells us nothing about 3812's influence over the Noosphere, if any.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
This is very vague and tells us nothing about 3812's influence over the Noosphere, if any.
Click to expand...

With his abilities, he will transcend the noosphere in any way, this is not nlf because he is doing this in physical reality as well due to his nature.
 
I apologize, I should have explained first how 3812 can get H1-A I was a little hasty making this thread, I will make a reason why he will get H1-A

First Ben says "I wanted to create something that, by definition, superseded everything that superseded it. I wanted to see how many layers there are, if the stack of narratives really do go on forever upward. The mistake I made was when I didn’t realize that by making Him supersede everything that supersedes Him, He’s also superseding himself"

And SCP-3812 can surpasses the narrative infinite times, "It is unlikely that we will ever know anything about the being or beings that supersede us (if they even exist), not in any tangible way, let alone any being that would supersede them. It may very well be that we are just one of an infinite number of realities, stacked on top of each other in every direction, influencing those below us and being influenced by those above us. This echelon, upon which sits ourselves and everything that ever was or will be, would likely be the most fundamental aspect of the organization of creation. The very foundation of all things"

I hereby conclude that SCP-3812 will surpass the noosphere sooner or later. I think this is quite a reasonable reason because he also does the same thing in physical reality and I have also shown that he can be in the noosphere so he will surpass noosphere too.
 
It tell nothing about him being High 1-A nor surpassing the Noosphere. The interaction literally tell us that 3812 will still be a small child no matter what compared to the god-tier SCPs that scale to SCP-5800, even the smallest thing in it like SCP-5712.
 
Wardokman69 said:
It tell nothing about him being High 1-A nor surpassing the Noosphere. The interaction literally tell us that 3812 will still be a small child no matter what compared to the god-tier SCPs that scale to SCP-5800, even the smallest thing in it like SCP-5712.
Click to expand...

3812 still count as noosphere entity tho he literally will surpass anything due to his nature
 
I'm not saying that he will scale with entities like 5800, the scale with noosphere seems to be enough to prove that he can reach H1-A with his transcend ability
 
I think it's possible because in 3812's article, it was also said he wiped clean entire concepts from collective consciousness of all sentient beings
 
"It indicates 3812 can be in the noosphere." mf everything can exist in the Noosphere if you just throw them in there. It's not really a feat in any way by itself.

The best you could say is that 3812 can "ascend" while in conceptual space, allowing it to somewhat contain SCP-5800. But this specific bit is so vague I don't think we should tier 3812 based off it alone.

Though keep in mind this would more so be an EU key rather than a simple upgrade, even if accepted.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
"It indicates 3812 can be in the noosphere." mf everything can exist in the Noosphere if you just throw them in there. It's not really a feat in any way by itself.

The best you could say is that 3812 can "ascend" while in conceptual space, allowing it to somewhat contain SCP-5800. But this specific bit is so vague I don't think we should tier 3812 based off it alone.

Though keep in mind this would more so be an EU key rather than a simple upgrade, even if accepted.
Click to expand...
Im fine with key
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
"It indicates 3812 can be in the noosphere." mf everything can exist in the Noosphere if you just throw them in there. It's not really a feat in any way by itself.

The best you could say is that 3812 can "ascend" while in conceptual space, allowing it to somewhat contain SCP-5800. But this specific bit is so vague I don't think we should tier 3812 based off it alone.

Though keep in mind this would more so be an EU key rather than a simple upgrade, even if accepted.
Click to expand...
I just think that it can interact with the 5800 means it can be in the noosphere, if I remember correctly the 5800 is in the exonoosphre maybe the scale will be higher but idk, considering the SCP-3812's ability I also believe that it can be scaled with the noosphere or exosphere or like what you said I'm fine with it.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
"It indicates 3812 can be in the noosphere." mf everything can exist in the Noosphere if you just throw them in there. It's not really a feat in any way by itself.

The best you could say is that 3812 can "ascend" while in conceptual space, allowing it to somewhat contain SCP-5800. But this specific bit is so vague I don't think we should tier 3812 based off it alone.

Though keep in mind this would more so be an EU key rather than a simple upgrade, even if accepted.
Click to expand...
Actually it was implied he did "ascend" within the conceptual space, but the article said his ascension won't affect ***** within and always been a small child compared to it. So yeah, nothing really affect his tiering even with EU key, i.e; Not worth it until we get more of actual High 1-A feats.
 
Wardokman69 said:
Actually it was implied he did "ascend" within the conceptual space, but the article said his ascension won't affect ***** within and always been a small child compared to it. So yeah, nothing really affect his tiering even with EU key, i.e; Not worth it until we get more of actual High 1-A feats.
Click to expand...
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the 3812 can do it too even though it's not as powerful as the 5800.
 
MattSatire said:
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the 3812 can do it too even though it's not as powerful as the 5800.
Click to expand...
It seems you're having hard time to comprehend the article. Lemme break it down for you.
"The more that star tried to brighten everything" refers to his power to ascend through the conceptual space, "the more it realized that it was just a child in this enormous reality" refers to his realization of inability to reach whatever the hell in "this enermous reality" a.k.a SCP-5800.

It also means no matter how far he ascend within it, he will still unable to surpass whatever within it.
No matter how far you're into 1-A, you will never reach High 1-A by stacking regular transcendence.

Compare it to the Scarlet King's avatar who does the same, but at least he did fought the inhabitants and stalemate their god.
 
Wardokman69 said:
It seems you're having hard time to comprehend the article. Lemme break it down for you.
"The more that star tried to brighten everything" refers to his power to ascend through the conceptual space, "the more it realized that it was just a child in this enormous reality" refers to his realization of inability to reach whatever the hell in "this enermous reality" a.k.a SCP-5800.

It also means no matter how far he ascend within it, he will still unable to surpass whatever within it.
No matter how far you're into 1-A, you will never reach High 1-A by stacking regular transcendence.

Compare it to the Scarlet King's avatar who does the same, but at least he did fought the inhabitants and stalemate their god.
Click to expand...
I disagree, I think 5800 thinks of 3812 as a child because he is so weak, maybe for now, is being weaker than 5800 an antifeats? I don't think so, you don't even have evidence that he can't transcend anything there, in the article 3812 was able to transcend narrative, himself, and also ben, even ben wasn't able to stop his transcending ability.

"𝘐'𝘮 𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘺, 𝘐 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘐'𝘷𝘦 𝘧𝘶𝘤𝘬𝘦𝘥 𝘶𝘱 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘺 𝘣𝘢𝘥𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦. 𝘐'𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘰𝘧, 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯'𝘵 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘰 𝘏𝘪𝘮"
 
Again I don't think this should be used for tiering at all. It's very vague, and you could probably interpret it in a way that wouldn't require scaling (as other Keter Duty type containment have managed to work without needing direct scaling).

And like I said, anything can be High 1-A if inserted in conceptual space. Such possibility isn't worth tiering at all unless this state is notable (Like SCP-2317 having actual, explicit feats of fighting off SCP-5800 as a whole). And 3812's case is way too vague to be worth a key. If anything, the statement we get indicates how small and insignificant 3812 is compared to 5800, making any scaling at all dubious at best.

On top of that, 3812 scaling to 5800 in such a way... doesn't make sense. Narrative layers that 3812 ascends would either be entirely below or entirely above 5800. Not in this weird state where 3812 can meaningfully fight with 5800 without instantly destroying them. So it's not only vague, but it's also mostly nonsensical. It really should be discarded unless we get more and better scaling material.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Again I don't think this should be used for tiering at all. It's very vague, and you could probably interpret it in a way that wouldn't require scaling (as other Keter Duty type containment have managed to work without needing direct scaling).

And like I said, anything can be High 1-A if inserted in conceptual space. Such possibility isn't worth tiering at all unless this state is notable (Like SCP-2317 having actual, explicit feats of fighting off SCP-5800 as a whole). And 3812's case is way too vague to be worth a key. If anything, the statement we get indicates how small and insignificant 3812 is compared to 5800, making any scaling at all dubious at best.

On top of that, 3812 scaling to 5800 in such a way... doesn't make sense. Narrative layers that 3812 ascends would either be entirely below or entirely above 5800. Not in this weird state where 3812 can meaningfully fight with 5800 without instantly destroying them. So it's not only vague, but it's also mostly nonsensical. It really should be discarded unless we get more and better scaling material.
Click to expand...
Okay, but why not just scale to conceptual space instead of 5800? From what I said earlier at least he will be scaled with noosphere,conceptual space or whetever fk is that, Isn't that more possible than arguing 3812 can fight with 5800 which 3812 will definitely be demolished, the existence of 3812 in the conceptual space coupled with its feats that erase all concepts at least the scale will be higher, can't we label it likely,possibly?
 
Agree with Saikou.
MattSatire said:
Okay, but why not just scale to conceptual space instead of 5800? From what I said earlier at least he will be scaled with noosphere,conceptual space or whetever fk is that, Isn't that more possible than arguing 3812 can fight with 5800 which 3812 will definitely be demolished, the existence of 3812 in the conceptual space coupled with its feats that erase all concepts at least the scale will be higher, can't we label it likely,possibly?
Click to expand...
Hey, in fact, 3812 need not EC key for High 1-A feats with some dubious scaling. His AC key already have it. Erasing entire concept as fundamental as emotion from collective consciousness of every sentient being is undoubtedly High 1-A feat by itself in SCPverse. But he's not physically at that tier, i.e he's physically 1-A+ with High 1-A hax.
 
Wardokman69 said:
Agree with Saikou.

Hey, in fact, 3812 need not EC key for High 1-A feats with some dubious scaling. His AC key already have it. Erasing entire concept as fundamental as emotion from collective consciousness of every sentient being is undoubtedly High 1-A feat by itself in SCPverse. But he's not physically at that tier, i.e he's physically 1-A+ with High 1-A hax.
Click to expand...
It's been more than a year since I can remember after scp did a revision, until now in profile 3812 there is no H1-A via hax because the physical reality is only 1A or 1A+ because there no mention noosphere or something
 
MattSatire said:
Okay, but why not just scale to conceptual space instead of 5800? From what I said earlier at least he will be scaled with noosphere,conceptual space or whetever fk is that, Isn't that more possible than arguing 3812 can fight with 5800 which 3812 will definitely be demolished, the existence of 3812 in the conceptual space coupled with its feats that erase all concepts at least the scale will be higher, can't we label it likely,possibly?
Click to expand...
Did you not listen to me? Simply existing in conceptual space isn’t a feat by itself. Beings can be introduced into conceptual space by outside means, and this happened many time before. 3812 ending up in 5800 isn’t a feat for it and isn’t worth tiering.

3812 scaling to Noospheric shit would be contradictory to its primary Kaktusverse incarnation, so you’d need really good proofs for such a thing to be acceptable.
 
SCP-3812 should not be put below information based reality, Kaktus has already confirmed that IS and IS-NOT are parts of what he transcended.

Edit: should probably mention that this person (the one who asked Kaktus) reached out to me and took these screenshots around July.
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
SCP-3812 should not be put below information based reality, Kaktus has already confirmed that IS and IS-NOT are parts of what he transcended.

Edit: should probably mention that this person (the one who asked Kaktus) reached out to me and took these screenshots around July.
Click to expand...
Using unverifiable Discord messages as proof to counteract information directly contradicting info actually published on the website
Click to expand...

Imagine
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
SCP-3812 should not be put below information based reality, Kaktus has already confirmed that IS and IS-NOT are parts of what he transcended.

Edit: should probably mention that this person (the one who asked Kaktus) reached out to me and took these screenshots around July.
Click to expand...
Why is discord conversation being used as evidence?
 
Don’t use random Discord messsages that some guy you know asked an author for your proofs. People say shit all the time on Discord, it shouldn’t be used at all.

And this contradicts the idea of the Library connecting every universes together (which Kaktus II and III confirm are narratives).
 
I apologise, but "discord messages" are not really solid justifications to ignore what the author has said regarding the matter, while I do understand being cautious against using Word of God's in a verse like SCP, these messages clearly show that DJkaktus disagrees with SCP-3812 being below conceptual space, or even the level of IS and IS-NOT. Especially with a character who's whole current justification of being kept below the Noosphere guys is, respectively, kind of speculative from what I remember.

Whatever evidence or qualifications anyone here requires from me to make this a solid Word of God, I'll get them, from what I remember the guy who sent me them was pretty cooperative, I just didn't push forward because I didn't really care about it that much at that time.
 
It absolutely is a good enough reasons to ignore this piece of evidence. WoG like this is never used as valid evidence. Most prominently because Discord messages aren’t able to be sourced and spurt of the moment messages like that aren’t always reliable. And like I said it contradicts what we know about narratives here.
 
I have another evidence to prove 3812 h1a but i think we need to wait, because it could be like the time I made a thread where the article was deleted, but don't close the comments yet.
 
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