SCARLET WITCH AND THE GRIEVER Revisions

[MrKerf]

How?? What about her domain that exists at the void in Scarlet witch series?

Well, he describes the reason he liked her original appearance, the one he built upon. Naturally, I can't prove it, but his statement doesn't prove anything either.

Honestly, no idea about void. I might assume that it is the case of talking about higher abstract that stays in the said void, as Prof mentioned, by its such a throwaway line in a single scan, I don't know. What void, what domain? Oblivion maybe? Who knows.

Wasn't everything came from the Big Bang?

•Chaos magic, often referred to as (Primordial Chaos), is believed to have existed before all creation and played a role in forming everything, Spider-Man Vol. 4 .Annual 001 (2023) including possibilities and Orders. The Waiting Room, a space where magic lives and grows, was crafted from Chaos magic. Since Chaos magic existed before the laws of magic were established, it is not limited by these laws. And don't ignore the fact that the WHR is life and death and the WTR is a space in between it.

I honestly don't see where you get the "all Creation". All possibilities time and time again were said to be akin to What-Ifs, all that can be. Like the Queen of Nevers too. All pretty consistent with statements of Wanda being able to stop the death of Creation. If you backtracked from this one - sure, I guess. But all Creation is still only Eternity, not the White Hot Room, in this context.
And I don't see Chaos Magic existing before laws of magic. The Fifth was said to create all magic. And I think you are confusing about Spider-Man scans, which clearly talk about in universe events and magics, not the before First Firmament spark.

The ability originated from its inherent composition edge. Why is this considered an outlier? The Edge of Reality first appeared in Silver Surfer v7 (2014). How is it classified as an outlier?

My understanding is that the outlier is specifically carving out the Queen's heart, as it states "And in that moment when anything could happen... something terrible did".
Was the Edge ever even clashed physically with anything? The best it has is unknown durability.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Well, he describes the reason he liked her original appearance, the one he built upon. Naturally, I can't prove it, but his statement doesn't prove anything either.

Honestly, no idea about void. I might assume that it is the case of talking about higher abstract that stays in the said void, as Prof mentioned, by its such a throwaway line in a single scan, I don't know. What void, what domain? Oblivion maybe? Who knows.

•At least the Void might be in the Far Shore, this should assume her as Omniversal-state that exists on the Outside. She's even stated that she's beyond the bounds of the Cosmos. But if you still assume her as Universal-state, at least her Universal-state should scaling to ' Likely H1-A '

•He’s saying that while she is all-powerful, she is not all-knowing, which limits her ability to cross dimensions. This means that although she might have the power to cross dimensions, but her nature as an abstract entity that waiting for the end of everything, outside of creation itself, might restrict her. Her nature is waiting for the time to drawn her to the Cosmos. Due to the fact that she's able to travel to the Mystery, the Land of Shouldn't be Couldn't be, and access the Edge of reality that exists outside of the Cosmos itself. I'm pretty sure this is the Griever (Omniversal-state).

•And this context might be a good reference to Omniversal-Griever

I honestly don't see where you get the "all Creation". All possibilities time and time again were said to be akin to What-Ifs, all that can be. Like the Queen of Nevers too. All pretty consistent with statements of Wanda being able to stop the death of Creation. If you backtracked from this one - sure, I guess. But all Creation is still only Eternity, not the White Hot Room, in this context.
And I don't see Chaos Magic existing before laws of magic. The Fifth was said to create all magic. And I think you are confusing about Spider-Man scans, which clearly talk about in universe events and magics, not the before First Firmament spark.

•Chaos magic is often assuming as Chaos, or Primordial Chaos, which predates all creation. Everything is believed to have begun with the Big Bang, Chaos war #4 and the concept of Chaos exists even before all of creation. The universe and the rest of the Multiverse began with the Big Bang. If Chaos is the first building blocks of existence, it represents the earliest primordial spark of cosmic understanding and happenstance ,the impossible improbable itself. It embodies the ' possibility ' of both, neither, and everything in between, serving as a force that moves between life and death. Therefore, Chaos is also one of the forces that contributed to the creation of the Big Bang in some way. Chaos magic cannot be limited to creating just a single universe when all of the Multiverse began with the Big Bang.

My understanding is that the outlier is specifically carving out the Queen's heart, as it states "And in that moment when anything could happen... something terrible did".
Was the Edge ever even clashed physically with anything? The best it has is unknown durability.

Yes, it does withstand the spells from Scarlet Witch, The Living Darkhold, who should be at least Low 1-A, Likely far higher. Additionally, considering that the Edge was able to cut through the Never Queen initially, and the Never Queen can heal herself afterward, this seems to be make sense ,not an outlier.

 

[MrKerf]

I think at this point our issues lie on the cosmological side of things, so we might need to ask help from some knowledgeable members here. (Like those two who put likes under posts but not saying much XD)
As for the Edge… I guess I don’t really mind it being Low 1-A. It probably shouldn’t be, but it is more plausible at least.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I think at this point our issues lie on the cosmological side of things, so we might need to ask help from some knowledgeable members here. (Like those two who put likes under posts but not saying much XD)
As for the Edge… I guess I don’t really mind it being Low 1-A. It probably shouldn’t be, but it is more plausible at least.

Thanks for your opinion. I'm still wondering why it shouldn't be at that level, after I have given you all text-scans.

 

[BunBun]

honestly don't see where you get the "all Creation". All possibilities time and time again were said to be akin to What-Ifs, all that can be. Like the Queen of Nevers too. All pretty consistent with statements of Wanda being able to stop the death of Creation. If you backtracked from this one - sure, I guess. But all Creation is still only Eternity, not the White Hot Room, in this context.
And I don't see Chaos Magic existing before laws of magic. The Fifth was said to create all magic. And I think you are confusing about Spider-Man scans, which clearly talk about in universe events and magics, not the before First Firmament spark.

Chaos magic is much more than just magic—it's freedom. Chaos magic is pure chaos and freedom, The concept that exists in the Land of Can-Be-Shall-Be. This makes sense to me^-^, considering that the Scarlet Witch created the Waiting Room on the same plane as the White Hot Room. She learned to create the Waiting Room in a place where Chaos exists. the White Hot Room represents life and death, and Chaos is a force moving between these states, as Yoko has stated.This make sense.

 

[MrKerf]

Thanks for your opinion. I'm still wondering why it shouldn't be at that level, after I have given you all text-scans.

Well, it’s either High 1-A for harming the Queen, Low 1-A for clashing with Wanda, or tier 3 for repelling Silver Surfer’s power cosmic. All are viable and all contradict one another in some way.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Well, it’s either High 1-A for harming the Queen, Low 1-A for clashing with Wanda, or tier 3 for repelling Silver Surfer’s power cosmic. All are viable and all contradict one another in some way.

And how is this an issue? The Silver Surfer is unable to affect the Edge of Reality because it is beyond his cosmic power; Silver Surfer v7 (2014) the Edge defies reality and is beyond the cosmos. The Edge is clearly Tier 1, as demonstrated by its clashes with the Living Darkhold and the Never Queen.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Chaos magic is much more than just magic—it's freedom. Chaos magic is pure chaos and freedom, The concept that exists in the Land of Can-Be-Shall-Be. This makes sense to me^-^, considering that the Scarlet Witch created the Waiting Room on the same plane as the White Hot Room. She learned to create the Waiting Room in a place where Chaos exists. the White Hot Room represents life and death, and Chaos is a force moving between these states, as Yoko has stated.This make sense.

Thank

 

[BunBun]

Maybe, most likely, she does, as every other Abstract. And again, this statement is more likely to apply to her Universal state, especially considering how he says it, almost describing her past in FF. ("the Griever became an instant favorite")

Yes, and I have failed to see how the Chaos magic isn't limited to the Eternity. It isn't the primordial spark of all creation, only of the universe.
My point was - magic is limited to Eternity, because all of it was created by Fifth Cosmos, who couldn't create something inside himself that is also stronger than him, and surpasses Beyonders. And according to "it was craved from the seat of magic, a place where magic lives and grows" - the Waiting Room clearly limited by magic.
And if you don't believe me, look through the explanation page you've linked, there's a reason magic is overall Low 1-A and not above (except maybe possibly far higher, which haven't been proven before).

Its inherent composition allows it to cut anything, sure, but it is an ability. We don't know how durable it is. And harming Never Queen is clearly an outlier for the reasons I've already mentioned above.

For me, Marvel's magic should be far higher.

In Thor's current comic run, Immortal Thor, the concept of magic exemplifies H1-A level. For instance, the Elder Gods are depicted with immense power. One of these Elder Gods, Utgard-Loki, was capable of creating a realm outside of Yggdrasil, known as Utgard-Land or Shadow-Land, which may be home to the Those Who Sit Above In Shadow. Additionally, Toranos was banished to the farthest shore of Eternity but managed to return to the origin-universe without damage from traveling across dimensions. Note: Traveling across high-planes of dimensions can be extremely damaging, as even Conner Sims, as the Herald of Life, sustained injuries from dimension-hopping at the Superflow.

Tiwaz, possessing powerful runes that could overpower Tyr. Tyr, who was corrupted by the Serpent of the End, was able to destroy Yggdrasil.

In the Scarlet Witch series, Chthon is described as Chaos&Freedom, a concept that exists in the Land of Can-be-Shall-be, which represents unchecked possibility. His role poses a threat to the grand design, which encompasses the concepts of how all things begin and how all things end.

Scarlet Witch also created the Waiting Room using Chaos magic. This realm exists on the Outside, possibly on the same plane as the WHR, as it is described as a space between life and death—and these concepts represented by the WHR. She also transformed it into a location where magic lives and grows. Since all magic relies on Chaos magic, it makes sense that she would establish a new location for it. Note:The mutants' souls were able to cross to the WHR because they chose the pathway in the Waiting Room that led them there. The Waiting Room is the seat of magic here, magic consists of symbols and metaphors—signifiers of power, much like the icons of Death and The Living Tribunal in the realm.

Range: The range of magic should be H1A, given that Agatha could transcend to the Megaverse, Thor was able to banish Toranos to the farthest shore of Eternity, and Scarlet Witch's creation ,the Last Door, was able to transcend to the Mystery. She is also capable of entering higher planes of existence, such as Overspace and the Superflow.

Thor and Scarlet Witch's series are good examples of how Marvel's magic has been upgraded Isn't Rune King Thor already at the H1-A level, and isn't his abilities thrive on magic?^-^

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out here, MrKerf.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it’s either High 1-A for harming the Queen, Low 1-A for clashing with Wanda, or tier 3 for repelling Silver Surfer’s power cosmic. All are viable and all contradict one another in some way.

Yes. Marvel Comics is a mess in terms of inconsistent scaling, so it is hard for me to properly evaluate it.

@Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Firestorm808 @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Deagonx

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[Yokoahh5743]

For me, Marvel's magic should be far higher.

In Thor's current comic run, Immortal Thor, the concept of magic exemplifies H1-A level. For instance, the Elder Gods are depicted with immense power. One of these Elder Gods, Utgard-Loki, was capable of creating a realm outside of Yggdrasil, known as Utgard-Land or Shadow-Land, which may be home to the Those Who Sit Above In Shadow. Additionally, Toranos was banished to the farthest shore of Eternity but managed to return to the origin-universe without damage from traveling across dimensions. Note: Traveling across high-planes of dimensions can be extremely damaging, as even Conner Sims, as the Herald of Life, sustained injuries from dimension-hopping at the Superflow.

Tiwaz, possessing powerful runes that could overpower Tyr. Tyr, who was corrupted by the Serpent of the End, was able to destroy Yggdrasil.

In the Scarlet Witch series, Chthon is described as Chaos&Freedom, a concept that exists in the Land of Can-be-Shall-be, which represents unchecked possibility. His role poses a threat to the grand design, which encompasses the concepts of how all things begin and how all things end.

Scarlet Witch also created the Waiting Room using Chaos magic. This realm exists on the Outside, possibly on the same plane as the WHR, as it is described as a space between life and death—and these concepts represented by the WHR. She also transformed it into a location where magic lives and grows. Since all magic relies on Chaos magic, it makes sense that she would establish a new location for it. Note:The mutants' souls were able to cross to the WHR because they chose the pathway in the Waiting Room that led them there. The Waiting Room is the seat of magic here, magic consists of symbols and metaphors—signifiers of power, much like the icons of Death and The Living Tribunal in the realm.

Range: The range of magic should be H1A, given that Agatha could transcend to the Megaverse, Thor was able to banish Toranos to the farthest shore of Eternity, and Scarlet Witch's creation ,the Last Door, was able to transcend to the Mystery. She is also capable of entering higher planes of existence, such as Overspace and the Superflow.

Thor and Scarlet Witch's series are good examples of how Marvel's magic has been upgraded Isn't Rune King Thor already at the H1-A level, and isn't his abilities thrive on magic?^-^

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm still curious whether the Waiting Room exists on the same plane as the White Hot Room. However, based on the information you provided, it seems likely that they are on the same plane, as the Waiting Room leads all the mutants' souls to the White Hot Room. This supports the similar clouds from the Waiting Room at the edge of the White Hot Room.

 

[BunBun]

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm still curious whether the Waiting Room exists on the same plane as the White Hot Room. However, based on the information you provided, it seems likely that they are on the same plane, as the Waiting Room leads all the mutants' souls to the White Hot Room. This supports the similar clouds from the Waiting Room at the edge of the White Hot Room.

Actually, I agreed with you from the start ^-^. I don’t know why there was an issue with these revisions. Maybe it’s due to the Griever's limitations?(I think you have explained this). What really confuses me is the Edge of Reality— it clearly overpowered Silver Surfer, so why should it be tier 3 when it shows the potential to be tier 1 in the first place?

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Actually, I agreed with you from the start ^-^. I don’t know why there was an issue with these revisions. Maybe it’s due to the Griever's limitations?(I think you have explained this). What really confuses me is the Edge of Reality— it clearly overpowered Silver Surfer, so why should it be tier 3 when it shows the potential to be tier 1 in the first place?

Thank you

 

[Roirr]

I disagree High 1a Wanda because I don't think it is the multiversal form of griever in the event in question, while the multiversal forms of lord chaos and master order are in superflow of the dreamspace in the ultimates event. they state that they cannot use their powers in normal space because it will damage space

Griever's multiversal form is hierarchically much larger than that of Lord chaos and master order because in the ff 2018 series he was shown to be equivalent to never queen and multi Eternity

So if Wanda literally fought the true griever, the space they were in, the universe, and possibly the local multiverse would have to collapse.

I agree low 1a scarlet witch and imme speed.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I think that it seems more likely to have been the universal Griever in that case, but do not know if the writer cared about inconsistencies such as that Quicksilver was beating up an entity that is supposedly stronger than multiversal Eternity.

Sorry for interrupting, but I have found new information that suggests this might be the Griever's Omniversal-state, not her M-body. What do you think about it?(I also wanted to get an opinion from MrKerf and ProfectusInfinity.)

•6:09:The author also confirmed that the Griever in this series is the embodiment of the end of everything.

•7:14 In this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one there- to do it. So it's clearly her Omniversal-state not an M-body. Just like when she was drawn to Eternity.

 

[Roirr]

Sorry for interrupting, but I have found new information that suggests this might be the Griever's Omniversal-state, not her M-body. What do you think about it?(I also wanted to get an opinion from MrKerf and ProfectusInfinity.)

•6:09:The author also confirmed that the Griever in this series is the embodiment of the end of everything.

•7:14 In this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one there- to do it. So it's clearly her Omniversal-state not an M-body. Just like when she was drawn to Eternity.

It doesn't make her an omniversel griever, it's called the end of everything in uni griever. In fact, there is no concrete evidence that he is an omniversel griever.

Even if the omniversal griever passes, we still can't treat it as such because there are clear contradictions, which I mentioned above.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I disagree High 1a Wanda because I don't think it is the multiversal form of griever in the event in question, while the multiversal forms of lord chaos and master order are in superflow of the dreamspace in the ultimates event. they state that they cannot use their powers in normal space because it will damage space

Griever's multiversal form is hierarchically much larger than that of Lord chaos and master order because in the ff 2018 series he was shown to be equivalent to never queen and multi Eternity

So if Wanda literally fought the true griever, the space they were in, the universe, and possibly the local multiverse would have to collapse.

I agree low 1a scarlet witch and imme speed.

The Griever embodies the concept of how all things end. She knows when the time to end the Cosmos will arrive, but that time has not come yet. She serves the grand design, a predetermined path for the end of all things. I think she might know how to control her destructive power, as evidenced by her use of machines to focus her destructiveness. If you're still wondering whether this is her Omniversal-state, you can refer to the text I provided above

 

[Yokoahh5743]

It doesn't make her an omniversel griever, it's called the end of everything in uni griever. In fact, there is no concrete evidence that he is an omniversel griever.

Even if the omniversal griever passes, we still can't treat it as such because there are clear contradictions, which I mentioned above.

That’s not the point. The point is that the author stated that, in this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one to do it, which refers to her omniversal state.

 

[Roirr]

The Griever embodies the concept of how all things end. She knows when the time to end the Cosmos will arrive, but that time has not come yet. She serves the grand design, a predetermined path for the end of all things. I think she might know how to control her destructive power, as evidenced by her use of machines to focus her destructiveness. If you're still wondering whether this is her Omniversal-state, you can refer to the text I provided above

There is nothing to discuss here. M body griever is also called the end of everything, uni griever is also called the end of everything. So just because you call it the end of everything at the top doesn't make it an omniversal griever. It was also stated that the griever in sw 2024 is above universal concepts, so the scale it addresses is clear.

 

[Roirr]

That’s not the point. The point is that the author stated that, in this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one to do it, which refers to her omniversal state.

If there was an omniversal griever you can be sure that earth 616 and the local multiverse would have already been destroyed, man, and I've already explained why. So even if the author calls him an omniversal griever, it doesn't change the contradiction I mentioned.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

There is nothing to discuss here. M body griever is also called the end of everything, uni griever is also called the end of everything. So just because you call it the end of everything at the top doesn't make it an omniversal griever. It was also stated that the griever in sw 2024 is above universal concepts, so the scale it addresses is clear.

I’m not just talking about her being called that; I’m also referring to how the author described her.And in this series it's not just her that mentioned about herself, everyone does mentioned that she will end everything, every universes, including the dead realm. Even an abstract entity like the Never Queen also mentioned the Griever who appeared in the series to be the end of all creation, and exists along with her outside space-time.I have never seen other Omniversal- beings referring to an Universal-abstract entities on Omniversal-state. And if this is really her Universal-state her Universal-state should be ' Likely H1-A ' by exists at the Void, beyond the bounds of the Cosmos. But I assume that she isn't, based on the new information I have received. .

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If there was an omniversal griever you can be sure that earth 616 and the local multiverse would have already been destroyed, man, and I've already explained why. So even if the author calls him an omniversal griever, it doesn't change the contradiction I mentioned.

Did you read what I replied?

• ' The Griever embodies the concept of how all things end. She knows when the time to end the Cosmos will arrive, but that time has not come yet. She serves the grand design, a predetermined path for the end of all things. I think she might know how to control her destructive power, as evidenced by her use of machines to focus her destructiveness. If you're still wondering whether this is her Omniversal-state, you can refer to the text I provided above '. They're different concepts, they're not the end.

• ' The author stated that, in this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one to do it, which refers to her omniversal state.' This is clearly her Omniversal-state.You’re being unreasonable.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If there was an omniversal griever you can be sure that earth 616 and the local multiverse would have already been destroyed, man, and I've already explained why. So even if the author calls him an omniversal griever, it doesn't change the contradiction I mentioned.

It does change tho.Her goal was to destroy the Scarlet Witch and her town. The Griever embodies the concept of how all things end. She knows how to control her destructive power and is the concept of destruction itself. Why wouldn’t she be able to control her destructiveness when she is destruction itself and only wants the Scarlet Witch to be gone? You have proven nothing and ignored the statement the author talk about the Griever."

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If there was an omniversal griever you can be sure that earth 616 and the local multiverse would have already been destroyed, man, and I've already explained why. So even if the author calls him an omniversal griever, it doesn't change the contradiction I mentioned.

The Griever even mentioned that she hasn't unleashed the full potential of her power yet, so you haven't proven anything. She is the embodiment of destruction itself, so it's reasonable that she would be able to control her destructiveness.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If there was an omniversal griever you can be sure that earth 616 and the local multiverse would have already been destroyed, man, and I've already explained why. So even if the author calls him an omniversal griever, it doesn't change the contradiction I mentioned.

What about she was able to handle the Edge of reality? What about Wanda threaten to the grand design, the concepts of how all things begin and end? What about the Waiting Room, that exists on the Outside? What about she was able to enter to a higher plane of existence like the Superflow and Overspace?

Shouldn't all of this make the Scarlet witch ' Likely H1-A ' ?

 

[Roirr]

What about she was able to handle the Edge of reality? What about Wanda threaten to the grand design, the concepts of how all things begin and end? What about the Waiting Room, that exists on the Outside? What about she was able to enter to a higher plane of existence like the Superflow and Overspace?

Shouldn't all of this make the Scarlet witch ' Likely H1-A ' ?

You are the one who is ignoring the contradiction I am talking about here.

Even if it is uni griever, it should be h1a because you say he went to voide beyond the cosmos. this is an impossible thing. Going outside the cosmos or going to higher realms never makes you high 1a. By this logic dead seed sentry would also be high 1a since he goes beyond the cosmos to the white hot room.

You also don't know anything about how terms in marvel work. Terms like creation or reality don't scale you to multi Eternity because these terms are mostly used for the universe which we saw in thor 2020 or avengers 2021 series.

In addition, I am not sure if you read the scans you sent because there is nothing to show that you are an omni griever and you don't need to do NLF

Once again I emphasize that Wanda going to overspace or going to superflow does not make her high 1a. Because marvel book says that low scale characters can go to higher realms than themselves. If it was as you say, characters like tigra blue marvel or sentry would be high 1a

 

[Roirr]

If you can't talk to people calmly, don't open crt.

 

[Roirr]

I don't care which design Griever is talking about. Treating him as an omniversal griever leads to a contradiction, but I didn't get an answer to that, instead you keep saying the same things.

I proved that griever is not omniversal, I assure you of that.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

You are the one who is ignoring the contradiction I am talking about here.

Even if it is uni griever, it should be h1a because you say he went to voide beyond the cosmos. this is an impossible thing. Going outside the cosmos or going to higher realms never makes you high 1a. By this logic dead seed sentry would also be high 1a since he goes beyond the cosmos to the white hot room.

You also don't know anything about how terms in marvel work. Terms like creation or reality don't scale you to multi Eternity because these terms are mostly used for the universe which we saw in thor 2020 or avengers 2021 series.

In addition, I am not sure if you read the scans you sent because there is nothing to show that you are an omni griever and you don't need to do NLF

Once again I emphasize that Wanda going to overspace or going to superflow does not make her high 1a. Because marvel book says that low scale characters can go to higher realms than themselves. If it was as you say, characters like tigra blue marvel or sentry would be high 1a

•You are the one who ignored the fact that the Griever able to control her destructive power.

• She is a conceptual being that 'exists' beyond the bounds of the cosmos, at the Void itself. Also, when did Sentry go to the White Hot Room? I haven't read that comic yet, could you provide a text scan?

•Okay, I'll mention this again: it's not just a universe. In the Scarlet Witch series, it's also described that other planes of existence, such as the Dead Realm or other universes, would face the Griever's end.

•How ?? The author even described that the Griever who appeared in the Scarlet Witch series is the one who will brought about the end of the Cosmos.

•(I will use some information from BunBun you can read the commet at #89)Traveling across high-planes of dimensions can be extremely damaging, as even Conner Sims, as the Herald of Life, sustained injuries from dimension-hopping at the Superflow. Even in Defenders: Beyond have stated that.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If you can't talk to people calmly, don't open crt.

English isn't my first language. I apologize if my words gave you the wrong impression. I didn't mean to disrespect you or anything.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I don't care which design Griever is talking about. Treating him as an omniversal griever leads to a contradiction, but I didn't get an answer to that, instead you keep saying the same things.

I proved that griever is not omniversal, I assure you of that.

For me, you haven't proven anything. You stated that if this were the Omniversal Griever, the battle would cause destruction to the fabric of reality, just like if the Lord of Chaos and the Master of Order were to battle. However, in the series, the Griever claimed she was able to control her destructive power. Therefore, your information doesn't provide proof of anything.

 

[MrKerf]

For me, you haven't proven anything. You stated that if this were the Omniversal Griever, the battle would cause destruction to the fabric of reality, just like if the Lord of Chaos and the Master of Order were to battle. However, in the series, the Griever claimed she was able to control her destructive power. Therefore, your information doesn't provide proof of anything.

Like, out of sheer curiosity, where does she say she can control her power? Not to say she ever had trouble with it ever before. She had a problem with focusing on small targets back in FF, and she still has the same problem, which is why she uses those giant constructs, to focus her powers. Here she states that she will destroy the planet and does nothing, so...

Plus, do you realise what would've happened if an Omniversal being tried to enter Eternity? Oblivion stated that him directly entering reality would cause an unimaginable catastrophe, and Griever is either compatible or stronger than him.

 

[Roirr]

For me, you haven't proven anything. You stated that if this were the Omniversal Griever, the battle would cause destruction to the fabric of reality, just like if the Lord of Chaos and the Master of Order were to battle. However, in the series, the Griever claimed she was able to control her destructive power. Therefore, your information doesn't provide proof of anything.

If you want me to be honest, I don't understand what you are saying right now, this is the first time I have seen such English.


As for the higher dimensions, the characters in the event you mentioned (Blue marvel, tigra, america chavez, loki,) travel to much higher planes than themselves, to the layers of sephirot.

First out of the cosmos. Then to the white hot room. Then to the abyss. And finally the house of ideas. They completed their journey into mystery without any damage from these layers, so this is definitely not something that gives high 1a, this is not the first time we've seen this in Marvel. Also a lot of the characters I mentioned above. Solar or lower level.

Sentry's event takes place in the uncanny avengers event.

Lord chaos la master order's multi forms (omniversal forms for you to understand) say that we cannot use our powers in normal space, this will damage the space/universe

Griever is an abstract like Lord chaos and master order. But hierarchically it is much higher than them. It is on the same level with Multi Eternity.

As for the scan you posted, this supports what I said on the contrary because it states that griever started to use all his power. If there was an omniversal griever, earth 616 and the local multiverse would collapse instantly. .D

I already told you the reason for this.

 

[BunBun]

If you want me to be honest, I don't understand what you are saying right now, this is the first time I have seen such English.

Not trying to attack or anything, but how can you not understand that simple context? His grammar is not wrong at all. What seems to be the problem? You even described the Griever's pronouns as 'his' and 'him,' and no one pick that up in the discussion. So why did you say something like that to him? Are you saying this because he mentioned that his first language isn’t English?

 

[FentyBeauty]

Not trying to attack or anything, but how can you not understand that simple context? His grammar is not wrong at all. What seems to be the problem? You even described the Griever's pronouns as 'his' and 'him,' and no one pick that up in the discussion. So why did you say something like that to him?

i dont think they meant to refer to the griever as his or him

but anyways yeaa i was gonna advocate for yoko abt the english part bc like they pointed out that english wasnt their first language so the things they say won’t always be understandable n u could always have them rephrase it

other than that, i’m also honestly leaning towards the argument of the griever that fought wanda is just a universal manifestation of her

like roirr’s & mrkerf’s point abt how if it was rlly omniversal griever there would be contradictions to that

 

[BunBun]

i dont think they meant to refer to the griever as his or him

but anyways yeaa i was gonna advocate for yoko abt the english part bc like they pointed out that english wasnt their first language so the things they say won’t always be understandable n u could always have them rephrase it

other than that, i’m also honestly leaning towards the argument of the griever that fought wanda is just a universal manifestation of her

like roirr’s & mrkerf’s point abt how if it was rlly omniversal griever there would be contradictions to that

Ok—ok— even English isn't Yoko's first language ,his grammar is pretty clear tho-, but be for real, why did these discussions take so longT^T? Yoko even got confirmation from the Scarlet Witch's writer himself, yet people still try to downgrade her to fighting the Griever (Universal-state). Why can’t they just accept that the author has confirmed that she is the Griever (Omniversal-state)? The scan he got is pretty clear tho^-^.

( Should I refer to Yoko as 'he'? ,-,. )

 

[MrKerf]

Sorry for interrupting, but I have found new information that suggests this might be the Griever's Omniversal-state, not her M-body. What do you think about it?(I also wanted to get an opinion from MrKerf and ProfectusInfinity.)

•6:09:The author also confirmed that the Griever in this series is the embodiment of the end of everything.

•7:14 In this series, the Griever is the one who will end the Cosmos. When the concept of Death vanishes and everything is obliterated, she will be the one to bring it all to nothingness. She will be the one there- to do it. So it's clearly her Omniversal-state not an M-body. Just like when she was drawn to Eternity.

Yeah, watched it, both statements don't add anything substantial.

 

[Roirr]

Ok—ok— even English isn't Yoko's first language ,his grammar is pretty clear tho-, but be for real, why did these discussions take so longT^T? Yoko even got confirmation from the Scarlet Witch's writer himself, yet people still try to downgrade her to fighting the Griever (Universal-state). Why can’t they just accept that the author has confirmed that she is the Griever (Omniversal-state)? The scan he got is pretty clear tho^-^.

( Should I refer to Yoko as 'he'? ,-,. )

Say hello to that author bro, I will discuss this with the author, multiversal forms of abstracts cannot use their powers in normal space. It damages space. The griever is using all of its power.

 

[BunBun]

Say hello to that author bro, I will discuss this with the author, multiversal forms of abstracts cannot use their powers in normal space. It damages space. The griever is using all of its power.

Steve Orlando: Hello there

If the author has already confirmed it—like the writer himself confirmed—why are you still disagreeing? Isn’t the interview clear— T^T Like-- You all wanted confirmation about the Omniversal-Griever, and Yoko found and provided it to you. Even though you got what you wanted, you still disagree. What’s the problem.-.? I'm just curious.