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Sans vs Tim Taylor

Tim takes this handily. Most of his weapons are spread shot. And since he can interact and destroy non physical with his weapons. He swings his chainsaw once, or several times and one or several giant waves of energy comes out, and it destroys all of Sans attacks and projectiles while tagging Sans as he couldn't side dodge since it's a several meters while continues growing. And it would also surprise him cause that's not something you would expect really. Or he spam shoots his nail spread shot gun which moves through Sans attacks and tags him in an onslaught of nails. Or his flamethrower does the same. And his Electricity gun is unpredictable and too hard to dodge. He spams literally any of his guns and Sans is overwhelmed by several projectiles. Or giant waves of energy. And since his is a projectile or large range, plus being so much stronger. None of Sans attacks will be able to touch Tim. And even if he got hit a few times. He still could survived a few hits. He doesn't need to react much to Sans attacks. His wave and spread shot weapons makes aiming almost irrelevant. Plus having a decent range advantage. And should things get too hot. Grappling hook. Which debatably counters gravity manipulation. Since it isn't gravity pulling him that way. It's the hook, which is much stronger than Sans. Even Sans Bloodlusted has no way to stop Tim from just spamming his chainsaw, flamethrower, Nail gun spread shot, or Electric gun. Which are several projectiles at once, a massive projectile that covers too much ground for Sans to avoid, and can destroy all of Sans attacks. Tim has this
 
I do believe Sans can handle that range by either just attacking via blasters or forcing Tim into another spot to attack him considering he's bloodlusted.

Just a couple seconds with sans' soul attacks and Tim gets totally busted. Going for Sans due to his telekinesis, soul destruction and his forceful teleportation of opponents.
 
Nah, I don't think that's necessary.

I just think that Sans bloodlusted will both teleport out of attacks and forcefully teleport Tim into disadvantages. That sorta just nets him the win.
 
But he's bloodlusted.

Hes gonna do what allows him to win.

Bloodlusting is literally making someone the most efficient user of their own powers.
 
The argument for Tim doesn't make much sense though tbf. The moment the fight starts Sans starts off with his strongest attack, which would be knocking the dude either into the wall or straight into the ground and stabbing him with bones that are going to obliterate him instantly. Even if you don't want to go that far or argue something about the range, Sans will immediately teleport Tim into an attack that he's not going to be able to dodge without some prior knowledge of what's happening.

Tim May win if he immediately goes for a ranged attack but even then a bloodlusted Sans would teleport out of the way or possibly destroy the nails with a Gaster blaster if we go that route. Hell, maybe teleport Tim in front of the nails. He's going to be using his powers the most efficient way possible so...
 
Your argument makes not that much sense in a few places. Sans either teleports with the start or first attack. He hasn't shown to do both at the same time. If he teleports, (I think he has too) then that gives Tim the time to attack. And they did bring up the point the chainsaw, Nail gun, flamethrower, And electric gun all kinds screw Sans arsenal over. It touches non physical and can destroy them. And is leagues beyond in strength. And really. Sans wouldn't expect that. It's not a normal weapon. None of his weapons are. His flamethrower is just his blow torch made to be as strong as a flamethrower. They don't really spell out spread shot. And Sans hasn't faced spread shot before

Also. He does start with range. All his weapons are ranged aside from his axe. And why would he use that from a distance? That doesn't make sense. And I doubt he would think to do that. I also doubt sans would think to teleport Tim in front of his nails.
 
Sans wouldn't expect...what? A spread shot? Because I think he'd see a human first and immediately choose to kill him. Besides, he could just do, uh...basically what he does to you in the genocide run when you try to spare him. There's no reason why he can't.
 
I mean the fact his weapons act like they do. His nail gun shoots a spread shot of nails. Which would mow through any and all of Sans attacks should they make contact due to the power difference. And his chainsaw shoots a massive energy. That was a point brought up. How would sans even expect those kinds of stuff. Plus, the fact he can physically attack Sans attacks. Which isn't something he has faced so all of that is gonna be new to sans.
 
His spare attack is iffy at best. His point was to stop frisk. Yet he never used it unless you spare him. If he didn't mind staying there forever, which he didn't, he would have just spammed that. Plus. Tim could still destroy it with a single swing and survive a few seconds.
 
And it's not like Sans can't adapt to it, so...eh.

Also to address an earlier point Sans sorta...does attack and teleport someone at the same time. In-game he teleports you into one place with an attack coming your way, and then while you're reacting to that, he teleports you somewhere else with a whole new attack coming your way so...I mean he can do both.

I don't think Sans would be so caught up on a fucky weapon considering in Undertale you can attack with an empty gun or a damn notebook.
 
Except if he is caught off guard. He is dead most likely he literally gets grazed by an attack and dies cause City Block.

And he gives time though. His attacks took a few seconds before he teleports. Nothing is stopping Tim from swinging his chainsaw or flamethrower rapidly. Or just constantly firing his nail gun and keeping attacks away. And we can't assume he can do both at the same time. He never did that and doesn't suggest he could.

But the range and spread shot is not something he has handled. Or someone who can destroy his attacks
 
Buttersamuri said:
His spare attack is iffy at best. His point was to stop frisk. Yet he never used it unless you spare him. If he didn't mind staying there forever, which he didn't, he would have just spammed that. Plus. Tim could still destroy it with a single swing and survive a few seconds.
Click to expand...
Okay so first of all, you bloodlusted Sans so you can't just say "he didn't spam it in character so he wouldn't here" becuase the rules of the match openly go against that. Second of all, due to how the soul stuff works, like we talked about with discord literally only like two threads ago...he would die within like one or two seconds if Sans were to do that.

I still don't think sans would be caught off guard by range, something that monsters just sorta have, or spread shot when someone is literally aiming a gun at him.
 
Literally in his fight with Frisk, he had no reason to hold back. His mercy attack was only usable when Frisk used mercy. Literally only then. This isn't about him spamming it in character or not. The fact is, he was only able to use that in a specific circumstance.

Wrong. He would have a few seconds. More than just 1 to 2. Not only does the poison need to reach the end of his health, but it doesn't kill him once it does. Physically damage has to do the killing blow. Poison actually can only poison you too 1. And he only needs to swing his arm to cancel that out. Or grappling hook off the ground. Which gravity manipulation couldn't counter. As Sans magic isn't stronger then Tim's items. It would pull him harder than Sans gravity could

And that gun didn't spread shot. It went one direction. In this case. It's a massive wave of energy that he couldn't dodge, or covering several areas. Nothing Sans has ever faced. And like I said. He hasn't faced someone who can downright destroy his attacks either. So that's definitely gonna catch him off guard.
 
It's gonna catch him off guard for like a second. Sans is smart enough that he isn't gonna just...middle over it for more than like a second or two. Also, no, not wrong. Frisk gets wrecked in a few seconds and they have good soul resistance. We talked about this on the discord thread. A normal human soul would die within one or two seconds. Also Tim can't destroy a Gaster blaster energy wave. He'd only be able to destroy the actual blaster itself, unless you have proof of him destroying literall energy/magic.

And Sans can still teleport to avoid attacks due to blood lust because his teleport works like your normal everyday teleport. And he can also just forcefully teleport Tim into blaster fire because nothing shows that he can't do that. Tim would have to react incredibly quickly to be able to avoid something like that.

And I'll say right now, Tim hasn't fought anything that could destroy him within a second or two of hitting him. He may not expect it at first and be careless.
 
Also hey him destroying Sans's attacks is cool and all but do show me what stops Sans from continuously teleporting him into a bone attack or a Gaster blaster fire just constantly.
 
It would be over by then. His normal reaction is to side step, which he would, but not expecting the sudden wave which would hit him. He wouldn't have time to react properly.

Wrong. Frisk could take a few seconds in the bones before it can kill them. And no they wouldn't. They would have more than 1 to 2 seconds. It may poison him down to his final health. But his health still has to physically been damaged to 1. Poison takes time and can't kill. A physical attack has to do it. And remember Sans doesn't start in range. So that means Tim has time to react and slice before Sans can even teleport close. And as I brought up. Sans wouldn't really expect that attack to hit like that. His weapons are strange. They had a spread shot that would easily catch Sans off guard and mow through his attacks. And yes he can hit and destroy energy. He does it in the science lab. He can destroy lasers and just blasts from machines that are energy.

And you seem to think Sans can react the same. But then use this argument. Tim gets the first attack. Sans doesn't start in range where Tim does and the first attack is all he needs. If we talk about it like both one shot. Well, Tim realistically gets first strike, and his attacks are far more likely to hit sans.

Tim is not reckless or careless. He isn't gonna let himself be hit.


And to answer that bottom one. He attacks first, and his range is longer. And his attacks far more likely to hit first.!
 
That's his normal reaction. This is his bloodlusted "I must win and not die" Reaction, which is to teleport out of the way of an attack.

Frisk has amazing soul resistance however. Don't you remember? We talked about this. Frisk can resist soul destruction at that point becuase of determination and the insane amounts of LV they have make them less damaged. Tim is not Frisk, as he is from a different verse that has different rules compared to Tim. He wouldn't be able to survive. And that thing about the poison is still gonna bite Tim in the ass becuase by the time he's down to 1 hp he's gonna be weak.

Also id recommend you start sans at least sort of in range. Becuase right now you're saying that whatever sans does gets destroyed and he can't even get into attacking range without getting one shot which is sort of textbook definition of a stomp tbh.

Also I dunno man I watched Home Improvement he seemed pretty reckless.
 
Honestly i think Tim should take it, tje points people have made for him make so much more sense. Plus sans has been known to tire out and if he has to deal with tims barrage of random ass weapons then sans is gonna get tired out earlier then usual.
 
No. that isn't how that reaction works. He needs to understand what happened before he can react. If he didn't expect a wave of energy suddenly hitting him, that's gonna surprise him. We can't assume he reacts faster cause teleportation. That's not how that works

Frisk from the Pacifist Route. Not Genocide. And they don't resist soul destruction. They literally just come back. We see their soul destroyed. So that doesn't work. This Tim fights and kills a lot in his game. If we go by the LV. His LV would be extremely high. And wrong also. Even when Tim is almost dead in game. Doesn't effect his power to the slightest. Doesn't effect his stamina. And doesn't work here

And Sans is getting blood lusted. I'm not gonna make it that unfair and give him distance advantage. That's what would be unfair and just making Sans win. Bloodlusted Sans is really iffy on its own since I didn't do the same to Tim.

This is the Video game. Show isn't canon to this at all. To the slightest. Here he is fighting with giant dinosaurs, Vampires, and mummies and such. And turned his tools into some deadly weapons. Very different canon.
 
Except suddenly Tim can react to sans' ranged attacks and Sans can't react to Tim's? Lovely. The projectile has to travel some distance. More than enough time for Sans to see it coming at him.

It literally says resistance to soul manipulation on Frisk's profile so I don't know where you're getting the idea that genocide Frisk just doesn't have either determination or doesn't have soul resistance. Either way Tim doesn't resist getting his soul ******* destroyed with one attack. And also we don't just give Tim LV. That's not how that works, because he doesn't come from Indertale and that's an Undertale specific stat and verse equalization can't just do that. You can't just say that Tim has similar soul resistance to Frisk.

I don't know why you're tryig to apply undertale mechanics to Tim
 
Also I'll say this right now. In the genocide route it takes like four seconds to kill Frisk completely, and that Frisk has 92 hp. The poison goes down faster the more you get hit I believe.

And again, that's Frisk with 92 health. And Frisk only has that health becuase of the amount of in universe LV they have. We'd have to assume Tim has twenty HP becuase he doesn't have LV. His heath goes down so ******* fast it's not funny

Also maybe different canon but same character.
 
Sans could react. If he expected them. But his attacks are surprising. That's the different. Sans attacks are at least under stable looking weapons. Even looking at a faster it looks like a weapon. And all things he has sealed similar things with. Heck, he dealers with rockets that go after him. But Sans hasn't dealed with a weapon like nail gun that spread shots fired. Or a giant wave making chainsaw. And he has more time to react from a distance. But if he is a distance away. Same applies for Tim. And we already discussed Sans is probably gonna teleport up closer. Which is what's gonna ultimately take him down more times.

Frisk does have determination in both. But This frisk is a different frisk with different levels and such. Genocide frisk does things Pacifist frisk can't. Same other way. Soul resistance I see coming from Asiels fight. And No. wrong. Simply wrong. That's not how Adan's fights have ever went. It's seem that Sans only damages. Not one shots. Sans does not one shot.

Doesn't mean you should consider what they do the same. That's not a fair assumption to the slightest. These two characters are vastly different. I promise the Show Tim couldn't make a flamethrower out of his Blow torch or his other wacky weapons. He is vastly smarter.
 
Buttersamuri said:
No. that isn't how that reaction works. He needs to understand what happened before he can react. If he didn't expect a wave of energy suddenly hitting him, that's gonna surprise him. We can't assume he reacts faster cause teleportation. That's not how that works

Frisk from the Pacifist Route. Not Genocide. And they don't resist soul destruction. They literally just come back. We see their soul destroyed. So that doesn't work. This Tim fights and kills a lot in his game. If we go by the LV. His LV would be extremely high. And wrong also. Even when Tim is almost dead in game. Doesn't effect his power to the slightest. Doesn't effect his stamina. And doesn't work here

And Sans is getting blood lusted. I'm not gonna make it that unfair and give him distance advantage. That's what would be unfair and just making Sans win. Bloodlusted Sans is really iffy on its own since I didn't do the same to Tim.

This is the Video game. Show isn't canon to this at all. To the slightest. Here he is fighting with giant dinosaurs, Vampires, and mummies and such. And turned his tools into some deadly weapons. Very different canon.
Click to expand...
NO.

Applying LVL to non-Undertale characters is literally 100% game mechanics.

Sans should take this, unless anyone can provide evidence of Tim surviving danmaku or having very potent soul manip resistance.
 
Sans can't put him in Danmaku if His attacks is a literally wave of energy that would consume all of Sans attacks.
 
Buttersamuri said:
Sans can't put him in Danmaku if His attacks is a literally wave of energy that would consume all of Sans attacks.
Click to expand...
Sans' attacks would spawn from right below Tim, unless you're implying he shoots rays out of his ass.
 
His attacks aren't immediate, Tim Would have time to react and dodge, and Sans is at a distance. Sans can't immediately open with that cause he isn't in range. Where Tim is in range. And he counters with grappling hook. Which also is far stronger than Sans gravity manipulation
 
Buttersamuri said:
His attacks aren't immediate and he is at a distance. Sans can't immediately open with that cause he isn't in range. And he counters with grappling hook. Which also is far stronger than Sans gravity manipulation
Click to expand...
As someone who's played Undertale,

His attacks are pretty damn quick, and he can easily teleport around attacks.

And... how? A grappling hook means nothing when he can break it with bones. Or grab it and fling it around. Contrary to popular belief, an item having high lifting strength doesn't mean it's immune to gravity.
 
Let me repeat how in undertale you can literally attack with a notebook a toy knife and other such things. Monsters attack via ******* plane bombing, Spears that can shoot outta the ground and fly, waves of fire, electricity, miniature versions of themselves and all kinds of whacky shit. Undertale is ******* whacky dude. What the hell do you mean something out of place will put him off guard?

Sans isn't gonna teleport just within range and at that point the dude gets Danmaku'd into oblivion becuase he hasn't dealt with those attacks before so he wouldn't exactly know how to react before he dies due to his non-resistance to soul manipulation. He's barely even have time to react before being stabbed with so many bones and shot with so many Gaster blasters that he's fonna be Dead. He can't stop four Gaster blasters at once, or a wave of bones coming out of the ground. He can't do it all a time once man. To think that he can is absurd to the major degree.

Tim has no soul resistance, no experience with Danmaku, and doesn't know that in essentially one or two hits he's a dead man. He has nothing to answer to being teleported into an attack, can't just spin like a beyblade for all eternity either, and can't combat with something that destroys his soul. It's absurd and you can't jsut say "wrong" to my points.

Also this Tim May be smarter but that doesn't mean he has a completely different personality and you can't just assume that they do. If he acts similar enough to the show version with the key difference jsut being that he's smart? Yes, he's just the show but smarter. Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it acts like a duck.
 
Ok. So. Tim has reacted and out ran rockets on foot. Tim is really fast

And simple. Just cause you change the gravity of Tim. His grappling hook is still pulling him with more force. If a bullet is flying and gravity increases a bit. It may effect the bullet a bit, but it isn't pulling it to the ground. Tim's grappling hook is able to pull him away better than Sans can pull him down.
 
Buttersamuri said:
Ok. So. Tim has reacted and out ran rockets on foot. Tim is really fast

And simple. Just cause you change the gravity of Tim. His grappling hook is still pulling him with more force. If a bullet is flying and gravity increases a bit. It may effect the bullet a bit, but it isn't pulling it to the ground. Tim's grappling hook is able to pull him away better than Sans can pull him down.
Click to expand...
Speed equal.

Also, gravity on the weapon, as it's flying. Not to mention, bones can dislodge it, or break it...
 
Speed is equalized my dude the speed of Tim means nothing.

Also I don't think Tim can outdo gravity as a force. Becuase it's not sans pulling him down. It's literally just sans changing how his personal gravity works
 
Lifting Strength only really helps if there's something to apply force against.

If you shoot a grappling hook into the air, and it's slammed into the ground instantly, no dice. It can't lift you up since it has nothing to apply force against.

If I'm the most muscular man in the world and I jump off a cliff, I fall. Without something to hold and apply force to, you're going to ******* fall and die.
 
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