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Mahito VS Sans • (0-0-0)

 
Arkenis said:
Yeah. The only thing that page shows was esp for feeling emotions and hearts, Cursed spirits have
Click to expand...
What the hell are you talking about?

I just showed that Sans has some kind of soul resistance, since you said he didnt...
 
ShionAH said:
What the hell are you talking about?

I just showed that Sans has some kind of soul resistance, since you said he didnt...
Click to expand...
Lol, my fault, I read it wrong thought you responded to the seeing Mahito thing.

But yeah even the soul manip listed isn't factoring in what Mahito's soul manip does here,
  • SOUL Manipulation: As the body of the monsters is made of magic and directly linked to their SOUL, they should be able to take SOUL attacks as physical ones.
Mahito's soul manip isn't simply an attack of the soul, he's transmuting it here, something Sans doesn't have resistance to for his soul.
 
Arkenis said:
But yeah even the soul manip listed isn't factoring in what Mahito's soul manip does here,
  • SOUL Manipulation: As the body of the monsters is made of magic and directly linked to their SOUL, they should be able to take SOUL attacks as physical ones.
Mahito's soul manip isn't simply an attack of the soul, he's transmuting it here, something Sans doesn't have resistance to for his soul.
Click to expand...
I am not talking about Mahito.

You said Sans doesnt resist anything about Soul Manipulation, I proved you wrong. Simple.

Its still a stomp since Mahito is seemingly invisible
 
Sans would turn to paste in one hit with or without resistance lol His resistance is featless because he still dies in any hit of UT, and his tier is lower. Mahito folds him. Perhaps literally with self-embodiment of play dough.
 
StrymULTRA said:
His defense is 1, meaning that he's stronger than 0 DEF guys like Frisk or Moldsmal. Stop spreading misinformation.
Click to expand...
First you show me one instance of Sans tanking any attack when he literally has a description of being the weakest and only 1 HP, then come back here and tell me that my statement is misinformation.
 
I'm not gonna weigh in on any of the bizarre CM/AE bullshit thats going on in this thread and get straight to the point. Mahito wins, but its not really fair.

  • Sans doesn't have any simple way of seeing Mahito. I would argue that NPI would allow for it but I don't know the details of how this works. For now I'm going to say he can see Mahito and his attacks can interact with him. I don't want to debate this point because if Sans can't see Mahito its an instant stomp, so for the sake of this discussion I'm going to assume he can.
  • The stats here are incredibly mismatched. Sans' wall level AP and durability vs Mahito's multi city block+ makes for a clear mismatch
  • While it is cool that Sans' attacks can damage Mahito's soul, this goes both ways. Wall-level damage against Mahito's soul is basically nothing, and Mahito can kill Sans with a single touch. Yes, I know he has resistance to Soul Manipulation, but we've seen Mahito transfigure sorcerers who resisted the effect (Nanami, Nobara and Todo didn't get fully transfigured like Junpei did in the times they were touched) and that weakening an opponent before transfiguring them is a way to bypass this
  • Mahito has a much larger kit. None of Sans' attacks do any significant damage, so I can't see a world where Polymorphic Soul Isomer and Soul Multiplicity are at all hindered by gaster blasters or bone attacks. The telekinesis might be a bit more challenging as Sans wins in lifting strength with TK, but the amount of things Mahito can throw or summon to overwhelm Sans would still net him a win.
  • I will admit I don't know how KR would impact this fight so I've left it out of my comment for now. Might re-evaluate that later

TLDR: Its a bit of a mismatch, but not entirely a complete stomp
 
StrymULTRA said:
HP values for monsters aren't canon.
Click to expand...
You'd bring up a difference of 1 point in stats (DEF at that) to disregard the self-evident lore of weakest monster, but when it doesn't help the argument that you are making you disregard HP impact in battles by claiming not-canon instead. Not the most productive hill to want your argument to die on, because it doesn't disprove my point.

Even playing by your rules and examples, the Moldsmal that is a ruins-dweller no name still has 6 ATK compared to Sans's 1 ATK and 1 DEF. Moldsmal doesn't take 1 damage if you attack it with a level 1 Frisk. First Froggit doesn't either, it dies in one hit. It's even worse for Sans because on top of the stats there's a script to the fight where he dies in one hit. Someone could go as far as modding the game for him to lose zero HP and he'd still die.

When Sans's only saving grace is the single point of difference in DEF, characters with similar DEF can still die just as easily to a level 1 Frisk and Sans has never facetanked anything, at this point your words are plain nitpicking.
 
  • Self evident lore of the weakest monster
  • Snowdrake's mother exist
  • Sans is not even called "weakest" but "easiest"
Ok
 
First it was nitpicking and now it's semantics. Sure Strym, whichever hill you want your arguments to die on is yours to choose.
 
I mean, Sans' durability is not 10-C but 9-B, so unless you wanna try to argue that Sans dies from literally even a spit on his face, then that's not going to fly.

The profile says that he can tank soul attacks, so shut it, please.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I mean, Sans' durability is not 10-C but 9-B, so unless you wanna try to argue that Sans dies from literally even a spit on his face, then that's not going to fly.
Click to expand...
Making strawmanning the sequel to nitpicking, you are now taking my statements to a logical extreme that I never argued for. Sans wouldn't die to a spit or a breeze, but Mahito or anyone with similar stats to what early Frisk/enemies in UT can dish out (which...are lower than Mahito's...) would turn him to paste if they hit.
StrymULTRA said:
The profile says that he can tank soul attacks
Click to expand...
Physiology-granted resistance would exist but only scale to his own feats with it, of which there are none so it's the most basic. He's also just as featless when it comes to tanking attacks as he was when we started this conversation. Doesn't help also that his soul resistance has got nothing to say against a character with better potency in everything, that can auto-hit with DE and transmutate the soul.
StrymULTRA said:
so shut it, please.
Click to expand...
Classic Strym.
 
Plus the whole "Sans is meant to die in one hit" is dumb when:
  1. Snowdrake's mother has -5 DEF and still tanks Frisk's attacks.
  2. His only fight is with someone who one shots even people with far greater DEF.
Aka using data is foolish, unless you wanna argue that Asgore is more durable than Toriel.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Plus the whole "Sans is meant to die in one hit" is dumb when
Click to expand...
I think that idea comes from the data that shows Sans has 1 HP

Even though there are several dumb stuff in the data that makes the canonity of it very hard to prove...Gaster > Asriel lmao
 
StrymULTRA said:
Tell me you've never played Undertale without telling me you never played Undertale.
Click to expand...
I've played Undertale, but if the profile says wall level, its wall level. I don't agree with that but I'm also not about to start a CRM about Sans on this website.
 
Assuming Sans can't see Mahito, Mahito just waltzes up to Sans, touches him, and turns him into a puddle


Asusming Sans CAN see Mahito:

Sans's soul isn't particularly durable in any sense of the word, as he's considered the weakest monster. Most of his damage comes from the fact that 1. He attacks multiple times in a row, and 2. his opponent gets affected by KARMA, which is increased depending on your EXP and LV. Meaning Mahito can 1 shot him with anything

Mahito most likely has comparable amounts of LV to the likes of Lv.19 Frisk considering how many people he's killed, but he's shown to be able to take a colossal amount of punishment, as he was getting beat down by Yuji and took multiple Black Flashes even before he used Instant Spirit Body of Distorted Killing. This, combined with the sheer insanity/size/AOE of his transfiguration abilities, means he should be able to tag Sans at least once before he dies. His Transfigured Humans might help him distract Sans long enough for him to get a hit in, or they just hit Sans themselves and 1 shot him.
 
Why tf are we having this debate if one side said "um but Sans can't see him" like a dozen times and there's no counter? Are we living in a simulation?
 
noninho said:
How exactly is Sans' NPI working and why is it not enough for him to ser Mahito?
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, prolly cause Mahito's invisibility stems from a far different vein. Curses are invisible because they exist in a completely isolated spectrum of light (They don't exist within the visible spectrum at all. I.e., not in the visible spectrum, not in the microwave spectrum, not in the ultra violet spectrum, etc.).

That's my guess anyways. NPI doesn't mean you can see through any form of invisibility after all.
 
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