Sans undertale vs Touma Kamijou (speed equalized, so not a stomp)

[Aurasuke]

So obviously Sans is way superior to Touma Kamijou in speed DC etc.

But who would win in a fight if speed was equalized to Kamijou's level, (including attack speed of things like beams but he can still make those attacks), and Sans teleportation is restricted.

And no, Kamijou has never killed anyone.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Imagine Breaker lol

 

[Aurasuke]

Basically what would happen if Imagine breaker fought against someone who kill him in one move but also lose to him in one hit.

 

[Aurasuke]

Wow, no one even knows about the main character of index. They only know accelerator >.>

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

If i'm not mistaken. Image Breaker is basically a back-up copy of the universe where everything is how it should be.


That's why it always counter both espers and wizards. Because both powers are not natural in humans. Technically talking. I don't know if it would affect Sans. Sans obviously is doing something that monster shouldn't (mess with time) but he is doing that not with his own "power" but with devices such as the Gaster Blasters. I also don't think that it could stop, say, the soul manipulation because that's natural for monsters.

Honestly i need to think about this.

 

[Aurasuke]

Well it's called a backup, but that isn't it's only property. Much of about imagine breaker is unknown and it has the ability to cancel out all supernatural powers.

If you're saying that by Sans being a different creature makese him immune to imagine breaker, I doubt that. Imagine breaker takes down any form of supernatural ability, including things like giant moving golems, and strings that look like animals. It even broke Othinius's Gungnir spear which she used to rewrite over a billion universes.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

No. I'm saying that Imagine Breaker, as its name says. Destroy ilusions. Things that are unnatural for the universe. Its the exact opposite of Fiamma's Holy Right. An ability that makes the impossible possible and create miracles. Imagine Breaker would be useless against someone who is perfectly normal. That's why i'm saying that i'm having a bad time thinking about how it would affect Sans. Since what he does that is not natural for monsters isn't his "own" power. And the powers that he really have (soul manipulation) are innates for monsters. Therefore it doesn't go against the normal in the universe.

 

[Aurasuke]

Since when are monsters even natural to begin with? Kamijou said that if he touched Kazikiri she would dissapear. She's a being created by an AIM field, sure she may be a normal being made of AIM fields, but that isn't really normally.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Since when are monsters even natural to begin with?

In Undertale, monsters are like...one of the most natural things, out there. They're just as natural as humans, only they're made of far more magic than physical atoms and such.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Monsters. At least how Undertale treats them. Are normal for the world. Since the begging there were always two races: Humans and Monsters. I don't see how is that comparable to Kazikiri. Saying that Monsters are unnatural for the universe would be the equivalent of saying that humans are unnatural for the universe.

 

[Aurasuke]

^Yeah but you see Imagine breaker's never fully explained. It's called the fullfillment of wishes of Magicians and a reference point of the world, but it's also more than that. There's also what lies beyond imagine breaker, and the ultimate purpose of imagine breaker that would let even the Magic Gods to want to see it for their gains. It's way to ambiguous to simply state that it's just restores things in their normal state.

With cross universes, we should just assume that it works, it's like the whole Naruto Chakra Argument with Genjutsu.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Then again. Sans, at least partially has nothing unnatural in him or not normal in him. You are saying that since monsters don't exists in To Aru they are not normal to the universe. Which is not true. imagine breaker works so well against Espers and Wizards because their powers are not normal for humans. Against a normal human Imagine Breaker has nothing to do, because they are already in their "normal" state.

 

[Aurasuke]

No, I'm just saying that we equalize the universes for this battle. It's like how the argument Genjutsu only works on Naruto characters, or how bleach characters can only be seen by spiritual aware. The argument you present here is even more groundless and is based off a misinterpretation of the series.

With your logic esper powers are also natural as they are scientific, magic is not because it warps reality. There's very little basis in your argument by simply stating that monsters are natural in their universe. Sure they may be, but the word natural doesn't quite have a definition like that. Espers are natural in academy city. It's scientifc thus natural. Obvious the author intended to use all supernatural powers that correlate with supernatural compared to the real world.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

"No, I'm just saying that we equalize the universes for this battle"

Since when we weren't doing that...?

"It's like how the argument Genjutsu only works on Naruto characters, or how bleach characters can only be seen by spiritual aware. The argument you present here is even more groundless and is based off a misinterpretation of the series. "

Exactly how? Imagine Breaker specifically erase supernatural things that are not natural. Monsters, by all means. Are natural to the universe. Or you will say that a tiger would be affected by Imagine Breaker? because tigers and monsters are equally normal

"With your logic esper powers are also natural as they are scientific, magic is not because it warps reality. There's very little basis in your argument by simply stating that monsters are natural in their universe. Sure they may be, but the word natural doesn't quite have a definition like that. Espers are natural in academy city. It's scientifc thus natural. Obvious the author intended to use all supernatural powers that correlate with supernatural compared to the real world. "

Either you are highly misinterpretating how Imagine Breaker works or what "natural" is.

Espers and wizards are both unnatural to the universe because normal humans are not meant to use science nor magic to alter themselves to that degree. That's why Imagine Breaker negate their powers. Because it turns them "normal" to the universe. Simply as that. No, Espers are not natural to Academy City nor the universe because. AS humans are designed. They are not meant to have that kind of power. At least at the eyes of the natural order of the universe. Monsters are natural to the universe to have that kind of power because they are made of magic itself. Contrary to both espers and wizards who are going against what their race is suposse to be.

 

[Aurasuke]

Do you even read Naruto or Bleach? Or maybe the one pice Logia intagibility and Haki argument?

In naruto use genjutsu to cast illusions on others. However it requires controlling their Chakra which is only in Naruto. In bleach characters with spirital powers can see Death Gods or shinigami, no one else can. That means Goku can't see Ichigo and Ichigo can basically take all the time he wants to kill him.

Haki is required to touch Logia characters, which doesn't exist in any other fiction? That's why we equalize them. Got it?

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Do you even read Naruto or Bleach? Or maybe the one pice Logia intagibility and Haki argument?
In naruto use genjutsu to cast illusions on others. However it requires controlling their Chakra which is only in Naruto. In bleach characters with spirital powers can see Death Gods or shinigami, no one else can. That means Goku can't see Ichigo and Ichigo can basically take all the time he wants to kill him.

Haki is required to touch Logia characters, which doesn't exist in any other fiction? That's why we equalize them. Got it?

Why are you still telling me this? i've been doing that since post 1. If i weren't doing that this wouldn't even be a battle, since Sans would be "strange" or "unnatural" to the Imagine Breaker and therefore Touma would only need touching him to kill him instantly

 

[Aurasuke]

The oppsite is also true, Sans's AP hasn't changed. Kamijou is a high school boy. He can be literally killed by a gun.