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Samus Aran vs Ben Tennyson.

Why would she take herself out? Just because she can freeze a planet doesn't mean she's freezing herself, not how that works. If ya meant oxygen, suit provides that, considering water and space pose no problem.


>using time based techniques when time is no longer moving.

That's why it makes zero sense, same reason why we dont assume Kars can use MIH to accelerate time while time is stopped.

Anyway, probably gonna crash soon, been up all night.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Why would she take herself out? Just because she can freeze a planet doesn't mean she's freezing herself, not how that works.
If ya meant oxygen, suit provides that, considering water and space pose no problem.


>using time based techniques when time is no longer moving.

That's why it makes zero sense, same reason why we dont assume Kars can use MIH to accelerate time while time is stopped.

Anyway, probably gonna crash soon, been up all night.
Click to expand...
No, I mean if she's gonna freeze the planet to take Ben out doesn't that mean she'd get frozen too because they're on the same planet?

Yeah, ok I don't really get time powers so I'm just going off of what I can see in the show, but Ben does't have to freeze time, he can just slow it down to where he can still tag samus and time still flows.

Alright, I need to sleep too, so you wanna end it here and agree to disagree? I mean, we're kinda going around in circles though it's been fun
 
Probably not, and just because ice beam has that range doesnt mean she cant focus it or control the AOE.

Slowing down time would work but then she can do something like frag the area with an omnidirectional blast unless there in like cqc range. take him out too and force an inconclusive since he cant switch if he's attacking or absorb the projectiles with power beam and shoot them back.

If ya can prove he can do time based attacks in time stop that's a different matter though.

I'm fine with stopping for now.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Probably not, and just because ice beam has that range doesnt mean she cant focus it or control the AOE.
Slowing down time would work but then she can do something like frag the area with an omnidirectional blast unless there in like cqc range. take him out too and force an inconclusive since he cant switch if he's attacking or absorb the projectiles with power beam and shoot them back.

If ya can prove he can do time based attacks in time stop that's a different matter though.

I'm fine with stopping for now.
Click to expand...
If she focuses it Ben dodges, if the AOE still spreads it'll literally be the OV finale v2 except instead of the big bang expanding it'd just be an expanding ice beam

if he slows down time she won't be able to move fast enough to frag the area. She'd be aged to dust or time BFR'd before she could try/carry it out fully. Has she ever been shown to be able to absorb time rays that age you to dust/freeze you in time?

No, Clockwork doesn't have enough appearances for us to get a full scope of his power, but it wouldn't be farfetched to think that he could still send her to another timeline despite freezing time.

He's also got pretty good range too I guess if that helps

https://scontent-kut2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=e0281115fe12213514f7bb6862584ad2&oe=59D59B95

Feel free to respond whenever you want
 
Sge can still have the aOE be huge.


Depends on how much he slow down time, even with time slow its still feasible she could frag the area, once it happens itll still hurt him if he touches it regardless of how fast the explosion is moving.

If it's a moving projectile she absorb it with power beam, at the very least itd prevent it from doing anything to her herself.

Sorry man but unless he shows stuff like aging via time+time stop or time rrwind+time stop, seemingliy incompatible powers, wuthoutbdoing so ir being stated he can do so it wont count. Bfr maybe, depends how but the rest needs statements or feats.

@Neo

Yeah youre on your own, way to much has been brought up, discussed, debated and more, i wouldnt know where to begin and id probably miss stuff.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Sge can still have the aOE be huge.

Depends on how much he slow down time, even with time slow its still feasible she could frag the area, once it happens itll still hurt him if he touches it regardless of how fast the explosion is moving.

If it's a moving projectile she absorb it with power beam, at the very least itd prevent it from doing anything to her herself.

Sorry man but unless he shows stuff like aging via time+time stop or time rrwind+time stop, seemingliy incompatible powers, wuthoutbdoing so ir being stated he can do so it wont count. Bfr maybe, depends how but the rest needs statements or feats.

@Neo

Yeah youre on your own, way to much has been brought up, discussed, debated and more, i wouldnt know where to begin and id probably miss stuff.
Click to expand...
He can stop time and he can slow down time. It's not too farfetched to think that he could slow time down to near time stop levels but not enough to make time completely stop. If he has enough control to stop time I don't see why he can't 'almost' stop it. Anyway, his time powers work like this.

Clockwork can slow down time around himself. This makes everything seem slower to him. So he while Samus is still moving properly, time around Ben slows down, which means he can still very easily reverse time around Samus, BFR her, etc.

The power beam absorbing CW's time beam seems like an NLF. If it's only been shown absorbing standard attack type beams it also needs to have feats that show it can absorb conceptual-ish attacks (not saying CW has conceptual manip, just like, well time is a concept right?) I mean basically absorbing attacks that hurt you from a physical like fire or explosions is different than absorbing attacks that accelerates your life span a couple hundred years.
 
He needs feats to show he has such precision in doing so, the slowest hes slowed down time is his best unless other wise stated.

The second part makes no sense, if he slows down time but Samus is moving properly he didn't slow down time? Show me an example since I'm a bit lost there.

>standard attack >phazon Not really, but if they're projectiles and waves, they should be bound to the same attributes, at the very least she can passively suck them in to her power beam to avoid them touching her curcumventing the current problem.

On a side note literally everything is a concept.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
He needs feats to show he has such precision in doing so, the slowest hes slowed down time is his best unless other wise stated.
The second part makes no sense, if he slows down time but Samus is moving properly he didn't slow down time? Show me an example since I'm a bit lost there.

>standard attack >phazon Not really, but if they're projectiles and waves, they should be bound to the same attributes, at the very least she can passively suck them in to her power beam to avoid them touching her curcumventing the current problem.

On a side note literally everything is a concept.
Click to expand...
Ok, so he just slows down time around himself. In an OV episode when Ben first discovers this ability, everything turns green and clockwork starts walking through slowed down pipes being thrown around. It appears as if he's just slowed down time, however when we see Rook's perspective, everything is moving normally while Clockwork is moving at XLR8 class speeds all of a sudden. So Clockwork kinda like slowed down time only for himself so he perceives everything as slowed down but time in the real world isn't slowed down which is why Rook and the squid monster they were fighting weren't slowed down when we see get out of Ben's POV (well this is if I'm understanding correctly)

Eh, I can't buy it. She's absorbed things like explosions and stuff that can be blocked and tanked and stuff, whereas this literally bypasses that. If she were to absorb it, it would likely still affect her. Or, he could just do the thing I showed in the picture (his time manip spread throughout the planet. If he could just do that around the town but change the effect of the time field from 'bringing back people from being erased from the universe' to 'age her to dust' or 'send her to another timeline' it could work.

Well, even if she did end up somehow being able to blow something up despite Clockwork's ability, he could proceed to just reverse time to where she didn't do that (Based on the WOG I provided, the scene with him and AU Ben, his range and :

Quoting time:

No Watch Ben : Hey! Woah! Who's this?!

Ben 10,000 : Clockwork. He's got time powers. Speed up, slow down, forward, back..)

Tbh I think if he just slowed down time around himself he could very easily do this. If he stops time, how come he won't be able to age her to dust, doesn't seem very incompatible to me?
 
She used it to absorb phazon into her power beam, (something tgat would if killed her if it actually touched her) and fire it back, it wouldnt effect her, its on her profile, at best itd effect a beam shot but wont do anything to her. And at the very least itd still draw in his time beams away from her.

The first part seems kinda counterproductive if he slows himself down.

Yeah no, think about it this way, how do you age something if time is stopped? Time is stopped it no longer flows, everything is in entropy, she cant age as that requires time to be moving.

Can ya provide a statement that he can create an AOE field that has those properties opposed to whats been shown. Because that kinda defeats the purpose of the beams? Why use a beam when ya can just do an aoe thing?
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
She used it to absorb phazon into her power beam, (something tgat would if killed her if it actually touched her) and fire it back, it wouldnt effect her, its on her profile, at best itd effect a beam shot but wont do anything to her. And at the very least itd still draw in his time beams away from her.
The first part seems kinda counterproductive if he slows himself down.

Yeah no, think about it this way, how do you age something if time is stopped? Time is stopped it no longer flows, everything is in entropy, she cant age as that requires time to be moving.

Can ya provide a statement that he can create an AOE field that has those properties opposed to whats been shown. Because that kinda defeats the purpose of the beams? Why use a beam when ya can just do an aoe thing?
Click to expand...
No, it isn't counterproductive. Here's the vid

I mean, he can change the properties of his beams like its nothing. He can de-age people, anchor someone back to a timeline (whatever that means), send them to other timelines, restore people from being erased from reality, reverse time around a specific individual, and maybe one or two more things I can't recall off the top of my head

If he can shoot the same beam but change its effects, I don't see why he couldn't do that AOE thing but just change the effects of it.

Ben doesn't really use CW in combat enough to warrant him using his time beams all that much, so when he does appear he doesn't really need to use them. Well that, and usually in combat speed isn't equalized, and it takes a little longer to do that than to just blast someone
 
But since this is in character, and you just stated doesn't use clockwork that often, it's highly unlikely he will use clockwork. If this was bloodlusted, or if they had knowledge of each other, I could easily give this to Ben, but it isn't, and Ben would rather do Ben stuff and transform into a favorite or one that fits the immidiate situation, such as an anti-machine alien, due to her robotic look. It is possible he could change to Clockwork as the fight continues, but by then the fight would most likely be over if he was forced to change his alien.
 
This thread has kinda devolved into a confusing mess imo. The mods should just mark this as inconclusive and be done with it, its not really going anywhere. I never expected it to go on for this long.
 
It is kinda messy, but it seems overall that most of the votes on Ben's side were debunked someway or another, so it wouldn't end with inconclusive.
 
I cooould go over every point in the entire thread that was brought up, for both samus and Ben, and then all the new people could just scroll to the bottom and decide based on those points. Can't guarentee I'd get everything though.
 
This thread is almost impossable to me to undestand.

I would rather prefer start a new thread and try to take all the point a little bit better, instead of let open this mess.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Samus' 7-A key is getting upgraded to 6-C.
Click to expand...
If so, then that makes this whole thread void since thats what happens when a character gets up/downgraded.. We can't really make any Ben vs Samus battle that doesn't result in a stomp for either side after that.
 
Such a long thread all for no real result.... oh well. This makes me wonder though, with all her hax. Samus seems like a good match for a Robloxian.
 
Guys, firstly we weren't debating Samus vs Clockwork under the assumption that Ben would use him right off the bat, we were debating it under the assumption that the watch's life saving failsafe would make Ben Clockwork after Samus sends an instakill his way.

What we've established is that Samus can get most of Ben's forms due to her ratings not actually belonging in tier 7 at all, and the only one that stands a chance AFAIK is Clockwork, which he will become thanks to the LSF.

Other than that, yeah this debate isn't going anywhere, but it was fun debating against such a powerful character anyways, and it opened my eyes about Samus's power level too. Thanks for the fun @TheJ-ManRequiem
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Well the problem now is, Samus isn't tier 7 anymore even her weakest suit is tier 6 now.
But yeah, you're right there.
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn't say that durability ignoring time rays would be rendered null because she's bumped up a tier, since her tier 6 feats were already being used in this debate. However, her moving up a tier makes it so that Ben's other forms definitely don't stand a chance anymore, so the fight would still be instakill into LSF into Samus vs Clockwork

And that debate had us going in complete circles xD
 
Not really, if her base Ap gets upgraded to tier 6 in her weakest suit, everything else will scale as her weakest attack is getting scaled to that due to weakened Ridley in base performing the feat.

Plus there's other things being discussed, plenty of additions.

I linked the thread above if ya wanna check it out.

But at that point its not Ben vs Samus.

It's a chronsapien vs samus.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Not really, if her base Ap gets upgraded to tier 6 in her weakest suit, everything else will scale as her weakest attack is getting scaled to that due to weakened Ridley in base performing the feat.
Plus there's other things being discussed, plenty of additions.

I linked the thread above if ya wanna check it out.

But at that point its not Ben vs Samus.

It's a chronsapien vs samus.
Click to expand...
Yeah but it still kinda ignores durability, which is why it could effect a being that was leagues above it in terms of power if you excluded time manipulation

Not really, it's Ben as a Chronosapien vs Samus, that's the whole point of his power. If were to pick ghostfreak while fighting against Danny Phantom it would also just be a Necrofriggian vs Danny. The omnitrix was made to turn its wearer into different lifeforms to understand them better.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Maybe but there's still Samus' shielding (does the timerays phase through objects?)
Click to expand...
Not sure but he'd be able to reverse time around the shield to where it wasn't activated

20:49-21:22

guess this might count as phasing? Not too sure though

Cw time phase


Also Ghostfreak isn't a necrofriggian so my bad on the brainfart
 
I honestly dont understand what youre trying to say.

Reverse time around the shield? That's not effecting the shield then.

Also thats not phasing, phasing means you can essentialy go through stuff, like a ghost to put it simply.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
I honestly dont understand what youre trying to say.
Reverse time around the shield? That's not effecting the shield then.

Also thats not phasing, phasing means you can essentialy go through stuff, like a ghost to put it simply.
Click to expand...
Watch the video I posted. He can wind Samus back in time to where she didn't activate the shield. If she tries to put up the shield against that beam, he'll just reverse time around that shield back to where it wasn't activated.

I get what phasing is, that one was just a question since it looked like it was going through DH
 
Can he do that in slowed or stopped time?

Because in that instance, that coukd easily be dodged (even there, that dude should of dodged, he seen it coming).
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Can he do that in slowed or stopped time?
Because in that instance, that coukd easily be dodged (even there, that dude should of dodged, he seen it coming).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I still don't particularly get why time moves don't work in a time stop, but as long as time flows they should work, so that move should work in slowed time

As for not dodging, like the brainstorm vs the rooters feat, it was likely just slowed down to show us the blast animation, as Diamondhead has kept up with some pretty speedy guys.
 
Because time is stopped.

You cant slow down time, speed up time or any of that while time itself is stopped, the flow of time is no longer moving l, if you could do thst it wouldnt really be stopped time.

Problem with that is, if time's stopped he can still be hit by Samus then, she'd just need to drop a huge AOE attack than and engulf both of them.

Depends on how much time gets slowed down.
 
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