Sally Acorn Vs Asriel Dreemurr

[Theuser789]

Again, another false equivalency, as the Eggmobile is purely Manual and no A.I. It can only react as fast as Eggman himself. Sally and the Sword has 2 different thinking processing speed, and Sally has relied on that mind when she has used the Sword for guidance.

Wrong, Eggman has an AI, it isn't just based on his regular speed, otherwise he would have FTL reactions

Another false equivalency, as Caliburn has been shown to process the same thinking rate as Sonic himself.

You assume I meant the Sword would immeasurable in Speed Equal for thinking. No, it just would think faster than Sally.

But your entire point that it would think "faster" it's because it's faster in verse when speed isn't equal, meaning you are arguing that in order for that not to happen it wouldn't be affected by speed equal, which is where the example comes here, but here's another example, Sonic and Excalibur, would you argue Excalibur would react faster than Sonic?

When you stop using false equivalency examples to "support" you points, yes. Also, your arrogance is showing.

I am not going to respond to your snide comment because I am tired of this deadend debate, we have been argued for an entire day about absolutely nothing relevant, especially after you condeded the sword would think an unquantifible times faster than Sally (and thus Asriel), making it even less important than before

Please tell me how your point would give Sally the W, please

 

[ElixirBlue]

Wrong, Eggman has an AI, it isn't just based on his regular speed, otherwise he would have FTL reactions

I mean, he would. He lifted he arm while Sonic was going top speed. The Camera slows things down so we can perceive it.

But your entire point that it would think "faster" it's because it's faster in verse when speed isn't equal, meaning you are arguing that in order for that not to happen it wouldn't be affected by speed equal, which is where the example comes here, but here's another example, Sonic and Excalibur, would you argue Excalibur would react faster than Sonic?

Speed Equalized is so both opponents operate on the same speed as if they were sharing the same story. So not one opponent speed blitz the other.

The Sword thinking faster than Sally does not cause a speed blitz to happen.

* 1. The Sword relies on the user's speed for the swing

* 2. The Sword doesn't increase Sally's base speed with faster thinking. The Sword faster thinking than Sally doesn't cause a Speed Blitz. It counters Ariel's infinite tries.

Please tell me how your point would give Sally the W, please

Actually, this argument takes away Asriel's wincon and makes the match an incon.

 

[Daddybrawl]

I would like to note that Speed Equalized does, in fact, equalize all Speeds, including (but not limited to) Projectile Speed, Reaction Speed, and Combat Speed, including that of Equipment. Thats been accepted since the age of time.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I would like to note that Speed Equalized does, in fact, equalize all Speeds, including (but not limited to) Projectile Speed, Reaction Speed, and Combat Speed, including that of Equipment. Thats been accepted since the age of time.

So how would you approach that if hacking was a wincon but speed equalized makes the user of the tool fast enough to hack themselves?

 

[Daddybrawl]

So how would you approach that if hacking was a wincon but speed equalized makes the user of the tool fast enough to hack themselves?

Uh... I don’t know? It’s assumed the Hacking Tool can still do its job, their crap just is still affected by Speed Equal. Otherwise this is a very strange question that I don’t see how it relates to what’s happening. Are you trying to claim the Hacking Tool is too slow to hack people? This match doesn’t care about Hacking though??

 

[Daddybrawl]

Not going to work for me. We’re here to debate, not have a friendly argument. Here to prove something, and If we ‘agree to disagree’ then no conclusive argument was reached. Therefore, we spent all these hours doing diddly squat because none of us proved who would win.

 

[Theuser789]

Actually, this argument takes away Asriel's wincon and makes the match an incon.

No it doesn't, read this again

Anyways this changes absolutely none of the points brought up change what is being argued, so the sword can think fast (according to you) so what? None of the points were that it would attack before the sword could see the future, only that it would be innacurate because of Asriel abusing time travel to fix his mistakes, making the predictions wrong, nothing to do with speed

Also 100% what Brawl said, he nailed it on the head

 

[ElixirBlue]

I need more context, Elixir. I have no clue what your question is asking, lol.

What if there was a match between a living organism and a machine. The machine's weakness is a computer a distance away. Normally, the user of an A.I. tool with a consciousness would be smart enough to hack the computer on their own but their tool makes up for the time and distance it would take to get there and hack by half. Basically, instant as soon as they reached the computer.

But the machine has a passive emp, making other machines other than the computer useless, making the A.I. tool with a consciousness useless

But thanks to speed equal, the user doesn't need the A.I. tool with a consciousness to make up for speed.

 

[Daddybrawl]

What if there was a match between a living organism and a machine. The machine's weakness is a computer a distance away. Normally, the user of an A.I. tool would be smart enough to hack the computer on their own but their tool is makes up for the time and distance it would take to get there and hack by half. Basically, instant as soon as they reached the computer.

But the machine has a passive emp, making other machines other than the computer useless, making the A.I. tool useless

But thanks to speed equal, the user doesn't need the tool to make up for speed.

Well... yes. They won’t need the AI to make up for speed, correct. However, the question now becomes ‘Can the Hacker hack before the Machine kills him’, as the Machine’s speed is also equalized, and the Hacker needs to pull of a Hack vs the Machine walking up and smacking him in the face.
Not sure what this has to do with the match, though.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Well... yes. They won’t need the AI to make up for speed, correct. However, the question now becomes ‘Can the Hacker hack before the Machine kills him’, as the Machine’s speed is also equalized, and the Hacker needs to pull of a Hack vs the Machine walking up and smacking him in the face.

This is a made up scenario. All the information that exist is there in the story I created to present to you.

The machine would have won if Speed Equal didn't apply to the tool and the user being the same speed together.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Alright, so..... how is this relevant? Forgive me if I’m missing the point completely, but I don’t understand how this proves the SoA isn’t affected by Speed Equal.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Alright, so..... how is this relevant? Forgive me if I’m missing the point completely, but I don’t understand how this proves the SoA isn’t affected by Speed Equal.

Speed Equal was only made so characters don't Speed Blitz each other. Not to take away character abilities, as the tool losing it's speed importance to the user, loses it's purpose as a tool.

Speed Equalized is so both opponents operate on the same speed as if they were sharing the same story. So not one opponent speed blitz the other.

The Sword thinking faster than Sally does not cause a speed blitz to happen.

* 1. The Sword relies on the user's speed for the swing

* 2. The Sword doesn't increase Sally's base speed with faster thinking. The Sword faster thinking than Sally doesn't cause a Speed Blitz. It counters Ariel's infinite tries.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Speed Equal was only made so characters don't Speed Blitz each other.

That doesn’t change its functions, however. Equipment speeds are also affected. Can’t really pick-and-choose.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I edited.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Let’s not forget it goes as far as to equalize Omnipresence. It disallows Speed Amps, and makes Speed (an important factor in Vsmatches) equal between two non-equal opponents. It certainly does not care to spare your Abilities. The SOA is very strong without its Immeasurable speeds, so claiming it ‘loses its use’ doesn’t really make lots of sense.

 

[Theuser789]

Speed Equal was only made so characters don't Speed Blitz each other. Not to take away character abilities, as the tool losing it's speed importance to the user, loses it's purpose as a tool.

Tell that to any speedster, the SOA ability isn't to think faster than Sally, that's just a byproduct of something being faster than the other in verse

 

[Daddybrawl]

I might change to the Goat

Real quick, should this mean your vote should be removed off of the Votes for Sally? Or is this not a Vote and just a statement of consideration? I can’t tell, so I wished to confirm, sorry if I’m bothering you.

also bump

 

[Theuser789]

All the votes for Sally should be removed because Elixir (who gave the reasons people FRA) already conceded to incon several times

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Or is this not a Vote and just a statement of consideration?

It was a statement of consideration

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Asriel FRA

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nothing in Archie verse is 5D, if you disagree make a CRT

 

[StrymULTRA]

This is not accepted in this wiki yet, so make a CRT if you want to add such

 

[Theuser789]

Sally is still 3-D herself, the SOA being able to affect 5-D beings is irrelevant to what people are arguing, please read the thread

 

[Daddybrawl]

It was a statement of consideration

Alright, thank you for the clarification.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Bump

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Sally FRA (I guess)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Glad to know that you admitted that you went too far with some points lol

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Actually, change my vote to Asriel. DaddyBrawl and theuser made a good point.

 

[Greenshifter]

Hmmm after skimming through the thread. It seems the issue comes from whether or not equipment gets affected by speed equalized and whether or not that means something is a speed blitz of not. I have a similar issue and willing to create a general thread for this if necessary, I do however have an actual reason for why I separate the speed of the equipment from the character(s) in my case. I didn’t really consider the speed blitzing argument though since a speed blitz is when you, you know blitz the opponent and win the match because of that rather than use it to dodge attacks. I mean I don’t think we’re gonna give the guy from a certain magical/scientific index flack because he can calculate vectors in his redirection field much faster than he can move even in a speed equal match.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

No, the problem is that Sally's stuff would get canceled out by the save/reload

 

[Daddybrawl]

That issue was debated and resolved, Green.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

But seriously, change my vote to Asriel

 

[StrymULTRA]

Did we even stated that?

 

[Daddybrawl]

What does that have to do with the match? I have 0 clue- isn’t Solaris Omnipresent through Time with type 1 Acausality or something?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Probably. He also one-shots with any attack, so pretty much as long as his LOAD isn’t nuked he can try and catch Sally off guard and one-shot.

 

[AccelerAx]

Probably. He also one-shots with any attack, so pretty much as long as his LOAD isn’t nuked he can try and catch Sally off guard and one-shot.

But Sally could keep on power nulling or power absorbing Asriel and wouldn't it keep going on forever since Asriel wouldn't have a chance to do any of his new strategies since the power null/power absorption is thought based and also the fact that the SoA has Multiversal+ range.

 

[Greenshifter]

That issue was debated and resolved, Green.

Oh really? Whoops, what was the conclusion?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Power Null and Absorption doesn’t get rid of SAVE/LOAD due to not being Magic/Absorbable in a more common sense, and he can still catch them off-guard without their Sword of Acorns. He has literally infinite tries at this as long as Sally doesn’t start with Concept Nuking his Determination, so eventually he’s going to get it right.
He can also absorb Sally’s Soul, which isn’t something Nullifiable since it’s also not Magic.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Oh really? Whoops, what was the conclusion?

That Equipment is still affected by Speed Equal. It always has been. Guns fire at dodgable speeds, effects that normally take a press of a button... also still take just a button.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah ok, guess I’ll have to ask an exception for my case then in the future. Although the latter thing you stated seems to imply it’s not truly speed equal since buttons have electrical currents going through them and what not.