Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Some news about Time Odyssey Volume 2 collected during Jérôme Alquié's live on Pix'Perience's YouTube channel, it is mentioned that a character from Next Dimension will appear (although without having a major role) and the fact that there is no longer talk of a July release for the Japan Expo (France). There is no official date, but it will probably be for September (like the previous volume). Concerning the story (centered on Shun this time) we should know the first wearer the Andromeda Cloth.

Alquié also said that there was a lot of interaction with Japan for this volume, including storyboard corrections by Kuru.

The fact that Alquié mentions the inclusion of a character of ND, implies that Time Odyssey could have some connection with this story, probably the last volume (which will be centered on Seiya) could continue what was seen in the end of ND, although first we will have to see how this story ends.

 

[StekFence]

I recall ikki being pretty impressive in TO right?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the RAW of the chapter 103 of Next Dimension.

Next Dimension - Chapter 103


Spanish translation by Grupo Next Dimension.

Spoiler

I love how Asclepius looks like a sorcerer using his abilities with his scepter, he's basically the sorcerer of Athena's army. And it's also funny, Asclepius (and Odysseus using Asclepius' powers) can send Tenma to the place where Sasha is directly, but Athena couldn't leave the Sanctuary and had to travel for him, basically they keep showing us how Asclepius' abilities are above the gods, even though he doesn't have the power of the gods.

The era of Saint Seiya at the wall level is over and now let the era of Saint Seiya at the cottage level begin.

The return of Next Dimension and Real Madrid wins and gets a good advantage, this a great day.

 

[Linkbtw93]

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the RAW of the chapter 103 of Next Dimension.

Next Dimension - Chapter 103


I love how Asclepius looks like a sorcerer using his abilities with his scepter, he's basically the sorcerer of Athena's army. And it's also funny, Asclepius (and Odysseus using Asclepius' powers) can send Tenma to the place where Sasha is directly, but Athena couldn't leave the Sanctuary and had to travel for him, basically they keep showing us how Asclepius' abilities are above the gods, even though he doesn't have the power of the gods.

The era of Saint Seiya at the wall level is over and now let the era of Saint Seiya at the cottage level begin.

The return of Next Dimension and Real Madrid wins and gets a good advantage, this a great day.

Yes except for real madrid

 

[StekFence]

Oddy looking a bit blue there

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the RAW of the chapter 103 of Next Dimension.

Next Dimension - Chapter 103


I love how Asclepius looks like a sorcerer using his abilities with his scepter, he's basically the sorcerer of Athena's army. And it's also funny, Asclepius (and Odysseus using Asclepius' powers) can send Tenma to the place where Sasha is directly, but Athena couldn't leave the Sanctuary and had to travel for him, basically they keep showing us how Asclepius' abilities are above the gods, even though he doesn't have the power of the gods.

The era of Saint Seiya at the wall level is over and now let the era of Saint Seiya at the cottage level begin.

The return of Next Dimension and Real Madrid wins and gets a good advantage, this a great day.

I'm so happy, CDZ is back!!!!!

 

[Hasty12345]

I’m not convinced Kuru will be able to nicely complete this manga in 16 chapters

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Not a fan of the blue skin

 

[Huesito88]

I’m not convinced Kuru will be able to nicely complete this manga in 16 chapters

Come on have faith in Kuru like last time!

 

[Hasty12345]

Come on have faith in Kuru like last time!

Last time? Last time he rushed the hades arc so badly every volume in the arc makes a retcon or plot breaking inconsistency.

the ending was so bad he went and retconned it in the first 2 volumes of ND.

there’s very little reason to “have faith” in Kuru at the moment.

 

[Ped2018]

Yeah, Kuru is not a person to put your faith in

 

[Huesito88]

Last time? Last time he rushed the hades arc so badly every volume in the arc makes a retcon or plot breaking inconsistency.

the ending was so bad he went and retconned it in the first 2 volumes of ND.

there’s very little reason to “have faith” in Kuru at the moment.

Exactly!

 

[Ped2018]

Also, kinda disapointed that after all these years, his drawing didn't get any better

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

The entire Next Dimension being Sanctuary arc rehash just to lead into and top it off with an evil Saga ripoff

Dude refuses to subvert expectations

 

[Hasty12345]

The entire Next Dimension being Sanctuary arc rehash just to lead into and top it off with an evil Saga ripoff

Dude refuses to subvert expectations

That’s being disrespectful to Saga…

but then again, Kuru had to go retcon the most interesting part of his character as well

 

[Huesito88]

The entire Next Dimension being Sanctuary arc rehash just to lead into and top it off with an evil Saga ripoff

Dude refuses to subvert expectations

In before the 11th sense by the end of Next Dimension

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Yeah, Kuru is not a person to put your faith in

In general, I wouldn't have faith with any manga in this franchise, the endings usually have several problems and feel rushed. Few endings really close the story well, like Omega (end of the first and second season) and TLC.

At least I hope, that if this is the ending it closes this part of the story well, because you can't really expect anything else. And maybe an absurdly happy ending, with Seiya recovered, and all the Saints who died coming back to life because of the changes in time, and at the end Saori disappearing or turned into a mortal as a punishment for playing with the time.

Oddy looking a bit blue there

It is Asclepius taking possession of Odysseus.

A probable homage by Kurumada to the design of Eris in the movie with her blue skin. I also read that Asclepius was based on Lucifer. Once again Kurumada makes more references to the anime than to any other work in the franchise.

The entire Next Dimension being Sanctuary arc rehash just to lead into and top it off with an evil Saga ripoff

Dude refuses to subvert expectations

This is true, literally in this chapter Asclepius is just the Lemur, with the discourse of conquering the world and killing Athena. Kurumada will never abandon his old tropes.

 

[Veronica]

Why don't we use episode G or are they different versions of the main series?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Why don't we use episode G or are they different versions of the main series?

In fact, they use, it's a lot of mixing us profiles, where that character doesn't have a certain ability and uses another ability from a spin-off that's a different timeline. As is the case with Hades, where he does not have type 8 immortality in the canon line, but is placed having it only because of the G which is another Hades from a totally different timeline. Basically the profiles are all disorganized lol

 

[Hasty12345]

Type 8 immortality comes from
Sho

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Type 8 immortality comes from
Sho

He's using EP G too and scan in spanish which isn't even allowed on vsbttles, the profile is a total mess



I don't know why you use timelines that don't even have links or mention within the canon line to establish an ability.

 

[Hasty12345]

He's using EP G too and scan in spanish which isn't even allowed on vsbttles, the profile is a total mess



I don't know why you use timelines that don't even have links or mention within the canon line to establish an ability.

2 different things are being proved with a that imgur link, the G stuff establishes regen and Sho establishes type 8 and AE type 2.

and bro I agree, don’t even get me started on current DB canon, it’s worse than saint seiya at the moment.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

2 different things are being proved with a that imgur link, the G stuff establishes regen and Sho establishes type 8 and AE type 2.

and bro I agree, don’t even get me started on current DB canon, it’s worse than saint seiya at the moment.

I strongly disagree with using derivatives to grant such an ability, as it didn't demonstrate in the mainline.

Bro, we're in Saint Seiya :3

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the RAW of the chapter 103 of Next Dimension.

Next Dimension - Chapter 103


Spanish translation by Grupo Next Dimension.

Spoiler

I love how Asclepius looks like a sorcerer using his abilities with his scepter, he's basically the sorcerer of Athena's army. And it's also funny, Asclepius (and Odysseus using Asclepius' powers) can send Tenma to the place where Sasha is directly, but Athena couldn't leave the Sanctuary and had to travel for him, basically they keep showing us how Asclepius' abilities are above the gods, even though he doesn't have the power of the gods.

The era of Saint Seiya at the wall level is over and now let the era of Saint Seiya at the cottage level begin.

The return of Next Dimension and Real Madrid wins and gets a good advantage, this a great day.

About this chapter, it was understood that there are different Gods /Goddesses, Athena was about to be reborn in the body of this girl. Kind of obvious isn't it?

 

[StekFence]

Why don't we use episode G or are they different versions of the main series?

Atm, G is considered part of the classic saint seiya, so it’s the same profile

 

[Hasty12345]

I strongly disagree with using derivatives to grant such an ability, as it didn't demonstrate in the mainline.

Bro, we're in Saint Seiya :3

Yeah cross scaling between derivatives shouldn’t happen, no idea why DBS is now 2-C because of GT and a bunch of outdated retconned guides from 30 years ago

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah cross scaling between derivatives shouldn’t happen, no idea why DBS is now 2-C because of GT and a bunch of outdated retconned guides from 30 years ago

It's used guides from 2015 and interviews with Akira, regarding the structure it's right, I don't know why every time when we're talking about Saint Seiya mistakes you put this lol

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I strongly disagree with using derivatives to grant such an ability, as it didn't demonstrate in the mainline.

Bro, we're in Saint Seiya :3

Sho is part of the mainline and Kurumada's own work indicates that you need a sacred treasure (a divine weapon) to kill a god (it is even mentioned in Episode Zero, where Shura mentions that Athena can resurrect after killing her and in ND it is mentioned that you need a divine weapon like the poison of Samael, a poison that can kill gods, or the Sword of Chrysus, a weapon with the power to kill a god). Although regeneration to the level explained on the page does not exist in this franchise, because they never completely regenerated a soul and it was only damaged, even human souls do not disappear after being destroyed in multiple ways in the eternal punishment in the Underworld, basically the same series indicates that souls are ridiculously difficult to destroy in this series, this indicates a higher resistance to the destruction of a soul for the characters in this franchise, but not a regeneration of that level. Also, regeneration has to be degraded, as we never see them regenerate a body completely after being destroyed, and the most they regenerate is after great damage, and this can take them hundreds or thousands of years as indicated in the last chapter of Requiem, therefore their regeneration is only High and takes a long time to recover.

Basically the immortality of the gods, is a High regeneration in Assassin and Requiem, they can regenerate a body after it was destroyed by half, although this can take hundreds or thousands without the help of another god, so it is basically useless for these versus, although it is worth to be mentioned.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Sho is part of the main line and Kurumada's own work indicates that you need a sacred treasure (a divine weapon) to kill a god (it is even mentioned in Episode Zero, where Shura mentions that Athena can resurrect after killing her and in ND it is mentioned that you need a divine weapon like the poison of Samael, a poison that can kill gods, or the Sword of Chrysus, a weapon with the power to kill a god). Although regeneration to the level explained on the page does not exist in this franchise, because they never completely regenerated a soul and it was only damaged, even human souls do not disappear after being destroyed in multiple ways in the eternal punishment in the Underworld, basically the same series indicates that souls are ridiculously difficult to destroy in this series, this indicates a higher resistance to the destruction of a soul for the characters in this franchise, but a regeneration of that level. Also, regeneration has to be degraded, as we never see them regenerate a body completely after being destroyed, and the most they regenerate is after great damage, and this can take them hundreds or thousands of years as indicated in the last chapter of Requiem, therefore their regeneration is only High and takes a long time to recover.

But wouldn't that be type 4 immortality and god level regeneration? As opposed to being type 8? Since type 8 is not worked in the canonical line and not worked on concepts in the main series.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

But wouldn't that be type 4 immortality and god level regeneration? As opposed to being type 8? Since type 8 is not worked in the canonical line and not worked on concepts in the main series.

In no series in the franchise does it work, and the only goddess who has that level of immortality is Eris, a goddess that even Athena herself, using weapons designed to defeat evil beings like her cannot destroy, and perhaps Saturn, since he is connected to time. Basically only Eris is connected to the concept she represents in that form, that's why she literally gets stronger with conflicts and needs this to exist, which is why Kyoko (Eris) explains to Shoko that she cannot exist in a world without conflict. The problem is generalizing the exclusive abilities of some characters.

The immortality of the gods in the franchise in general is limited to only being type 1, 3 and 4 (probably also 5), with a High regeneration (although this one takes a long time, according to Episode.G, although in Kurumada's work it seems to be faster, but it was never seen how Athena was to be resurrected after Shura killed her), because they have never been seen to regenerate a body completely destroyed or reduced to dust (the only characters that have regeneration at this level are 8th Sense users such as Shaka and Ikki), and a higher resistance to soul destruction, since as it has been explained the souls in this franchise are ridiculously difficult to make them disappear, because no matter the damage they receive they do not disappear, it even seems that you need something special to completely destroy a soul and make it disappear, something like Pharaoh's technique or the power of a god.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

IIRC, it was lost in Viz's mediocre translations, but the raw and anime subtitles of the same scene (which are consistently way closer to the original than Viz) has Dohko tell the Bronze Saints to outright destroy Hades' real body, not just deal it a wound. Don't think the former would be possible if the gods had the invincible immortality they're argued to have.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In no series in the franchise does it work, and the only goddess who has that level of immortality is Eris, a goddess that even Athena herself, using weapons designed to defeat evil beings like her cannot destroy, and perhaps Saturn, since she is connected to time. Basically only Eris is connected to the concept she represents in that form, that's why she literally gets stronger with conflicts and needs this to exist, because as she tells Shoko she can't exist in a world without conflicts. The problem is generalizing the exclusive abilities of some characters.

The immortality of the gods in the franchise in general is limited to only being type 1, 3 and 4 (probably also 5), with a High regeneration (although this one takes a long time, according to Episode.G, although in Kurumada's work it seems to be faster, but it was never seen how Athena was to be resurrected after Shura killed her), and a higher resistance to soul destruction, since as it has been explained the souls in this franchise are ridiculously difficult to make them disappear, because no matter the damage they receive they do not disappear, it even seems that you need something special to completely destroy a soul and make it disappear, something like Pharaoh's technique or the power of a god.

Oh bro, so that should be changed! It doesn't seem normal at all to try to update all the Gods based on nothing, I can't wait for a team member to arrive and help fix Saint Seiya's profiles even more, there are things in the profiles that are not in the work and sometimes there are even wrong scans , not even talking about it is, Saint Seiya needs a heavy moderation about.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

IIRC, it was lost in Viz's mediocre translations, but the raw and anime subtitles of the same scene (which are consistently way closer to the original than Viz) has Dohko tell the Bronze Saints to outright destroy Hades' real body, not just deal it a wound. Don't think the former would be possible if the gods had the invincible immortality they're argued to have.

Amazing how there is such dishonesty in this

 

[StekFence]

I’m pretty sure the best feat of regen in the whole franchise actually comes from Seiya somehow. The most basic of the basic guys

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Amazing how there is such dishonesty in this

I wouldn't call it dishonest on anyone's end at all the hell.. Viz aren't powerscalers, they do what they do which is localize a manga to their region, and the consumers aren't to blame if they happen to change something from the original to create a more digestible dialogue that inadvertently can give a different interpretation.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I’m pretty sure the best feat of regen in the whole franchise actually comes from Seiya somehow. The most basic of the basic guys

Seiya every time he was on the verge of death Athena just said an "a" to Seiya and he was cured of everything

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I wouldn't call it dishonest on anyone's end at all the hell.. Viz aren't powerscalers, they do what they do which is localize a manga to their region, and the consumers aren't to blame if they happen to change something from the original to create a more digestible dialogue that inadvertently can give a different interpretation.

I understand

 

[StekFence]

Not that one, I think that’s just supernatural willpower, I mean that in Hero of Heroes, seiya gets his place in history/plot erased. He does die to it, but somehow winds up in yomotsu and somebody teleports him out. There’s literally no given reason why he can do this, it just happens.

Seiya every time he was on the verge of death Athena just said an "a" to Seiya and he was cured of everything

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Not that one, I think that’s just supernatural willpower, I mean that in Hero of Heroes, seiya gets his place in history/plot erased. He does die to it, but somehow winds up in yomotsu and somebody teleports him out. There’s literally no given reason why he can do this, it just happens.

Plot working directly for Seiya, I really like Seiya as a protagonist, but there are times when the script saves Seiya a thousand times from dying.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I’m pretty sure the best feat of regen in the whole franchise actually comes from Seiya somehow. The most basic of the basic guys.

The most impressive feat is the Gold Saints destroying themselves body and soul in the Wailing Wall scene and coming back in ND more trollish than ever, as they are now souls that can even move through space and time. Though I'm still in doubt, if this qualifies as regeneration, since technically they didn't regenerate anything.

And then there is, Aiolos in Dark Wing, being such a troll that he even came back somehow after his body and soul were completely erased from the world, and not only that, his existence was also erased, as no one remembers him in the world, basically the Hakai falls short in comparison to this erasure of existence, but we saw how his spirit or some fragment of him comes back, and even seems to have overwritten his own existence so that Sojiro remembers him.