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Sage Mode Naruto Scaling
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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I would like to give input on a few things, for starters the Pain that oneshotted Gamabunta is a looot stronger than say the Deva path that fought kakashi. Konan explains why on this panel:
https://imgur.com/a/PJN331M
Basically as the fight was dragging on and naruto was killing paths after paths the Deva path was getting stronger due to Nagato focusing more chakra on a single path.
If we use Damage3245's chibaku tensei feat(which is 6C)it further proves that Pain is capable of harming higher tiers when the Deva path is receiving most if not all of Nagato's chakra.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Updated_Chibaku_Tensei_Size_and_Nagato_Speed
We also see the Deva path tank a 6 tails bijuu bomb point black which Damage3245 calced as Large Mountain level(high 7-A):
https://imgur.com/a/8iMgTdO
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Six-Tails_Naruto_Biju_Bomb
Showing again that Pain clearly jumped tiers as the fight dragged on, which is consistent with Pain's chakra mechanics.
The only inconsistent feat for this version of Pain is Hinata surviving not only his almighty push(which oneshotted the toads) but also his chakra rod stab(which oneshotted fukasaku the sage toad).
Pain was also casually negging Rasenshurikens multiple times when half of the paths were destroyed, the same rasenshurikens that were damaging Kurama. So his Shinra tensei's AP also rose as the fight dragged on:
https://imgur.com/a/YALVarN
There used to be a calc on this site that showed that Sage naruto's RS was low 6B(which would have been consistent since it managed to damage kurama) but it was removed or replaced.
Now this is obviously an outlier(low 6B pain) however it still is one of the many examples of Pain getting progressivle stronger as the fight drags on, more so than his 7-A rating shows imo.
https://imgur.com/a/PJN331M
Basically as the fight was dragging on and naruto was killing paths after paths the Deva path was getting stronger due to Nagato focusing more chakra on a single path.
If we use Damage3245's chibaku tensei feat(which is 6C)it further proves that Pain is capable of harming higher tiers when the Deva path is receiving most if not all of Nagato's chakra.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Updated_Chibaku_Tensei_Size_and_Nagato_Speed
We also see the Deva path tank a 6 tails bijuu bomb point black which Damage3245 calced as Large Mountain level(high 7-A):
https://imgur.com/a/8iMgTdO
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Six-Tails_Naruto_Biju_Bomb
Showing again that Pain clearly jumped tiers as the fight dragged on, which is consistent with Pain's chakra mechanics.
The only inconsistent feat for this version of Pain is Hinata surviving not only his almighty push(which oneshotted the toads) but also his chakra rod stab(which oneshotted fukasaku the sage toad).
Pain was also casually negging Rasenshurikens multiple times when half of the paths were destroyed, the same rasenshurikens that were damaging Kurama. So his Shinra tensei's AP also rose as the fight dragged on:
https://imgur.com/a/YALVarN
There used to be a calc on this site that showed that Sage naruto's RS was low 6B(which would have been consistent since it managed to damage kurama) but it was removed or replaced.
Now this is obviously an outlier(low 6B pain) however it still is one of the many examples of Pain getting progressivle stronger as the fight drags on, more so than his 7-A rating shows imo.
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To be fair Hinata is much bigger than Fukkasaku though...So her getting stabbed has less chances of being hit in important organs than a toad like him
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@Command, Pain specifically had to concentrate all of his chakra into making the CT which pushed him to his limits. And he doesn't fully scale to the Biju Bomb (which wouldn't make sense he was defeated by an ordinary Rasengan).
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Damage3245
Scans for this?: Pain specifically had to concentrate all of his chakra into making the CT
The only prerequisite i saw was that Tendo needed to be close to Nagato, Tendo even states that he was gonna make the chibaku tensei bigger which goes against your claim of him concentrating ALL of his chakra into making that CT:
https://imgur.com/a/KyWcdmi
When Tendo was defeated by a rasengan he couldn't even stand up due to exhaustion so that's not really a fair way to scale him:
https://imgur.com/a/UwWuocz
Why exactly doesn't he scale to the Bijuu bomb? He literally tanked it point blank and we know for a fact that he wasn't able to shield himself with Shinrai tensei because he was still in his 5 seconds cooldown.
Scans for this?: Pain specifically had to concentrate all of his chakra into making the CT
The only prerequisite i saw was that Tendo needed to be close to Nagato, Tendo even states that he was gonna make the chibaku tensei bigger which goes against your claim of him concentrating ALL of his chakra into making that CT:
https://imgur.com/a/KyWcdmi
When Tendo was defeated by a rasengan he couldn't even stand up due to exhaustion so that's not really a fair way to scale him:
https://imgur.com/a/UwWuocz
Why exactly doesn't he scale to the Bijuu bomb? He literally tanked it point blank and we know for a fact that he wasn't able to shield himself with Shinrai tensei because he was still in his 5 seconds cooldown.
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But isn't that just Pain's Jutsu not his actual AP ?
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It still makes no sense to scale Gamabunta to Shukaku, making the main Pain one shot a 6-C, making Sage Naruto stronger than a 6-C, making kurama chakra Naruto scale above that and by consequence Shukaku in a long line, despite scaling comparable or slightly weaker to the rest of the Bijuu. But I mean, if everyone wants to downgrade Shukaku instead...
Regardless of Pain being tired later on, even back on the crater before Hinata got "killed" in front of Naruto, Naruto took a Shinra Tensei to the face without issue as a Sage and was merely blown back, not even hurt. Naruto likewise had no trouble keeping up with Pain and keeping him off himself, then sent him flying after turning Sage mode despite not dealing a lot of damage.
Gamubunta, at best, scales below Pain's 500 megatons. The "when focusing on Tendo" line also doesn't sell me much, since I would see things like Chibaku Tensei and the much more charged Shinra Tensei as an example of Nagato "focusing" on Tendo (literally, he drops down the other paths and channels all his Chakra on Tendo, that seems a lot to me like focusing on him and, just as Konan's words put it, his jutsu output became tremendous). This is even more consistent considering he could repel Rasenshurinken and still recovered fast enough that he destroyed Naruto's clone and sent the real Naruto flying, meaning that was as close to a base Shinra Tensei as we can get.
Regardless of Pain being tired later on, even back on the crater before Hinata got "killed" in front of Naruto, Naruto took a Shinra Tensei to the face without issue as a Sage and was merely blown back, not even hurt. Naruto likewise had no trouble keeping up with Pain and keeping him off himself, then sent him flying after turning Sage mode despite not dealing a lot of damage.
Gamubunta, at best, scales below Pain's 500 megatons. The "when focusing on Tendo" line also doesn't sell me much, since I would see things like Chibaku Tensei and the much more charged Shinra Tensei as an example of Nagato "focusing" on Tendo (literally, he drops down the other paths and channels all his Chakra on Tendo, that seems a lot to me like focusing on him and, just as Konan's words put it, his jutsu output became tremendous). This is even more consistent considering he could repel Rasenshurinken and still recovered fast enough that he destroyed Naruto's clone and sent the real Naruto flying, meaning that was as close to a base Shinra Tensei as we can get.
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Why would we downgrade Shukaku?? The same tailed beast that made Madara bleed.
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My point wasn't that there was any need to downgrade Shukaku, only that you can either downgrade him or downgrade Gamabunta as otherwise the scaling chain is non-existent to say the least. And as I am sure everyone understands, downgrading Gamabunta makes more sense.
That said, I would very much say he should go into 7-B as he was almost killed, but perhaps the 7-A is because he scales to something else related to that AP revision.
That said, I would very much say he should go into 7-B as he was almost killed, but perhaps the 7-A is because he scales to something else related to that AP revision.
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Almost dying to an attack doesn't sound a lot like scaling somewhat below it.
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We don't have any 7-B calcs to scale him to.
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Also if I remember correctly, didn't Gamabunta hold the nine tails down for a brief period when the 4th Hokage fought it?
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I meant that you don't scale to a technique that almost kills you, you downscale to it.
But I guess baseline 7-A works? Since Nagato is 7-A+ and there's like a 5x difference.
But I guess baseline 7-A works? Since Nagato is 7-A+ and there's like a 5x difference.
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What Wrath of Itachi said.
Also, since I dont see this mentioned yet, Gamabunta wasn't healthy when fighting Pain to be fair. Naruto summoned him to take on the 6 Paths Summonigs while he fought the Pains. So its aruable that Gamabunta was tired when Pain one shot him.
Also, since I dont see this mentioned yet, Gamabunta wasn't healthy when fighting Pain to be fair. Naruto summoned him to take on the 6 Paths Summonigs while he fought the Pains. So its aruable that Gamabunta was tired when Pain one shot him.
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0 7-A feats? Wut? Nagato's whole tier comes from the Rain Tiger At Will Calc still linked on his profile and that I don't remember ever being CRTed away or anything similar.
And no, fighting the summons wouldn't have made him weak. Dude literally punches one a few times, cuts it up, sits on it while Naruto does his thing, then the other two keep the dog one occupied while Gamabunta gets thrown to swallow the Animal Path and Naruto, then Naruto kills her. Is ridiculous to think so little would have tired him so much that he would have gotten one shot by an attack of his same tier.
But I guess I'll have to see what those other feats Gama scales to at all.
And no, fighting the summons wouldn't have made him weak. Dude literally punches one a few times, cuts it up, sits on it while Naruto does his thing, then the other two keep the dog one occupied while Gamabunta gets thrown to swallow the Animal Path and Naruto, then Naruto kills her. Is ridiculous to think so little would have tired him so much that he would have gotten one shot by an attack of his same tier.
But I guess I'll have to see what those other feats Gama scales to at all.
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I mean, isn't this just lifting strength? Holding it down and hurting it are very different.Wrath Of Itachi said:
Plus, Gamabunta hurting the fox sounds... doubtful to say the least.
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You do know among those 6 paths summonings was the one who splits after each hit right? Gama didn't easily beat those things like your suggesting.
Even disregarding that, people here need to remember that Shukaku is the weakest tailed beast by quite a far margin. Gama comparing to Shukaku (again, comparing, not rivaling) doesn't neccessarily mean Gama is remotely on the level of the other Biju.
Even disregarding that, people here need to remember that Shukaku is the weakest tailed beast by quite a far margin. Gama comparing to Shukaku (again, comparing, not rivaling) doesn't neccessarily mean Gama is remotely on the level of the other Biju.
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Kukui, did you by any chance actually see the fight? Gamabunta wails on it and then sits on it. When it actually divides, he leaves the two other toads to deal with it to help Naruto kill Animal Path, getting rid of all summons. After that the biggest thing he does is try to slice the main Pain a few times and Pain just jumps over him to attack Naruto out of Sage mode, then does the same thing with the other 3 toads for a few moments before getting Shinra Tensei'd. And... Shukaku being weak as balls is irrelevant. He still hurts Madara amped with Sage Chakra, the same Madara comparable to the other Tailed Beasts, from 1 to 8th tail. It is a nonsense scaling chain all the same.
@M3X Really? I would have imagined the tier would have been changed for at least the more important pages since that was ages ago but... well, seems like it is Low 7-B now. That only leaves me curious what are the 7-A feats.
@M3X Really? I would have imagined the tier would have been changed for at least the more important pages since that was ages ago but... well, seems like it is Low 7-B now. That only leaves me curious what are the 7-A feats.
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Currently we have 2 or 3 7-A feats. At least one of them was made by Hiashi who is a fodder (Fodder because... most of the cast would scale). There is Lee's 810 Megatons feat for destroying a meteor in The Last. But we have some good High 7-A and 6-C (baseline) feats to scale the characters, so it would be more of an upgrade.
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Sounds good, will have to see in the actual AP thread whenever is made.
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> At least one of them was made by Hiashi who is a fodder (Fodder because... most of the cast would scale).
There are very few characters who directly scale to Hiashi as far as I'm aware.
> There is Lee's 810 Megatons feat for destroying a meteor in The Last.
I believe that calc still needs updating.
There are very few characters who directly scale to Hiashi as far as I'm aware.
> There is Lee's 810 Megatons feat for destroying a meteor in The Last.
I believe that calc still needs updating.
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We should really avoid scaling based on ranks where possible. There is no reason to indirectly scale the majority of the characters you listed to him when they have their own feats and direct scaling.
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@Omimi; I'm not going to argue about it in this thread. I'm just stating my viewpoint on it that trying to scale the majority of the verse based on ranking is ridiculous when characters have their own feats.
It's like trying to say that every Jonin character is equal to War Arc Kakashi because he's a Jonin.
Or every Kage is as strong as Hashirama or Tobirama because they're Kages.
Or every Genin in the Chunin Exams must be equal to Neji, because he was a Genin.
It's like trying to say that every Jonin character is equal to War Arc Kakashi because he's a Jonin.
Or every Kage is as strong as Hashirama or Tobirama because they're Kages.
Or every Genin in the Chunin Exams must be equal to Neji, because he was a Genin.
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I know what you're saying because all of those are exceptions. Also isn't Kakashi already supposed to be the next Kage ? Like anytime something where they always need another Kage Kakashi is almost always brought. Neji doesn't really belong with the Genin *especially when it takes 3 Jonin to restrain him* Naruto is still a Genin cause he missed the exams. I think when people scale due to rank i guess its better to have people like Asuma in mind as the exampleDamage3245 said:
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Hiashi, he's one of the strongest Jounin in Konoha, so no one will scale through him except Hizashi.
Hizashi = Hiashi, They are equally strong and use the same AP.
They are both each lovers, and they are both tsundere, he saying that have done to protect Konoha and Hyuga, but in truth he does for not want to his brothers die
Hizashi = Hiashi, They are equally strong and use the same AP.
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