Saber VS Monkey D. Luffy

[FantaRin_The_First]

Nah, Servant's invulnerability is against anything that isn't supernatural-like, in theory, a servant like Saber would be perfectly safe from a 5-B non-supernatural nuke due to nasuverse bullshit-but Luffy bypasses this detail due to his devil fruit and haki, so not important. And ye, the only thing restricted for Luffy is Gear 4.

 

[SnookB]

Haki should let him interact with her. It's considered "spiritual" in the verse, and allows characters to manipulate even their souls.

If we are letting Saber use a low 6-B attack, luffy can use this too

Nada. She has a single attack that's 6B. Luffy's 6B first requires entering G4, which turns this fight into the definition of stomp

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

But that low 6-B attack is not easily usable Snook, if it was done instantly, then of course it would be an stomp and Luffy will never let her use it in the first place

 

[Loyd]

Luffy FRA

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I will end this with Luffy FRA

 

[SnookB]

Yeeting my vote to Luffy as well

 

[Regidian]

But that low 6-B attack is not easily usable Snook, if it was done instantly, then of course it would be an stomp and Luffy will never let her use it in the first place

Excalibur activation is less than one second. But she would not do it directly tho

 

[Regidian]

Gae Bolg's evasion was both her instinct and luck. Tsubame Gaeshi was actively nerfed when she took it on.
He basic instinct of "knowing the trajectory ahead of time" as its described is comparable to a singular layer of kenbun.

The knowing the trajectory ahead of time is the ability of instinct rank C.

Rank A is the ability to predict the futur.

At Rank A, it is essentially in the realm of predicting the future.

And rank B instinct of Mordred let her able to fight Chiron who have limited futur sight. (By combining his Eye of the Mind and Clairvoyance, he gains the ability of limited future sight).

And depending of the place they are, arturia could litteraly just walk in water to stop the close fight

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just wanna say some people get confused by this... Predicting the future and seeing the future is different... There are many levels and differences in both those abilities.. Man... I dont wanna explain bye

 

[Regidian]

Just wanna say some people get confused by this... Predicting the future and seeing the future is different... There are many levels and differences in both those abilities.. Man... I dont wanna explain bye

Can't you read? Rank B instinct allow to fight with people that can see the futur. Seriously why people comment by seeing first line of a comment

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Can't you read? Rank B instinct allow to fight with people that can see the futur. Seriously why people comment by seeing first line of a comment

Um, can't you read? I wasn't specifically talking to you I was talking in general because I have seen people be confused about precog

 

[SnookB]

And rank B instinct of Mordred let her able to fight Chiron who have limited futur sight. (By combining his Eye of the Mind and Clairvoyance, he gains the ability of limited future sight).

Nothing new for One Piece. Luffy was negging Katakuri's future sight before he attained it via basic kenbun precog. Luffy's FS just adds layers to his already busted precog.

 

[Regidian]

Nothing new for One Piece. Luffy was negging Katakuri's future sight before he attained it via basic kenbun precog. Luffy's FS just adds layers to his already busted precog.

Except here it's beginning time skip. And he wasn't really negging it before.we surely didin't see the same thing.

 

[SnookB]

Except here it's beginning time skip. And he wasn't really negging it before.we surely didin't see the same thing.

His kenbun is literally the exact same until he gets FS.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Two things

First Mana Burst is at least a 3× Multiplier for Speed, Dura and strength and a further 3× for speed and strength if she gets rid of her Armour so 6× at least

Second ya'll should probably wait till the current LB revision is done cause there's a servant speed revision that'll drop which will Likely change the overall outcome of this match given that we know Mana Bursts Multipliers now

 

[Scottycj256]

This should have been Post-Katakuri Luffy vs Saber

I vote Luffy

 

[Phoenks]

Can someone TLDR how Luffy is even able to do damage to Saber.

As far as I'm aware, he is a physical fighter, and Hakai would not count as magic. Thus her invulnerability should completely block out his attacks.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Haki is counted as supernatural thing so it can bypass the invul, doesn't mention he's devil fruit user as well, that count as very mysterious power
Combined the two and servant invul can be bypassed like a peanut butter
Otherwise Kuuga can't bypass it because melee fighter by the logic you said

 

[Phoenks]

It doesn't matter if it's supernatural. Servant invulnerability is more specific than that.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It doesn't matter if it's supernatural. Servant invulnerability is more specific than that.

Not really, as long you have mysterious power and supernatural aspect, the servant invul isn't that matter
Like if thats really specific then i'll never make Kamen Rider vs Servants or heck i'll scrap out some of my One Piece vs Servants idea because of that while in reality, it's not that complicated system

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Not really, as long you have mysterious power and supernatural aspect, the servant invul isn't that matter
Like if thats really specific then i'll never make Kamen Rider vs Servants or heck i'll scrap out some of my One Piece vs Servants idea because of that while in reality, it's not that complicated system

Adding onto this, didn't Caster/Medea enhance Kuzuki's limbs with reinforcement magic and he was able to hurt and damage Saber just fine? I think Haki plus Devil Fruit powers are enough to bypass Servant Invulnerability.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Adding onto this, didn't Caster/Medea enhance Kuzuki's limbs with reinforcement magic and he was able to hurt and damage Saber just fine? I think Haki plus Devil Fruit powers are enough to bypass Servant Invulnerability.

Yes, you're right about that

 

[Phoenks]

Caster used magic. Yes. Other servants have powers that can harm servants, so of course infusing him with that power would give him the ability to harm them. He was basically turned into a pseudo-servant.

Prove that Devil Fruit abilities are magic?

 

[SnookB]

Caster used magic. Yes. Other servants have powers that can harm servants, so of course infusing him with that power would give him the ability to harm them. He was basically turned into a pseudo-servant.

Prove that Devil Fruit abilities are magic?

• Invulnerability: Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age.

The physiology page specifies "supernatural aspect" and uses magical energy as one example of such. There are other supernatural things outside of magic energy.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Devil Fruit doesn't need to be magic, it counted as sort of mysterious power
To adding this, even Alien and it's tech can bypass the servant invul due of counted as "mystery"

 

[LordGinSama]

Can someone TLDR how Luffy is even able to do damage to Saber.

As far as I'm aware, he is a physical fighter, and Hakai would not count as magic. Thus her invulnerability should completely block out his attacks.

Haki and Devil Fruits would bypass it. Magic isn't the thing that bypass the invun, it's Supernatural things in general.

The skill gap shouldn't be too vast considering Luffy's own solid feats and scaling.


Saber doesn't have temporal based Precognition, her Instinct is outright stated to be within the realms of Precognition and even then there are several types of Precognition, to which Luffy has multiple of. Luffy can also just evolve into developing Future Sight mid battle due to Haki's growth.


Also Luffy can drastically become faster and stronger as time goes on, his RE has let him cover gaps of thousands of times in the past. He has experience in dealing with opponents with Precognition, has durability negation in the form of Red Hawk, massive speed amps with Gear 2nd, has wide ass AoE with Gear3rd and has crazy good RE and RPL.


I don't see how Saber is taking this.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Caster used magic. Yes. Other servants have powers that can harm servants, so of course infusing him with that power would give him the ability to harm them. He was basically turned into a pseudo-servant.

Prove that Devil Fruit abilities are magic?

I mean... wasn't there also a time in UBW in where Rin used reinforcement magic and beat the crap out of Caster, and would've killed her if she wasn't stopped by Kuzuki?

 

[LordGinSama]

It doesn't matter if it's supernatural. Servant invulnerability is more specific than that.

No it isn't, refer to the Servant Physiology page not your own headcanon.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Haki and Devil Fruits would bypass it. Magic isn't the thing that bypass the invun, it's Supernatural things in general.

The skill gap shouldn't be too vast considering Luffy's own solid feats and scaling.


Saber doesn't have temporal based Precognition, her Instinct is outright stated to be within the realms of Precognition and even then there are several types of Precognition, to which Luffy has multiple of. Luffy can also just evolve into developing Future Sight mid battle due to Haki's growth.


Also Luffy can drastically become faster and stronger as time goes on, his RE has let him cover gaps of thousands of times in the past. He has experience in dealing with opponents with Precognition, has durability negation in the form of Red Hawk, massive speed amps with Gear 2nd, has wide ass AoE with Gear3rd and has crazy good RE and RPL.


I don't see how Saber is taking this.

Hey Gin, there are going to be a CRT about servant speed again, maybe you can participate when it's out
And Maou said it will change the outcome of this match

 

[LordGinSama]

Hey Gin, there are going to be a CRT about servant speed again, maybe you can participate when it's out
And Maou said it will change the outcome of this match

I don't really care about speed since it's usually not even relevant.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I see your point there, it just that the chance of this match outcome will change if that CRT get accepted, but i'm not forcing it to you lel

Anyway this match has concluded long ago, no point to debate this further if you ask me

 

[ShivaShakti]

4-D Invulnerability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Can someone TLDR how Luffy is even able to do damage to Saber.

As far as I'm aware, he is a physical fighter, and Hakai would not count as magic. Thus her invulnerability should completely block out his attacks.

Physical attacks aren't immediately negated just for being physical. Herc's weapon is a really old carved rock the Einzberg prepared for him.

Luffy's body is constantly transformed by a Mythical Zoan of a sun god that makes it become rubber. You cannot argue that doesn't qualify for enough mystery.

It doesn't matter if it's supernatural. Servant invulnerability is more specific than that.

...What are you talking about? Servants are stated to need objects with high Mystery to be harmed. This can be achieved through age, being supernatural (not scientifically explainable) or using supernatural sources of energy.

The mystery is also from the perspective of Nasu humans, as far as scientific understanding goes. Chaos may be streamlined enough in its home universe that there are laws about planetary assimilation, but it sure as hell has mystery as far as anybody in Nasuverse's earth is concerned.

And even if you verse equalize, Devil Fruits are centuries old magic fruits that no-one can really explain in One Piece either.

 

[Phoenks]

Does the wiki currently treat Mystery as a 3-D concept?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Does the wiki currently treat Mystery as a 3-D concept?

It doesn't matter. As I said, Mystery is given to something that can't be explained by Nasu humanity's science (Luffy's everything), something that is notably old (the Devil Fruit itself) or something that uses magical energy (which weaponized life energy counts as - haki absolutely would as well).

 

[Phoenks]

It doesn't matter. As I said, Mystery is given to something that can't be explained by Nasu humanity's science (Luffy's everything), something that is notably old (the Devil Fruit itself) or something that uses magical energy (which weaponized life energy counts as - haki absolutely would as well).

How doesn't that matter? I believe it would be a severe downplay of Fate's mystery to say that anything "supernatural" qualifies for "High Mystery" if it is indeed a higher dimensional concept.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

What Ricsi said, anyway as i said again the match is over so there's no point to debating further
I already requesting a mod to close this match

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How doesn't that matter? I believe it would be a severe downplay of Fate's mystery to say that anything "supernatural" qualifies for "High Mystery" if it is indeed a higher dimensional concept.

You can believe that, but you will have to walk me through how that belief formed. Anything and everything gains some amount of mystery in Type Moon so long as the three things I mentioned are met. Mystery is humanity's subconscious looking at something and saying "hey, I don't know how that works", that's it.

Martial arts? Have mystery that scales with the age and supernatural qualities of the technique. Mindless brawling? The most primordial form of fighting, which allows Beowulf to ignore skills and protective Noble Phantasms for being so old.

I mean, seriously... "In addition, since this attack is the same primitive form of weaponry (one's own limbs) that has been unchanged since the primeval times, Noble Phantasms and Skills with characteristics of "grasping and perceiving attacks after seeing them once" are nullified against this attack." This is what Beowulf gets for being a pure brawler when he throws his weapons away.

 

[ShivaShakti]

This is essentially similar to claiming that Palpatine would retroactively gain Reality Warping and Plot Manipulation in a battle with a Twin Peaks character, because he has access to Force Lightning. Or claiming that Freddy Krueger would become Tier 0 in an Elder Scrolls match, because he has Dream Manipulation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This is essentially similar to claiming that Palpatine would retroactively gain Reality Warping and Plot Manipulation in a battle with a Twin Peaks character, because he has access to Force Lightning. Or claiming that Freddy Krueger would become Tier 0 in an Elder Scrolls match, because he has Dream Manipulation.

Except it is not, in fact, claiming that.

Luffy gains no boons or increases to his ability, he just doesn't make sense according to Type Moon humanity's science, ergo he is considered to have Mystery. The only way you could have that not happen would be to put them somewhere where humanity just doesn't exist and can't judge them, but then a) Artoria would not have mystery either, and b) Artoria would just die, because Servants can't manifest in places where humanity doesn't exist at all.

Rather, this is like claiming that somebody who has a weakness to the supernatural in general, will in-fact be weak to a tier 6 boy made of gum who was made to shapeshift into a sun god by a magical fruit.