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Ryu VS. Jin 2: Electric Boogaloo (GRACE!)

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Akuma is canon to tekken,else why would he be in the story of the game,guest characters usually are just non canon and have no business with the series they guest in,like Geese and Noctis,Akuma is another story
 
He's literally there as fan service and as a bit of advertisement for Street Fighter. Stories tend to balance scaling characters from other universes so things can be fair which usually results to them as being different characters.
 
By your logic comic book characters are different characters everytime cuz in different stories they get balanced as you say
 
Also he wasnt for fan service or advertisement for street fighter,nobody asked for him and he had only hate for being included and a guest is to attract others to get the game more sales,plus the developers wanted him there from an interview if i remember
 
Anyway,this is about Jin vs Ryu,not Akuma,i only brought up the raging demon here,as not being a real factor,plus the other thing with him having resistance to soul manipulated stuff,he can also avoid it or interrupt him out of it,plus everything else
 
Ryu has nothing in here that gives him the win

Experience,hax,h2h skill and so on,you people base your vote on Ryu from stuff i already debunked and talked about above
 
Besides Ryu likely has the better experience and h2h skills anyways given he's fought for most of his life and went up against people like Bison, Cody, Oro, Akuma, etc

Hell Bison has similar Hax to Jin in his Telekinesis and Teleporting, look what Ryu did to him lol.
 
Somebody set this to grace period and get this added already to Ryu's notable victories once this is over.
 
JohnConquest1 said:
Besides Ryu likely has the better experience and h2h skills anyways given he's fought for most of his life and went up against people like Bison, Cody, Oro, Akuma, etc

Hell Bison has similar Hax to Jin in his Telekinesis and Teleporting, look what Ryu did to him lol.
Click to expand...
And Jin fought Kazuya,Heihachi,Jinpachi,Ogre and Azazel,characters he actually beat without the need to transform or such and mind you Ryu never beat Bison on his own,neither Akuma,Oro and when did he faced Cody btw?you give me characters he never won against and some are two of them arent even that experienced or that great in h2h combat

Except Bison never used telekinesis on Ryu ever and neither teleportation,on top of that he never beat Bison legit in a fight without others help
 
Always the same story,overrating Ryu with the power of nothingness which has nothing impressive or noteworthy besides a boost and soul protection along wins he doesnt have on his record,way to go ignoring things here...

Bias at its finest on this thread with no proof whatsoever
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
And Jin fought Kazuya,Heihachi,Jinpachi,Ogre and Azazel,characters he actually beat without the need to transform or such and mind you Ryu never beat Bison on his own,neither Akuma,Oro and when did he faced Cody btw?you give me characters he never won against and some are two of them arent even that experienced or that great in h2h combat

Except Bison never used telekinesis on Ryu ever and neither teleportation,on top of that he never beat Bison legit in a fight without others help
Click to expand...
In SFV Ryu fought Bison and did exactly that. Even before the fight Bison acknowledges that Ryu has a power thats beyond him. Even when he was powered by the moons. and before I hear Nash weakened him Bison literally walked away from his suicide attempt unscathed and was toying with him the entire time.

Thats cool except that Akuma and Oro out class them all anyways in their restricted forms. its not about winning against them though, its about how Ryu can even tango with people on their level remotely in the first place you know guys who can one punch islands into the ground, split ayers rock and even destroy meteors in the comics without going full power themselves.
 
Oh wow, I forgot that this thread even existed. Anyway, I'll address the points brought up previously by Black...

First of all, I don't see how my example isn't valid. Akuma is from Street Fighter yet he is in Tekken 7, an entirely different verse from his own. That means yes, Tekken 7 is a crossover to an extent because it's representing another character from another franchise in one game. Even other characters make an appearance in Tekken 7 like Geese Howard from SNK, Negan from The Walking Dead and Noctis from Final Fantasy. Smash is the same thing as it represents many different characters from different verses under one game, ultimately sharing the same principle. It doesn't mean anything if the heads of both Street Fighter and Tekken are all buddy-buddy at all as both Akumas are (again) different from each other in terms of power and feats (I mean look at their profiles ). Besides, if you want to believe that Tekken Akuma is the same as the canon one, then how the hell did he even get to the Tekken-verse in the first place? It's never explained where Akuma came from, he's just there. Somehow he just knew Kazumi and made a promise to her that he'll kill Heihachi and Kazuya for whatever reason. Also, it's actually very important for feats to be shown. Canon Akuma can pulverize an entire island with several mountains with just a simple strike, yet you don't see such power displayed at all by Tekken Akuma with his most powerful feat being causing a volcano to explode due to the combined efforts of his power and True Devil Kazuya's, which is not near the sheer power canon Akuma has shown. For example, Smash Kirby (yes again) can easily be damaged by the likes of lower tier characters like Pichu and humans like Little Mac and can be defeated with a powerful enough blow which reverts him into a trophy (don't know if that's still a thing in Smash but still) while the canon Kirby can casually shatter planets and such. Despite Sakurai (the creator of Kirby and Smash) putting Kirby in Smash, both Kirbys are clearly different. That's not the canon Kirby you play as in Smash and Smash Kirby showcases nowhere near the same power as his canon counterpart.

Second, since the Akuma Heihachi fought isn't nowhere near the same power as the one in canon, it's evident that the Raging Demon he survived is a much weaker version. I mean it's not even shown how Heihachi even survived it in the first place, making me bet that PIS or plot armor is at play just so he and Kazuya could have a final battle at the very end, but I won't go into that. I wouldn't say Jin scales anyway as Heihachi is the only one to have survived the Raging Demon, meaning it's a resistance likely exclusive to him. Also, in Tekken 4, Kazuya was just trying to remove the Devil Gene from Jin and ultimately failed - he didn't try to take his soul. With those points considered, I wouldn't say Jin has resistance to soul manip.

Third, I'm not saying that Ryu's hadouken is enough to take Devil Jin down in the air, I'm just saying that Ryu is not at a complete disadvantage since he has projectiles to combat Jin with. Speed is equalized here so the lasers can easily be avoided by Ryu anyway or at least countered with the hadouken as well. But... Ryu (Evil Ryu) one-shotted Bison in Alpha and while there were times he hadn't defeated Bison on his own, he still contended with him none the less in base. Additionally, in one battle between the two (I forgot which game, but probably Alpha iirc) where Bison constantly teleports all over the screen. Also with Jin taking others powers, I'm gonna assume it's the same way Kazuya tried doing so to Jin which I believe is going to fail. Jin prevented Kazuya from taking his Devil Gene due to his sheer willpower, something I see Ryu doing as well so I don't see Jin taking the Satsui No Hado or any of his abilities.

Fourth, I don't understand how you don't see Ryu having the AP advantage. Base Ryu is already at 7-B as Bison was able to casually destroy a city (already higher than Base Jin who's Low 7-B). Even in their powerful forms such as the Satsui No Hado/Power of Nothingness are also listed as 7-B to a much higher extent than Devil Jin. Besides, I would say it is consistent since Ryu contended with Akuma (albiet held back). I feel that Not Icarus already explained this well so I'm gonna move on from that. Also, I find it funny how you say the Satsui No Hado isn't canon yet you say that Ryu has harnessed it before in canon which totally contradicts yourself. You even acknowledged Sagat's defeat at the hands of Ryu in the first tournament and do you know how he lost? By Ryu tapping into it and striking out with fury. Ryu trying to not succumb to the Satsui No Hado has been a staple in the Street Fighter series and is a huge part of his character development throughout the games until Gouken apparantly removed it from his body. However, even in Street Fighter V, Ryu is still struggling with repelling the Satsui No Hado away and nearly triggers it at one point iirc. If it wasn't canon then why is it even there in the first place in the main games?

Fifth, Jin winning three tournaments is great, but I don't really see how that justifies he's a better martial artist. I mean it can be argued that Ryu at least won three tournaments himself as he won in the First World Tournament (which wasn't a cheap shot on Ryu's part as Sagat's confidence in believing that he had won and dropping his guard had led to his downfall), the Second World Tournament (where it seems other sources support the fact that Ryu won) and the S.I.N. Tournament (where he defeated Seth as Evil Ryu and his clone towards the final round in base), but that's besides the point. Listing characters Jin has defeated isn't going to help all too much either. That's like the old argument people have used for Kratos from God of War - since he defeated gods, then he automatically stomps anyone who hasn't (which isn't the case at all). I'm not concerned about how many opponents they've fought nor do I care too much about the amount of tournaments they've won, what truly matters in my opinion is their combat skill and techniques. As stated before, Ryu has several techniques which could stun Jin and hit him regardless if he blocks, leaving him open for combos along with the fact that Ryu has projectiles to use as he's fighting to bombard Jin with. Jin seems to be all offense and strikes hard, but seems to just charge right in especially when he's in a fit of rage. Ryu knows at least two fighting styles and it isn't the senseless button mashing of hadoukens and predictable shoryukens that you make it out to be at all as evidenced by the aforementioned techniques and the more powerful variations of moves (plus super moves) he's learned from training every single day.

Sixth, I remember seeing Ryu with Mu No Ken just standing there as bullets harmlessly bounced off of him in a cutscene or something, but honestly I was just reading the Street Fighter wiki about that so you got me there as I've got nothing to say about that (But it seems JohnConquest1 summed it up nicely). Jin used his telekinesis to blow up a motorcycle? That's cool, but not all that destructive and he only seems to Force Choke people when they're nearly defeated so it's not like something Jin would just use right off the bat.

Sorry, but I still see Ryu taking this in a very intense fight. Also, this isn't even bias, it's just that people are convinced by one argument as opposed to the other, you know, voting.
 
Can't wait for Ryu's profile to finally be unlocked again so somebody can add in his loss againts Scorpion and his victory againts Jin
 
JohnConquest1 said:
Except Bison never used telekinesis on Ryu ever and neither teleportation,on top of that he never beat Bison legit in a fight without others help
Click to expand...
In SFV Ryu fought Bison and did exactly that. Even before the fight Bison acknowledges that Ryu has a power thats beyond him. Even when he was powered by the moons. and before I hear Nash weakened him Bison literally walked away from his suicide attempt unscathed and was toying with him the entire time.

Thats cool except that Akuma and Oro out class them all anyways in their restricted forms. its not about winning against them though, its about how Ryu can even tango with people on their level remotely in the first place you know guys who can one punch islands into the ground, split ayers rock and even destroy meteors in the comics without going full power themselves. </div>

The meteor feat isnt from the comics....its from a crossover game and the comics werent canon ever to begin with btw,not to mention shin akuma did that not normal akuma

Holding your own vs someone<<<<<beating someone in this case,do that argument of yours mean shit

Bison never said anywhere at all that ryu power was beyond his,he said he had the power to beat that beast(reffering to neccali)

Just cuz bison walked away from nash suicide doesnt mean the part where he absorbed his power is to be ignored,he was cut off from the black moon and weakened by nash before ryu fights him
 
1)Since when Namco has to make Akuma do the same feats again he already has from street fighter just to please people like who are asking for too much from a character,i can also do the same thing for when one piece had a special crossover episode with dragon ball,i can also ask for goku to do a universal feat like in dbs and say why he didnt do it at all and you example is still not a good one,smash is a crossover game,all characters are from different franchises fighting each other,tekken 7 isnt a crossover,even with guests characters and geese,negan and noctis arent canon to the game,meanwhile akuma is part of the main story,also dont go at me and use vs wiki profiles as an argument,if you were to use that anywhere else you would lose credibility from anyone you debated with

2)claiming the raging demon is weaker just cuz of different versions isnt an argument,also heihachi survived it by sheer durability as shown in the battle,although that left him weakened afterwards,so i can claim jin scales to that,cuz heihachi done by being tough enough to resist that,its something obvious in the series that heihachi survives most stuff cuz he is just that durable,he is hard to kill

Excuse me but in tekken 3 intro near the end when jin got the tatto on him we see the devil spirit appearing there marking jin and its said in the story of the games that part of the devil left kazuya and went to jin and its said later on that he lost that part of him when heihachi threw kazuya in a volcano so he tried to absorb that out of Jin and its seen in kazuya ending if he won the battle and succeded,then there is also devil jin ending in tekken where he does it on jinpachi,which was said by harada that a vengeful spirit was what jinpachi had him possessed and jinpachi also mentions in interludes about it by saying "this thing" and jin absrobs that and there is even in tag 2 when kazuya absorbs unknown,which is possessed by a whole like spirit as we saw in tag 1 and when you beat her in tag 2,there is a cutscene of spirits getting out of her body and going into her again,thats more then enough to prove soul resistance

Also kazuya failed to do it not cuz of jin will power,because he had the kazama blood that was stopping him from that,so stop making head canons that ryu can resist it by will power,when it was said why it failed

3)contending with bison doesnt scale ryu to him,in one of the animated movies he and ken together barely beat him and bison was messing around with them and owning them,while characters like akuma put bison down in mere moments,also iirc in one of the alpha games,ryu had sagat,chun li,sakura and ken help to beat bison at the end,so ryu isnt on bison level in base form and its shown that either with evil ryu or mu no ken he can compete legit on even terms

4)Bison didnt destroy a city,Ryu energy from the body used to power a satellite weapon of shadaloo did it and why is that rated as city level in the first place?there isnt even a calc for that either on his profile or anything and its assumed to be city level from what?the size aint given either,so that very well can be small city level as well since nothing was done for it and likely higher is also assumed out of what...there is no multiplier or anything that indicates how much of a power increase mu no ken and satsui no hado give for ryu,so im not gonna accept any comment that says "AP for ryu is higher" from assumptions with little effort regarding the feat in question,also jin in base form isnt small city he is higher then that,so the tiering given on that aint accurate

i didnt said the satsui no hado is non canon, i said evil ryu is,because he never transformed into him ever,best we seen in canon is ryu being under its influence for a bit,with the eyes indicating that,his appearance doesnt change though,so next time research before you claim something,plus ryu still struggles with it,jin dealt with his devil gene after tekken 5 and can use part of its power whenever he pleases,unlike ryu which gets taken under its influence and having to be snapped out of it by someone else

5)stop making excuses....sagat was beating his ass and ryu couldnt beat him,even in sf5 kage points out when he tells ryu he defeated sagat and akuma,something which ryu wanted but never accomplished on his own with his power and its more obvious when kage beats him too,ryu had to just ignore him and not give him attention as he wasnt any match for him,the fact ryu had use a shoryuken powered by the hado when sagat was off guard and trying to be fair play says a lot,you cant argue the story there,weather you like it or not,the 2nd tournament isnt saying ryu won and its up for debate as it doesnt confirm anything and against seth he didnt beat him as evil ryu....and used the mu no ken as we saw in the movie....stop makng up lies and stop hyping ryu up,plus the fight didnt happen in a tournament at all,jin on the other hand won 3 tournamens by skill and training,without using the devil form or anything,meanwhile ryu used two different powers in these instances,not even base form

You act like Jin doesnt have techniques....he has parries,numerous stances from which he has moves out of them and so on,if you wanna compare their moves,i can pull off both characters move list and then we see which one has the better one and more technical and complex,ryu has jabs and low kicks along hadokens,shoryukens at best,jin has a lot more then that for him,so stop overrating him

Also how cute of you sayng ryu know 2 styles...jin knows 3 and he learned when he wasnt even as old as ryu,kazama,mishimas and traditional karate fighting styles,you can tell me how much you want that ryu has better h2h or such,your claims are debunked by jin having more styles learned under is belt on top of more things for him in general,even their move lists prove that also lets not forget that jin beat guys more experienced and better in h2h then ryu,including ogre that copied numerous moves of other martial artists or participants from the tournament for himself

6)you just contradicted yourself by saying jin using telekinesis when an opponent wasnt nearly defeated,that being the motorcycle instance,kazuya used his telekinesis to knock heihachi away,kazumi used it to summon a meteor from the sky and throw it at an opponent,all in cutscenes or transitions,yours with devil jin doing it on a defeated opponent is a win animation,so no,he can use it in battle too if he wants,kazuya and kazumi done it before whats stopping jin from doing it?

Also now that i looked at the motorcycle feat again,he blew it up from the inside,so whats gonna stop jin doing the same on ryu?you dont have any excuse or good answer

So in the end as i said,bias and favoritism by certain people in this thread and ignorance at its finest,with claims of things i already debunked or talked about earlier and poor excuses,you ignore that fact that jin has a huge edge in hax,ryu has mainly ki attacks with fire and electricity based properties for the same thing which aint even that big of a deal,jin family shown they can resist electricty and fire be fine and besides those ryu other main thing is a soul destroying move which can be avoided or countered against,kazuya countered akuma raging demon in the final fight they had,whats stopping jin from pulling the same thing?even if jin didnt had resistance(but does as proven already),it can be avoided or defended against

And as mentioned earlier,huge hax advantage,telekinesis,flight,intangibility/pashing like kazumi and kazuya shown,teleportation in a manner like jinpachi and kazuya,schockwaves,power absorbing done by taking the spirit/soul in canon and non canon as proven,ability to sense someone soul,Regenerationn,lasers,force fields and such

And one last thing,even if Bison used teleportation on Ryu,you still didnt prove he beat him on his own at all and i already talked about how it goes if ryu fights him alone in base form,thats further proves he has problems with a teleporting character like him,meanwhile jin won his battles against such opponents without a problem

You still didnt convinced me Ryu winning and said the same things i heard before for anyone siding Ryu,so i dont know how you can be that blind to see him winning when its been also done by other vs shows or pages for vs fights this match up,jin won all of them and it was acknowledged facts like ryu not scaling to characters like Akuma or any other character factually above him or that his winsand feats arent as impressive as they are in comparison to jin,thats not just me saying,but a tons of other people as well and they do their research for them
 
When those that argued against me give legit evidence or anything worthy or true that makes him stronger then jin then i will admit,till that day i still see nothing like that,so it stands as it always been Jin beats Ryu,opinions from those like you or reliance on a wiki isnt proof,especially that this wiki has rules nobody uses in debating
 
Except we did, you just refuse to accept them as fact my dude lol.
 
My dude you and the others didnt prove crap,you didnt tell me any fact,you just wank ryu and give him too much credit and you straight up make up lies and garbage scaling

Just cuz ryu fought akuma and oro doesnt mean he scales to them,stop with this wanking,thats like saying wolverine wins against anyone that wasnt hulk or juggernaut level as he fought them many times,that ammounts to zero pal and with bison i already told you he said about having the power to defeat necalli mothing regarding his power

Get educated on the series before you pick up an argument,you clearly have no knowledge at all
 
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