Ryomen Sukuna (JJK) vs Meruem (HXH)

[Undylan]

Two Shonen Villains who are both kings and are most feared in their series. Who would win?

Pre-rose Meruem and Full Power Sukuna keys are used. The two are both High 7-C.

Sukuna is using Itadori as an vessel. Speed is equalized. Location is Shibuya.

Sukuna: 1 (Mickey1940)

Meruem: 1 (Arkenis)

Kamen Rider Kuuga comes in and solos:

 

[Dinamic8000]

I would say Sukuna has an advantage due to the superior regen, higher range and the fact that Meruem starts without Ryu and Ko, although he would most likely recognize his opponent strength and activate it ASAP

Would Sukuna domain expansion neutralizes Nen?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sukuna's profile is outdated as ****. Bro is only 7-C

 

[Undylan]

Sukuna's profile is outdated as ****. Bro is only 7-C

Oh, well they're both around 7-C anyways. So it doesn't matter.

 

[Undylan]

I would say Sukuna has an advantage due to the superior regen, higher range and the fact that Meruem starts without Ryu and Ko, although he would most likely recognize his opponent strength and activate it ASAP

Would Sukuna domain expansion neutralizes Nen?

Not sure. I do think if Sukuna's DE is used. Meruem might survive but not sure he'll survive an attack directly after the DE where Sukuna uses his fire arrow attack next.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Is there a way for Meruem to detect/sense any of Sukuna's slashes and/or cleaves?

 

[Mickey1940]

doesn't Cleave adjust itself with Cursed Energy in order to guarantee a 1 shot

Meruem is strong enough for Sukuna to warrant using Malevolent Shrine, in which case he shreds Meruem in a blender

only thing Meruem has going for him is I assume AP since idk how JJK was revised, but Cleave and Open just 1 shot

if Meruem gets close and eats part of him, he dies since consuming parts of his body is meant to be massively toxic, with Yuji and Megumi being the only exceptions since Yuji has plot armor and Megumi was intentionally possessed. Meruem does resist the Rose Bomb, but Sukuna's poisons should be different enough since it's most likely based on Cursed Energy instead of Chemistry, meaning Meruem should still succumb to its effects eventually
Even if he resists the poison, Meruem wouldn't be able to copy Sukuna's abilities without eating a large portion of Sukuna's body, meaning although he will get stronger, he shouldn't be able to use Cleave, Dismantle, Open, or Malevolent Shrine. not that it would matter anyways since Sukuna has RCT and Hollow Wicker Basket

overall Meruem just gets wiped off the face of the planet with Malevolent Shrine and there's nothing he can do about it

Sukuna wins

 

[Undylan]

Shall I add that as a vote?

 

[Mickey1940]

Shall I add that as a vote?

Yes

 

[Arkenis]

The two are both High 7-C.

Meruem just uses Ryo and Ko and one shots.

its a 10.69x difference.

doesn't Cleave adjust itself with Cursed Energy in order to guarantee a 1 shot

A one hit only when he's touching the person, otherwise the attack won't be fatal.

overall Meruem just gets wiped off the face of the planet with Malevolent Shrine and there's nothing he can do about it

He evades it, runs off just like Gojo tried only this time he can cover several kms in a second

Another thing is Ren just incapping Sukuna since he doesn't resist madness aspect of it

 

[Arkenis]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

Meruem just uses Ryo and Ko and one shots.

its a 10.69x difference.

RCT says nope to that unless Meruem punches him in the face

except that doesn't work either since Sukuna can regenerate his brain as well

A one hit only when he's touching the person, otherwise the attack won't be fatal.

Meruem wouldn't know to literally never get hit by Sukuna in order to avoid Cleave, as Sukuna spams this in character

Even if you argue that Meruem can avoid it with his precognition, he can't really do anything to stop it since Dismantle still gets the job done, and both Cleave and Dismantle are invisible to everyone, even other sorcerers. The only person we know who can see his slashes is Gojo due to the Six eyes, and Meruem's senses aren't nearly on his level, and not to mention, Malevolent shrine spams both constantly and continuously

Not to mention, if Sukuna has Mahoraga in this fight, World Slicing Dismantle would still just 1 shot Meruem regardless

He evades it, runs off just like Gojo tried only this time he can cover several kms in a second

Another thing is Ren just incapping Sukuna since he doesn't resist madness aspect of it

Sukuna was able to withstand nearly 10 full seconds in Unlimited Void, even though 0.2 seconds is enough to completely immobilize/paralyze the likes of Jogo, Hanami, and Mahito, as well as everyone else in the train station. It's made pretty clear that Sukuna's mind and mental is much harder to impact than the average combatant.

Not to mention, this isn't something Meruem spams on the regular, as Netero, a character who was heavily affected by Meruem's fear aura, was still able to throw hands with him and eventually Rose Bomb him after. If Meruem had the aura constantly, Netero wouldn't be able to do anything and the fight wouldn't have happened.

If Meruem fears Sukuna and tries to merc him, Sukuna just regens and immediately uses Malevolent Shrine out of desperation, meaning Meruem just gets blended into a smoothie off the bat. Meruem has no prior knowledge nor means to realize what Sukuna can do, especially since AP wise, Sukuna isn't a threat whatsoever

 

[That_moron2]

Sukuna's profile is outdated as ****. Bro is only 7-C

Explain.

 

[Arkenis]

RCT says nope to that unless Meruem punches him in the face

So he punches his head off.

except that doesn't work either since Sukuna can regenerate his brain as well

That's wrong. In context he's regenerating part of his brain not his entire brain. Its the same thing Gojo's doing, they can not survive without their brain.

Meruem wouldn't know to literally never get hit by Sukuna in order to avoid Cleave, as Sukuna spams this in character

He isn't gonna let Sukuna just touch him.

Not to mention, if Sukuna has Mahoraga in this fight, World Slicing Dismantle would still just 1 shot Meruem regardless

I really do gotta change Sukuna's page so ya don't keep arguing this way for a context dependent hax lmao.

Sukuna was able to withstand nearly 10 full seconds in Unlimited Void, even though 0.2 seconds is enough to completely immobilize/paralyze the likes of Jogo, Hanami, and Mahito, as well as everyone else in the train station. It's made pretty clear that Sukuna's mind and mental is much harder to impact than the average combatant.

Are you arguing for resistance to madness type 3....? Please tell me how a very limited resistance to information type 1 allows someone to resist type 3 madness.

Not to mention, this isn't something Meruem spams on the regular, as Netero, a character who was heavily affected by Meruem's fear aura, was still able to throw hands with him and eventually Rose Bomb him after. If Meruem had the aura constantly, Netero wouldn't be able to do anything and the fight wouldn't have happened.

He used it here and scared off Netero. I didn't even argue constantly lmao.

Spoiler

 

[Mickey1940]

So he punches his head off.

Mid Regen still says no to that

That's wrong. In context he's regenerating part of his brain not his entire brain. Its the same thing Gojo's doing, they can not survive without their brain.

Meruem would need to splatter his brain into nonexistence for RCT to not work, especially on Sukuna's level, as Sukuna wasn't struggling with regenerating his brain, unlike Gojo. Meruem doesn't have the means of doing that unless he Rage Blasts off the bat, which he doesn't do in character

He isn't gonna let Sukuna just touch him.

except Sukuna can apply Cleave to any of his physical hits, and they both fight CQC in character. Saying that Meruem isn't going to be touched a single time is unrealistic

I really do gotta change Sukuna's page so ya don't keep arguing this way for a context dependent hax lmao.

Sukuna still has means of cutting Meruem even without Mahoraga's adaptation. It's not like that's his lifeline, and I'm aware he doesn't have Mahoraga here

and yeah I understand that his World Slicing Dismantle was specifically used to counter Gojo's Infinity, but it was implied that he could still use it after his fight with Gojo, as he probably used it against Higuruma I think

Are you arguing for resistance to madness type 3....? Please tell me how a very limited resistance to information type 1 allows someone to resist type 3 madness.

His Madness Type 3 is tied to his Post Rose key, not Pre Rose. Pre Rose just has rather basic Fear Manipulation

He used it here and scared off Netero. I didn't even argue constantly lmao.

Spoiler

Man facetanked First and Third Hand before using his Ren aura, then never used it again and continued to facetank Ninety Ninth before actually attacking

If he does that against Sukuna he's gonna get sliced in half pretty much immediately


As a side note, I do want to mention that Meruem's resistance to Fear Manipulation is pretty dogshit in his Pre-Rose key, as he was paralyzed in fear by Netero, despite the fact that Netero basically had no aura left to use Ren. Meruem was paralyzed in fear from an auraless old man whom he has vastly superior Nen and stats, and was bodying literally minutes before. Sukuna's passive Fear aura should be superior to Netero's at that moment, so what's causing Sukuna from literally doing the same thing and then slashing Meruem to pieces?

 

[Arkenis]

Mid Regen still says no to that

Yeah it needs to be removed lmao.

His Madness Type 3 is tied to his Post Rose key, not Pre Rose. Pre Rose just has rather basic Fear Manipulation

No ren is madness 3 on nen page.

As a side note, I do want to mention that Meruem's resistance to Fear Manipulation is pretty dogshit in his Pre-Rose key, as he was paralyzed in fear by Netero, despite the fact that Netero basically had no aura left to use Ren. Meruem was paralyzed in fear from an auraless old man whom he has vastly superior Nen and stats, and was bodying literally minutes before. Sukuna's passive Fear aura should be superior to Netero's at that moment, so what's causing Sukuna from literally doing the same thing and then slashing Meruem to pieces?

That so clearly wasn't a regular fear aura lmao. It was amplified by the bottomless malice in Netero's heart at that moment, that's literally the whole point of that scene, that during this Netero was able to tap into that malice and unleash it. And saying Sukuna's is superior is hilarious. Sukuna doesn't cause anyone fear on his level, he only caused that fear to inferior opponents, like vastly inferior on a spiritual level and even from his curse energy amount. You're comparing apples to oranges unironically.

Also Meruem madness/fear haxxed people on Sukuna's level that being Neferpitou who would also fear/madness hax Sukuna. Stop tryna argue this until you got madness type 3 resistance on page for the characters.

Nefer:
Enhanced Fear Manipulation (Pitou's aura terrified seasoned Nen users like Kite, Gon, and Killua) and Enhanced Madness Manipulation (Type 3; Even with Ten, Pitou is able to induce insanity)

Meruem:
Enhanced Fear Manipulation (His Ren was so powerful it made Netero, Zeno & Pitou feel as though time had stopped[4])

Ren:
Ren - Fear Manipulation, Limited Paralysis Inducement, Madness Manipulation (Type 3) and Limited Death Manipulation (It has been stated that without Ten, a Nen User is capable of inducing crippling fear, paralyzing people, causing insanity and even outright killing them with Nen alone, this is through malicious aura attacks), Statistics Amplification (Ren also enhances physical characteristics)

except Sukuna can apply Cleave to any of his physical hits, and they both fight CQC in character. Saying that Meruem isn't going to be touched a single time is unrealistic

Did you forget the insane gap in skill between these two? Meruem's casually predicting, dodging, and developing a means to target Netero's biases in combat and this was all accomplished in minutes with them unleashing thousands of attacks, something Sukuna is incapable of and has never shown close to such a feat. Sukuna would attempt Dismantle once and Sukuna would infer from the hand movements that unleashes a slashing attack, amplify himself with ryo and ko and dodge Sukuna's further attempts of tryna fire a slash off. So yeah I am saying Meruem would never be touched by Sukuna enough to do any damage.

Shit not to mention the vast difference in ap here either, one attack would ragdoll Sukuna, we already saw what Red could do and what Gojo just punching him could do.

 

[Arkenis]

I am voting Meruem if it wasn't clear.

 

[Popbum]

Following

 

[Mickey1940]

Yeah it needs to be removed lmao.

Ngl kinda agree, it's probably like a lower level of Mid Regen, like he can survive parts of his brain destroyed, but not all of it? Im not too sure myself

No ren is madness 3 on nen page.

Not all examples of Ren can cause Madness Type 3 in the series. The profile simply states that certain users, like Post Rose Meruem and Pitou, are capable of wielding Ren to such an extent. Not everyone who can use Ren can use Madness Type 3

That so clearly wasn't a regular fear aura lmao. It was amplified by the bottomless malice in Netero's heart at that moment, that's literally the whole point of that scene, that during this Netero was able to tap into that malice and unleash it. And saying Sukuna's is superior is hilarious. Sukuna doesn't cause anyone fear on his level, he only caused that fear to inferior opponents, like vastly inferior on a spiritual level and even from his curse energy amount. You're comparing apples to oranges unironically.

Netero's profile states that it was generated by his Ren, which doesn't make any sense since at this point he had no aura left to utilize Ren, but I can understand if he used his Fear Manip through different means
And I said Sukuna's is superior since his is basically just the same thing as normal Ren (as in, similar effects of Paralysis and Fear Manip), as opposed to Netero literally just looking scary. His is obviously not superior to Post Rose Meruem

Also Meruem madness/fear haxxed people on Sukuna's level that being Neferpitou who would also fear/madness hax Sukuna. Stop tryna argue this until you got madness type 3 resistance on page for the characters.

Pre-Rose Meruem still doesn't have Type 3. Sukuna has resistance to the Paralysis caused by Fear Manipulation, and he can act accordingly

Nefer:
Enhanced Fear Manipulation (Pitou's aura terrified seasoned Nen users like Kite, Gon, and Killua) and Enhanced Madness Manipulation (Type 3; Even with Ten, Pitou is able to induce insanity)

Meruem:
Enhanced Fear Manipulation (His Ren was so powerful it made Netero, Zeno & Pitou feel as though time had stopped[4])

Nefer having Type 3 doesn't matter since Meruem doesn't have it. You could argue that he upscales from it, but there's no explicit proof that he does

Did you forget the insane gap in skill between these two? Meruem's casually predicting, dodging, and developing a means to target Netero's biases in combat and this was all accomplished in minutes with them unleashing thousands of attacks, something Sukuna is incapable of and has never shown close to such a feat. Sukuna would attempt Dismantle once and Sukuna would infer from the hand movements that unleashes a slashing attack, amplify himself with ryo and ko and dodge Sukuna's further attempts of tryna fire a slash off. So yeah I am saying Meruem would never be touched by Sukuna enough to do any damage.

Shit not to mention the vast difference in ap here either, one attack would ragdoll Sukuna, we already saw what Red could do and what Gojo just punching him could do.

As much as I do agree that Meruem can easily dance around Sukuna after a while,:
1. Assuming that Meruem is just gonna ultra instinct dodge literally everything from the get go without prior knowledge makes no sense. He would probably understand Sukuna's abilities rather quickly, but those abilities are capable of slicing Meruem in half and instantly killing him, so he'll literally need to read him off the bat in order to efficiently evade everything, especially without any regeneration. Not to mention, Meruem in character facetanks a lot of things. He straight up took First, Third, Ninety Ninth, and Zero hand without dodging any of it, despite the fact that he could essentially read Netero like a book and kill him whenever he wanted. Meruem did this because he could afford to do so, as he's far too durable for Netero to damage. Sukuna is MUCH different, as all of his abilities are capable of severely injuring Meruem simply due to how they work, or in Open's case, due to it's power. Meruem really can't afford to take a hit unless he wants to lose a limb, and without regen he'll be in trouble for the rest of the match
2. This straight up doesn't work with Malevolent Shrine. There's no reason for Meruem to instantly run away from Malevolent Shrine's range as once again, he doesn't have prior knowledge, and even having an understanding of Sukuna's Cleave and Dismantle doesn't help him understand the nature of Malevolent Shrine. Sukuna without knowledge has no reason NOT to use this here if he sees that Meruem has an efficient read on Cleave and Dismantle, and once he does Meruem will get blended like a smoothie almost immediately due to the sure hit nature of the technique and the fact that Sukuna can open his domain extremely quickly
3. Dismantle looks like this. He's not slashing. Kinda a small nitpick, though so you can feel free to ignore this point if you don't care about the specific hand signs.

 

[BadSystems]

Dismantle gets weaker at long range, and at close range it seems like Meruem has a massive AP advantage with his amps. I'm not sure about Malevolent Shrine, maybe that could kill him?

 

[Mickey1940]

Dismantle gets weaker at long range, and at close range it seems like Meruem has a massive AP advantage with his amps. I'm not sure about Malevolent Shrine, maybe that could kill him?

Dismantle doesn't get weaker at long ranges, and Malevolent Shrine spams both Dismantle and Cleave, the latter of which adjusts its power to guarantee it cuts through someone, so Meruem gets blended

 

[BadSystems]

Dismantle doesn't get weaker at long ranges, and Malevolent Shrine spams both Dismantle and Cleave, the latter of which adjusts its power to guarantee it cuts through someone, so Meruem gets blended

Dismantle does get weaker at long range. Kusakabe says so when he remarks that a point-blank dismantle would be instant death, right after tanking a far-range dismantle with Simple Domain.

 

[Arkenis]

Dismantle does get weaker at long range. Kusakabe says so when he remarks that a point-blank dismantle would be instant death, right after tanking a far-range dismantle with Simple Domain.

Yeah cleave can only be activated when he touches his opponent too.
That's why he's always touching them to deliver fatal wounds

So basically Sukuna has to get in close or else he'll just be sending out H7C cuts which won't harm Meruem being 10x above them and in close range Meruem can hit him with his tail or simply land a punch first which he'll have to heal from. Realistically since this won't be like Netero vs Meruem, he will go for a fatal blow to his head.

Malevolent Shrine spams both Dismantle and Cleave

This idea that he'll just pop domain isn't true. When fighting strong people, he'll want to get to see how powerful they are and what they can do, that'll give Meruem more than enough time to get his hits in, that being thousands of them and just several of them will kill him.

 

[Undylan]

I am voting Meruem if it wasn't clear.

Vote counted.

 

[Popbum]

Meruem not having type 3 madness manipulation is weird.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Meruem slaps FRA.

 

[Robo432343]

Meruem FRA

 

[Mickey1940]

Yeah cleave can only be activated when he touches his opponent too.
That's why he's always touching them to deliver fatal wounds

So basically Sukuna has to get in close or else he'll just be sending out H7C cuts which won't harm Meruem being 10x above them and in close range Meruem can hit him with his tail or simply land a punch first which he'll have to heal from. Realistically since this won't be like Netero vs Meruem, he will go for a fatal blow to his head.

yeah cleave is melee, but he said that Dismantle gets weaker at long range which hasn't ever been stated

In melee combat Meruem doesn't have the knowledge or motivation to just blow his head off in one hit, and if he doesn't completely eradicate Sukuna's brain, he just regenerates and activates Malevolent Shrine

This idea that he'll just pop domain isn't true. When fighting strong people, he'll want to get to see how powerful they are and what they can do, that'll give Meruem more than enough time to get his hits in, that being thousands of them and just several of them will kill him.

If Dismantle is bouncing off of Meruem like a trampoline then there's no reason to assume he's not gonna go for his Domain Expansion siunce he literally can't do anything else, especially if Meruem starts bodying him in CQC

 

[Popbum]

yeah cleave is melee, but he said that Dismantle gets weaker at long range which hasn't ever been stated

In melee combat Meruem doesn't have the knowledge or motivation to just blow his head off in one hit, and if he doesn't completely eradicate Sukuna's brain, he just regenerates and activates Malevolent Shrine

If Dismantle is bouncing off of Meruem like a trampoline then there's no reason to assume he's not gonna go for his Domain Expansion siunce he literally can't do anything else, especially if Meruem starts bodying him in CQC

I mean mere did tail whip that one person head off in the field.

 

[Arkenis]

I mean mere did tail whip that one person head off in the field.

It was two people and he did it to the ants too before lmao. Dude just kills weak people. He also reveled in the fact he killed a girl who could've surpassed him in some aspect, so its likely he'd have the same thought seeing Sukuna's aura and want to snuff him out.

In melee combat Meruem doesn't have the knowledge or motivation to just blow his head off in one hit, and if he doesn't completely eradicate Sukuna's brain, he just regenerates and activates Malevolent Shrine

We know techs are stored in parts of the brain, Meruem could end up hitting that part and rendering him unable to do Domain while he rcts, even if he could rct half his brain missing which knowng how rct works its unlikely.

If Dismantle is bouncing off of Meruem like a trampoline then there's no reason to assume he's not gonna go for his Domain Expansion siunce he literally can't do anything else, especially if Meruem starts bodying him in CQC

I just don't see Sukuna popping domain like that. Especially not in this key, where he's got TS, his own ct, fuga, chants. He's the type to engage with strong opponents figuring out what they have to offer. He was fascinated by Higuruma using domain amp and switching amp to ct quickly, seeing Meruem, overflowing with power and an odd aura to him he's definitely gonna test his powers out first.

 

[Popbum]

Ye I wasn’t sure if he’d done it to multiple ppl but this confirmed meruem commonly going for head as an instant kill option so sukuna regen may not be as useful initially. Honestly leaning toward meruem but I’ve kinda just skimming threw the arguments so I’ll have to go back and read them.